Who's that Ref??

[ScoobysMom]

Boards been slow, I've been going through old pics can you name that ref? Forget it having trouble with the upload

[mamachase]

Speaking of refs…….here is a wrestling mom gone wild story…

We have all heard about crazy wrestling dads and coaches getting thrown out of tournaments, but how often do moms get out of control to the point of being ejected from a tournament? I have been ejected from a tournament, sad but true. Not a very proud moment for me as a parent.

….it happened about two years ago at freestyle state; Jimmy was 14 and wrestling in the finals. The match was tied with only a few seconds left and Jimmy pushes his opponent out, but the ref gave the point to his opponent. I was livid! First off, there was only one ref mat side (they were short staffed) and secondly, the refs’ glasses were on the top of his head instead of on his face. Well, I proceeded to give the ref my opinion on his very bad call, and told him where he should wear his glasses. The next thing I knew, I was being escorted out of the building by Mr. Reynolds (who by the way, is a very nice man).When the tournament was over, the look of disappointment on Jimmy’s face as he approached the car was enough to kill. The disappointment was not because of his loss, it was because of me.

He said, “Why did you do that? Your outburst did not change the outcome of the match. The only thing you accomplished was embarrassing yourself and me.”
He then said, “Mom I just want you to know that I apologized to the official for your outburst, I then went over to the head table, told them what you said and ask them to eject you from the tournament.” I was horrified that my own flesh and blood would have me, his mother, ejected from the tournament, yet at the same time I was so very proud of him for being a better person than me.

Sometimes children are so wise… we should learn from them. I never want to see that look of disappointment in my son’s eyes again.

[SeekNDestroy]

Lol, that's a teamkill right there.

[NIref]

Well, the holier-than-thou attitude exsists in every facet of athletics.

I am glad you got bounced, where do you get the right to approach an official? You are a parent, not a coach, not an athlete. You paid your $5 dollars to sit in the stands and cheer on your child, not accost officials. That makes the sport a travesty.

Do you know how many times I have seen this s*** happen? It sickens me. I can't count the number of times I have had a competitor (from kids to collegiate) absolutely mortified because their parent is a complete and utter moron.

That display of sportsmanship by your son makes him a gentleman and a scholar in my book.

[Jaguar]

Well, the holier-than-thou attitude exsists in every facet of athletics.

I am glad you got bounced, where do you get the right to approach an official? You are a parent, not a coach, not an athlete. You paid your $5 dollars to sit in the stands and cheer on your child, not accost officials. That makes the sport a travesty.

Do you know how many times I have seen this s*** happen? It sickens me. I can't count the number of times I have had a competitor (from kids to collegiate) absolutely mortified because their parent is a complete and utter moron.

That display of sportsmanship by your son makes him a gentleman and a scholar in my book.

Geesh, you didn't have to give her a kick while she telling us all that she made a mistake. I would hate to be your wife or kid after apologizing to you.

[Jaguar]

Speaking of refs…….here is a wrestling mom gone wild story…

We have all heard about crazy wrestling dads and coaches getting thrown out of tournaments, but how often do moms get out of control to the point of being ejected from a tournament? I have been ejected from a tournament, sad but true. Not a very proud moment for me as a parent.

….it happened about two years ago at freestyle state; Jimmy was 14 and wrestling in the finals. The match was tied with only a few seconds left and Jimmy pushes his opponent out, but the ref gave the point to his opponent. I was livid! First off, there was only one ref mat side (they were short staffed) and secondly, the refs’ glasses were on the top of his head instead of on his face. Well, I proceeded to give the ref my opinion on his very bad call, and told him where he should wear his glasses. The next thing I knew, I was being escorted out of the building by Mr. Reynolds (who by the way, is a very nice man).When the tournament was over, the look of disappointment on Jimmy’s face as he approached the car was enough to kill. The disappointment was not because of his loss, it was because of me.

He said, “Why did you do that? Your outburst did not change the outcome of the match. The only thing you accomplished was embarrassing yourself and me.”
He then said, “Mom I just want you to know that I apologized to the official for your outburst, I then went over to the head table, told them what you said and ask them to eject you from the tournament.” I was horrified that my own flesh and blood would have me, his mother, ejected from the tournament, yet at the same time I was so very proud of him for being a better person than me.

Sometimes children are so wise… we should learn from them. I never want to see that look of disappointment in my son’s eyes again.

