Please...let's think before acting

[Rob Sherrill]

The talk of expanding from two to three classes seems to be gaining momentum, on the Illinois Matmen message boards and elsewhere, faster than a speeding locomotive.

In the past week, about 70 per cent of Illinois High School Association (IHSA) member school representatives responding to an IHSA survey voted in favor of expanding wrestling from two to three classes, which would appear to provide some official endorsement of the idea.

But let’s remember that only 414 schools – about 54 per cent of the IHSA’s overall membership of 765 – responded to the survey to begin with. That puts the percentage of schools from the total membership that have actually endorsed the idea at just about 18 per cent. Doesn't look like such an overwhelming mandate now, does it?

I’ve made a couple of posts in the past week on this issue. The more I look at the way three classes would be constructed under the format the IHSA has set forth, the more I’m opposed to the idea.

Before we consider such a drastic revision to our wrestling way of life – and it would be as drastic as it gets – we need to ask ourselves three questions: First, is the two-class wrestling system in Illinois broken to begin with? If so, how? And if so, is a third class the solution?

I don’t think the two-class system is broken. In fact, I think it’s just about perfect – the best setup that any state in the nation has.

The IHSA already has laid out a blueprint for a three-class system. It would put the bottom half of the membership, in terms of “official” enrollment, in Class A, with the next quarter in Class AA and the top quarter in Class AAA.

That would leave us with between 160 and 165 schools in each of the top two classes, AAA and AA, with about 90 schools in Class A.

So what we’ve essentially done is split the current Class AA in half. The Class A ceiling would drop from its current 724 to 603, leaving Byron as the largest Class A school under the new format.

And make no mistake…this is the format we’d be stuck with. No exceptions. The IHSA is a one-size-fits-all organization when it comes to adminstering sports. We think we’re different, but the IHSA doesn’t share that view. Wrestling is just one of the 30-odd sports over which the association has oversight. I know. I’ve been on the front lines helping to fight some of those battles on behalf of wrestling in the past.

Since the number of schools isn’t increasing significantly, the IHSA could simply dictate, instead of the current 24-man bracket for Class AA, two 12-man brackets for Classes AAA and AA. The travel and scheduling hassles this would create would be devastating, particularly for the downstate Class AAA schools.

Two 12-man brackets also would be likely because, from a wrestling standpoint, the Assembly Hall is at capacity. Any additional wrestling – meaning more than 36 wrestlers at a weight qualifying for the state tournament – would require a three-day state tournament. Good luck selling that to your friendly neighborhood administrator…or to the University of Illinois.

No additional wrestlers…but up to 84 additional medals, which would increase by perhaps one-third the length of the finals for awards presentation. That’s why Michigan’s state finals are more than four hours long…wrestling and awards presentation for wrestlers in four classes.

All this likely won’t solve the question we should be asking: How do we increase interest in high school wrestling in Illinois?

The answer, folks, is to bring more schools into the sport. And three classes…not these three classes, at least...won’t do it.

Here’s why.

Class AAA includes a total of 191 schools. Of those that are not all-girls schools, only six don’t already have wrestling programs. Of those six, four are in the Chicago Public League and a fifth is a Chicago charter school. The other: Benet Academy, located in Lisle.

Of the 191 Class AA schools that are not all-girls schools, only 21 don’t already have wrestling programs – and 11 of those are Chicago charter or specialty schools that are unlikely program candidates, with another two in the Chicago Public League.

That means that, in terms of new programs, Classes AAA and AA are virtually tapped out. The fans of programs in those classes already are attending the state meet in the same numbers they’ll be attending this year, five years from now, or 20 years from now.

The growth potential, folks, is at the other end of the spectrum.

There are 218 high schools in Illinois with enrollments of 300 or less. Only 14 – less than 10 per cent – host wrestling programs. Another 18 are secondary schools to co-op programs that bring the combined enrollment of the host schools, in most cases, to 500 or more.

Specifically:

300 or less – 218 total schools, 32 involved in wrestling
301-400 – 53 schools, 18 involved in wrestling
401-500 – 47 schools, 21 involved in wrestling
501-600 – 53 schools, 35 involved in wrestling
601-724 – 47 schools, 29 involved in wrestling

Go to any state tournament in any sport. It’s the small schools that shut down the town and bring the fans to the games.