Great story! I have sadly been there too. Just once in the heat of a DVC dual meet match up (West Aurora and Wheaton North). I hate to say it, but West Aurora has some parents who are just relentless. It is only a few, but they make us all look bad. We had dual in our own gym. We were the favorite to win, but WN came to wrestle. Coach Holland had them pumped, and they did what they needed to. Our guys were a little sloppy. It didn't help that the calls appeared to all be going their way. The usual suspects started riding the ref; and it become apparent that the ref began to give all the close calls to WN. I finally turned around to the parents who were riding the ref and told them in impolite words to stop it. No sooner had I turned around, then the ref made a call against us, in the exact same situation as he had made a call for them in the prior match. I threw my clip board down and stood up. I didn't even say anything, but the ref turned and, in the fashion of a baseball umpire, tossed me right out of the gym. He probably thought I was the one riding him. It wasn't me proudest moment.

[NIref]

No, I just don't think spectators have any rights in the gym. It is a prvilige, often abused.

Honestly, I find the demeanor of spectators somewhat hilarious. It is similar to how monkeys act when they first discover tools. When parents make jerks of themselves, I have a hearty chuckle at their expense, then let karma take the wheel.

[Neuquafan]

No, I just don't think spectators have any rights in the gym. It is a prvilige, often abused.

Honestly, I find the demeanor of spectators somewhat hilarious. It is similar to how monkeys act when they first discover tools. When parents make jerks of themselves, I have a hearty chuckle at their expense, then let karma take the wheel.

I don't disagree with much of what you wrote -- except for coming down so hard on someone who already came down hard on themselves...

This is why EVERYONE I know thinks as highly as they do of Jimmy Chase. He's a great competitor and does this sport proud everytime he shows up. We should ALL be rooting for him when he isn't matched against a son or teammate. He does Illinois proud. Everyone knows this...

One thing to add to the whole discussion though... PARENTS aren't the only ones to be held to a high level of discipline and demeanor. The referees I've watched (albeit only over the past three years) have many times done as much to provoke bad things from onlookers as they've been subjected to untoward behavior...

I've watched refs take things personally (which they shouldn't no matter how egregious); act out vindictively; be spiteful; and generally do all they can to ESCALATE a situation rather than difuse it...

Our kids in our schools are all expected to restrain themselves in the face of any verbal abuse -- shouldn't officials be held to at least the SAME standard if not a higher one?

[BARR]

NIref... you are making me have a hearty chuckle. Thank you for a good laugh today.

[mamachase]

Well, the holier-than-thou attitude exsists in every facet of athletics.

I am glad you got bounced, where do you get the right to approach an official? You are a parent, not a coach, not an athlete. You paid your $5 dollars to sit in the stands and cheer on your child, not accost officials. That makes the sport a travesty.

Do you know how many times I have seen this s*** happen? It sickens me. I can't count the number of times I have had a competitor (from kids to collegiate) absolutely mortified because their parent is a complete and utter moron.

That display of sportsmanship by your son makes him a gentleman and a scholar in my book.
Sounds to me that you have never been to an off-season freestyle tournament. I am a parent, but I was also the only one in his corner, videotaping, coaching (yelling moves that are clearly wrong), water-boy, as well as blood cleaner upper (trainer).I think that covers all my duties that day. Oh, and yes I do have a bronze level coaching card, which means absolutely nothing because I acted inappropriately. You clearly missed my point………. So I will explain.

Wrestling is an intense sport which is part of the attraction. Throw in a team rivalry and it most likely gets heated. Just like the GBN/Montini sectional meet did this past spring. Is it okay? Absolutely not, but it happens all the time. My point was that it happened to me and luckily, my son being the better person reminded me that I was wrong. I admit I may not have been the best example of a parent, coach, water boy, trainer, that day, but your response to my story is not reflecting very well on officials either.

Sometimes our passion for sports or certain beliefs- whatever it may be gets the best of us and we do or say stupid things. Being able to admit our wrongs, move forward, learn and especially appreciate the wisdom of others, even if it comes from a child - is priceless!

Like Nequa Fan said, everyone is accountable for good sportsmanship, fans, coaches, athletes, and officials.:)

[Jaguar]

I don't, for a minute, think it is easy being a ref when fans are bearing down on you for no good reason (usually); but, perhaps, you don't appreciate that is sometimes not easy being a parent/coach in the heat of the moment. I got a kick this summer out of an incident that took place. I won't say where, when or who. A ref, who has officated for 20+ years at a high level, was in the coaches corner at a national event. He got mad at the calls that were being made. Said some things. Got warned. Said some more things, and got tossed out. He felt bad, of course. It happens even to the best of us "fools". Some refs could take lessons in humility as well as the average "fools" around here.

[Cry Wolf]

Hey if this is about wrestling should it be moved to that board instead of taking up valuable space on the NON wrestling board????


Just kidding. To lighten things up a bit, there are good and bad in refs, parents and coaches. The fact that people learn from their mistakes is the lesson that is to be read here. Thanks for the story mama! I appreciated it. I know everyone has had an experience in which they looked back later and learned from it.

[BARR]

Some refs could take lessons in humility as well as the average "fools" around here.

Exactly....

[Maximus]

This is a good thread so far... let me add to it

I've ref'ed a little in the fs/gr season mainly because we hardly have enough in the state. Being on "that side", even if for only a few times, it gives you a very different perspective and respect for all officials, in ANY sport. That being said, facts are, there are good refs and bad refs.

But what I can't stand the most is a ref who has the power-trip thing going on. Right or wrong, it's their way or the high way. Seen this in the IHSA and IKWF. No good at all...

[BARR]

But what I can't stand the most is a ref who has the power-trip thing going on. Right or wrong, it's their way or the high way. Seen this in the IHSA and IKWF. No good at all...

I could not agree more Max.

[Neuquafan]

But what I can't stand the most is a ref who has the power-trip thing going on. Right or wrong, it's their way or the high way. Seen this in the IHSA and IKWF. No good at all...

Yeah, that would be kinda like a guy whose in charge of a wrestling website barring somebody for no good reason without even speaking to them about it... please tell us more how this level-headed-ness should be evenly distributed...

[maddog0117]

I understand that refs in any sport gets mad when they get bashed for doing their job, in many casesa wrong (in some cases just the "unbiased view of a fan" on right calls. The fact is in things like MLB, NBA olympic sports it happens. Better yet, the other day, I went to a high school football game and I heard many boos. The refs sat there and took it. Don't go crazy over a minor thing, only go crazy if the fan goes crazy first (I know that's a realative term but I think we should all have a close judgement on that).

[DawgeatDawg2]

Yeah, that would be kinda like a guy whose in charge of a wrestling website barring somebody for no good reason without even speaking to them about it... please tell us more how this level-headed-ness should be evenly distributed...

Admin. goes above and beyond the call of duty not to ban people. I would be no where near as lenient.

[ScoobysMom]

Admin. goes above and beyond the call of duty not to ban people. I would be no where near as lenient.

I'm with you Dawg.

[Luvwrestling]

Admin. goes above and beyond the call of duty not to ban people. I would be no where near as lenient.

AGREE WITH YOU DAWG

[mamachase]

Admin. goes above and beyond the call of duty not to ban people. I would be no where near as lenient.

Ditto with the Dawg!

[mamachase]

Dawg- is that a pic of Nicole Woody in your Aviatar? lol

[mamachase]

Yeah, that would be kinda like a guy whose in charge of a wrestling website barring somebody for no good reason without even speaking to them about it... please tell us more how this level-headed-ness should be evenly distributed...

I think this could be true if you were talking about posts being deleted for no apparent reason with out speaking to them about it or being warned.

[DawgeatDawg2]

Dawg- is that a pic of Nicole Woody in your Aviatar? lol

I think.....

[mamachase]

I think the other girl is Leigh Jaynes. Caitlyn said she would never do beach, she would do mma or sambo before she would ever do BEACH! lol

[DawgeatDawg2]

I think the other girl is Leigh Jaynes. Caitlyn said she would never do beach, she would do mma or sambo before she would ever do BEACH! lol

There was a video on it. A ton of people were there.

[MR TWISTER]

I guess I understand both sides of this "issue". A parent often gets worked up and takes frustrations out on an official. It is wrong to do? There are no if and or buts about it.

I grew as an official when I learned to totally ignore ALL FANS that say anything negative. If they become a distraction to the game that I am officiating then I have them removed quietley by game management. No loud show or anything. Other than that I ignore. I know that most parents are wrong to do what they do and most don't mean half of what they say. And actually any loud or obnoxius fan that is disruptive to the flow of the game / match is also disrespectful of the sport. To get ejected (as a fan) you have got to that point. This is where I understad NIref's point.

mamachase you were not a fan that day. You was Jimmy's coach. A whole different story. Not the first coach to lose his cool with the officials.