Those are the fans we need to bring to our sport. Will a Class A that’s essentially been ignored by the new format - reduced from a limit of a little over 700 to a little over 600 - accomplish that?

Not going to happen.

The 35,000 folks who have come to the Assembly Hall every year since the institution of the two-class system are going to come whether we have one class, two classes, three classes or 10. Where’s the new blood going to come from? How do we get those thousands of potential new fans interested and involved – first in their own communities, then at a state level?

I don’t know the answer. But it took us 34 years to get to where we stand now. We can certainly afford to take a step back and consider some real solutions…instead of engaging in a knee-jerk reaction that could ruin the nation’s best state tournament.

I hope that’s how we proceed.

[Paul89]

1. it's time for those administrators who did not respond to the survey to let their voice be heard - one way or another - the percentages don't support the change, but if schools are unwilling to take the time to get involved then they brought this one by their inaction.

2. never once did i believe the move to 3 classes was about growing the sport and increasing participation. that would be nice, but anyone could see that this new plan wasn't about that.

3. three classes work in some states - that's fine for them. the 2 class system works fine in Illinois. just leave it alone.
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[agdfan]

Mr. Sherrill,

As always, I respect your vast knowledge of our sport and truly value your opinion. While I am happy with the 2 class system, the argument on these boards seems to resort back to diluted competition and a "real" state champion more often than not and I am absolutely not in favor of a 1 class system as described by many. I appreciate your acknowledgment of the problems facing small school wrestling programs. It is not "medals for everyone" (as some have suggested) that we strive for, but simply the survival of these programs. The conference Aledo is in does not even acknowledge wrestling as a sport as Aledo is the only conference school that offers it. We are not alone in this and although the number of programs in Class AA is at an all time high, they are at an all time low in the Class A schools, with more very small schools dropping their programs every year. The solution? I don't have one either, and quite frankly, IHSA won't care what we, the wrestling community, have to say or recommend. The small school programs will continue to struggle until eventually they dissolve and the 1 class supporters will prevail as there won't be enough wrestling programs to support 2 classes. Good in the long run for Illinois wrestling? I don't think so.
Sincerely,
Gail Rush

[wrestle42]

Each year before the wrestling season starts we know how many schools we will have wrestling. Take that number and devide it in half. 50/50 split by number of students attending school. 2 class system and a 50/50 split. 2008 Series: Total @ 407, Class A @ 113, Class AA 294. Make it 203 in class A and 204 in class AA.

[3D'S]

Each year before the wrestling season starts we know how many schools we will have wrestling. Take that number and devide it in half. 50/50 split by number of students attending school. 2 class system and a 50/50 split. 2008 Series: Total @ 407, Class A @ 113, Class AA 294. Make it 203 in class A and 204 in class AA.

I have always though the same as you 42. Why can't it be an even amount of schools for a two class sytem?

Rob said that 414 schools responded to the IHSA survey. If there are only 407 schools that have a wrestling program (which 42 mentioned), maybe the schools that don't have wrestling chose not to respond at all because it "does not apply". So it may be possible that it is a 70% endorsemnet of the 3 class system by the schools that matter. Therefore I dont think that Rob can assume that only 18% endorse the idea.

[Jaguar]

In spite of all my arguments in favor of a three class system, I do not support the system that is being proposed by the IHSA. Although I could live with splitting the current Class AA in half, none of it makes sense to me if the number of wrestlers who qualify for state remains the same, even with the increase in classes. That plan counters the benefits I see that a three class system might provide. It ultimately is not about the number of medals that are given out in my opinion; it is about the exposure of more wrestlers, parents and fans to the post season festivities and about the opportunity for more of Illinois' talent to have an opportunity to shine. That will not happen with the proposed plan. However, I do see Gail's point about the smallest class of schools. Gail, do you think that lowering the threshold for the smallest class would spur on the creation of new programs in that class?

[agdfan]

You know, Jag, I don't know. I do know that splitting it in half will only mask the problem rather than fix it. I think you will continue to see small schools dropping their programs, maybe even at a faster rate since, and Illinois ending up with 2 classes of the original Class AA. Maybe the solution lies with the kids clubs, but it is hard to create a kids club in a school district that offers no jr. high or high school program. I also think the declining programs are in part due to consolidation of schools, and maybe when all is said and done with that, the enrollment of the newly created school districts will be higher and thus evening things out. But how long will that take and will any of these programs survive? I hate to say it, but the only solution I see right now is making the Class A a little less competitive, Maybe more schools will see some success, and as I said before, success breeds participation. I just don't know. Another point, it is very costly for a small school to start a wrestling program...investments of not only coaches saleries, but mats, possibly space remodeling for practice, etc...while a new basketball program needs a gym. Put that on the agenda of an already financially troubled small school district and the answer will be no. Again...I don't know...I wish I did...:(

[eagle]

If you want more small schools to have wrestling they have to be able to field a full team. For class A change to 10 weight classes.

No other sport needs 14 guys to fill a team. Even football can compete with less. I know it sounds like we would be losing opportunities but more schools would be willing to compete if they could field a full line-up.

How many class A teams currently fill a line-up?

How many class AA teams consistenly have a full line-up?

[abelincolnwrestler]

I think the 3 class system would be great. It does not help class A but it would help the Dixon's, Bloomington's, Lincoln's, etc of the world and give them a chance to build on some success... The sad fact is 80% of the people in our town do not know how good or bad our team is but they do read the headlines and know we have success in wrestling and they have a positive image of the sport because of that. Success/positive headlines equals more kids that want to be apart of the program...

[Jaguar]

If you want more small schools to have wrestling they have to be able to field a full team. For class A change to 10 weight classes.

No other sport needs 14 guys to fill a team. Even football can compete with less. I know it sounds like we would be losing opportunities but more schools would be willing to compete if they could field a full line-up.

How many class A teams currently fill a line-up?

How many class AA teams consistenly have a full line-up?
Now that makes some sense. I have heard people advocate dropping weights across the board, which I do not support. But, maybe it makes sense for the smaller schools. The only problem with that is that the wieghts that are dropped will likely be weights that some schools have kids at that want to wrestle. 103 is often a weight that is on the "chopping block" in these discussion. But, if a school has 103 pounder, then a kid looses out. There are no easy answers.

[Rob Sherrill]

I've read the responses here. To date, I have yet to see a reason in favor of three classes that makes sense. Read the rationalizations. "Yeah, it wouldn't help Class A, but..." People seem to think Class AA needs to be fixed. I don't think that's the case at all. Class AA already has all the gold. It can survive just fine on its own. But all I seem to be reading here is that some people want to make the rich richer.

What exactly is the "problem" crying to be "fixed" by a third class? Not enough state placewinners? Not enough interest? The Class AA fan base is, and always will be, the size it is now. That is, until we someday have a Lincoln-Way and Plainfield school to match every direction on the compass, which adds only a handful more schools at the top.

I've been to state tournaments in close to a dozen states. Please believe me when I tell you we don't know how good we have it now. I truly believe Class AA in Illinois is the elite state tournament class in the United States, and that that's something to take pride in and to enjoy. Let's not kill the goose that lays high school wrestling's golden eggs in our state.

[AA Coach]

The problem is loss of programs because they can no longer compete with the giant Juggernaut Catholic Schools. The small AA public schools are hard pressed to get a qualifier let alone a state placer. The other sports... football, etc at their schools are thriving under the new IHSA class split. Teams are making the playoffs who never had before each year. if you are a high school athlete attending one of these schools does wresling look life a good option. It is hard enough to wrestle... then add the lowering chances of experiencing success. Wrestling has to offer something for the average kid or our sport will dry up.

[Nilly]

Maybe I didn't read everything the right way. On the IHSA website, it says Dual Team State competition. Is it possible the IHSA is going to stick with 2 classes for individual and a third class for team competition?
Just a thought.

I feel the strongest part of Mr. Sherrill's argument is the small schools need to step it up accross our state. I've been to many out of state tournaments and have found the small schools in Wisconsin and Iowa are what make those states great. I agree Illinois is lagging behind when it comes to the small schools not having wrestling. We need to somehow get programs up and running in many of our small non-participating towns.

I disagree that there needs to be a 50/50 split. That is not right at all. If you are going to 50/50 split, then are you going to add Class A qualifiers? One would think you would have to. In no way am I an expert, but how can a school like Morrison or Riverdale compete with a school that has 1200 students? It doesn't appear to be equitable to do a 50/50 split. The small school programs would get destroyed and further the problem of keeping small school wrestling programs alive and successful.