The thing about it is in the sports I officiate 99.5 % of the time people that yell out comments from the stands are wrong about what they are complaining about. Usually they have misinterpreted a rule or situation. It always amazes me that a fan will complain and most times the coach has not said a word because he knows the official is right or understands when to make comments.

I also agree with Niref that being a fan does not buy you a pass to berate or pick on an official. He is trying to do a very difficult job. Most fans could never officiate yet they all tell the official how to do his job. If you have never officiated then you really have no clue about how difficult of a job it is. Magnify that by people constantley complaining about the job you do. Would you like someone doing that to you at your job? Of course not.

Both mamchase and Niref I understand.

[Neuquafan]

Admin. goes above and beyond the call of duty not to ban people. I would be no where near as lenient.

I couldn't agree more... the person I was originally responding to happens to be the admin of another Illinois wrestling website... one that lets people sign on as guests to post. It's common practice there for people to take personal pot shots at people and the admins to do nothing about it -- not even removing offensive posts.

Anyone that spends money to actually ADVERTISE their club on that website gets even MORE leniency in how out-of-bounds they're allowed to be... reveal your true name over at THAT OTHER website and you will have a hoard of guests taking personal potshots at you, making disapraging comments about your family and threatening your kids (yes all this actually happened)... imagine this website at its nadir point when every third word in every post had to be "brutal" and the admins just sloughed it all off in PMs saying "Pay no attention to that guy, that's just ____ being ____ ."

This site has definitely started moving in other directions (thankfully)... I think OUR admins noticed and took the appropriate steps to make this more a place wrestling people would be interested in making contributions.

The other site allows guests and sponsors to continue to run rampant over anyone "foolish" enough to represent themselves as themselves...

Funniest thing of all is how they track all the posters IP addresses and then whisper behind everyone else's back over who is really making the guest comments they see... a completely toxic environment.

Without a word or discussion the admins over there tried to ban me from THAT site... and the funny thing is they TRIED for two weeks to ban me but, being somewhat technically sophisticated myself, I was able to continue posting through use of IP Blocker software... then I grew bored and tired of wasted time and bandwidth....

I guess their admin grows tired of the inane chatter they promote there as well because he comes to illinoismatmen for serious wrestling discussion.

Back to the original point: the comments I read were hypocritical at best and needed to be called out as such IMO -- sorry for all the cross-site bicker spillover...

[ScoobysMom]

I guess I understand both sides of this "issue". A parent often gets worked up and takes frustrations out on an official. It is wrong to do? There are no if and or buts about it.

I grew as an official when I learned to totally ignore ALL FANS that say anything negative. If they become a distraction to the game that I am officiating then I have them removed quietley by game management. No loud show or anything. Other than that I ignore. I know that most parents are wrong to do what they do and most don't mean half of what they say. And actually any loud or obnoxius fan that is disruptive to the flow of the game / match is also disrespectful of the sport. To get ejected (as a fan) you have got to that point. This is where I understad NIref's point.

mamachase you were not a fan that day. You was Jimmy's coach. A whole different story. Not the first coach to lose his cool with the officials.

The thing about it is in the sports I officiate 99.5 % of the time people that yell out comments from the stands are wrong about what they are complaining about. Usually they have misinterpreted a rule or situation. It always amazes me that a fan will complain and most times the coach has not said a word because he knows the official is right or understands when to make comments.

I also agree with Niref that being a fan does not buy you a pass to berate or pick on an official. He is trying to do a very difficult job. Most fans could never officiate yet they all tell the official how to do his job. If you have never officiated then you really have no clue about how difficult of a job it is. Magnify that by people constantley complaining about the job you do. Would you like someone doing that to you at your job? Of course not.
Both mamchase and Niref I understand.

After 20 years of it you get use to it and learn to tune it out.

[maddog0117]

I like a word that Twister used "misinterpreted" rules are always not black and white and can be seen both ways, or the same interpretation can be seen from different perspectives. For instance I was in a match, 12-12 tie in a tournament. The referee said that my hands broke before the buzzer. Though I had strangers coming up to me and said that the ref was nuts. They both are quoting the same rule, they both had a good angle, and both said 2 compleatley different things. In my biased opinion they went broken, but ohnestly, I don't know, I was not lisening for the buzzer.