[Paul89]

The problem is loss of programs because they can no longer compete with the giant Juggernaut Catholic Schools. The small AA public schools are hard pressed to get a qualifier let alone a state placer. The other sports... football, etc at their schools are thriving under the new IHSA class split. Teams are making the playoffs who never had before each year. if you are a high school athlete attending one of these schools does wresling look life a good option. It is hard enough to wrestle... then add the lowering chances of experiencing success. Wrestling has to offer something for the average kid or our sport will dry up.

Coach,

You can't lay this all at the feet of the "juggernaut catholic schools" - and I suppose you weren't, but some small AA public schools can't past the west auroras, glenbard norths, sandburgs, OPRFs, Grants, etal. I am aware of the "inequities" between catholic and public schools, but that's just way too convenient and excuse.

take a look at the successful schools (public and private) and see the feeder programs ... not just wrestling, but football, basketball, baseball ... is the coaching/athlete develoment as good as it could be to help grow the program? The IHSA isn't goint to do anything to help schools grow their programs.

for the record, I support a more equitable split between A and AA that would give some of the smaller AA public school kids (and even some of the smaller catholic school kids) a shot at qualifying and placing.
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[Jaguar]

Rob, playing the devil's advocate, how do you view the Iowa system? They have three classes. I don't see that hurting them in the development of talent, getting recognized by college recruiters, performance on a national level, etc. They have far fewer wrestlers and schools with wrestling than Illinois. I appreciate the purity and competition level at the Illinois state tournament, but I (and the other die hard wrestling fans out there) are really a minority of people. I think that there is a general sense that Illinois has one of the tougher state tournaments in the country, but I don't see that general sense translate into giving Illinois kids more of an opportunity at the college level. I see college coaches still being enamured by the gawdy record of a 3x state champ in Iowa's small class over the Illinois kid who might have placed once on AA, even if the Illinois kid beats the Iowa kid in the offseason. That "inequity" is what leads me to support a three class system - though I do NOT support the IHSA's current proposal.

[AA Coach]

Jag- I agree that every small public school is not utilizizing their resources to the fullest. Take a look at those non Catholic Schools you mention... enrollment is sometimes 3-4x that of a small AA public... our school around 870 kids. Chicago Marist.... umm around 2000 all boys or something like that? Some of the publics you mention 2000-3000 range... some larger! If the inequity is not seen in this then someone is not looking real hard.

[Paul89]

Marist is co-ed ... has been since 2002, but I know what you are driving at.
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[Rob Sherrill]

Jag, Iowa's wrestling landscape isn't the same as we have here in Illinois. I'd have to go to a member school enrollment list and check this out, but Iowa is a bottom-heavy state when it comes to the class distribution. The fewest wrestling schools are in Class AAA, the most are in Class A. There are only about 65 AAA schools, whereas there are nearly 100 in each of the two smaller-school classes. Illinois is the opposite. It's a top-heavy state. We have more than twice as many AA schools as we have A schools. So the demographics of the two states are exactly the opposite.

That's one of the things I've written about in my W.I.N. magazine columns over the years - the fact that the states that surround Illinois have many more small schools wrestling than Illinois does. We may border Iowa, but we really have nothing in common with them in terms of the demographics of our wrestling population and culture. And that's difficult for people to understand, but it's a fact of life, and thinking that what works for them will work for us is illogical reasoning.

To counter paul89's point, nobody in Class AA has dropped the sport recently that I can see except for Kankakee. And that's obviously a school district with far more serious problems than whether they can sustain a wrestling program. There are 363 Class AA schools that are not all-girls schools, and 335 - almost 93 per cent - have wrestling programs. Almost all have had wrestling for decades - or, if they're newer schools, since they opened - and the ones that don't haven't had it, either in many years or ever. So to say that we're losing programs at all - let alone in any numbers - is simply inaccurate. In fact, central Illinois is getting stronger, with programs like Champaign Central, Peoria Woodruff, Normal Community, Canton and Taylorville, just to name a few, experiencing upswings recently. And it's not just Granite City and Edwardsville down south any more, either, with Collinsville, O'Fallon and Highland, among others, starting to put themselves on the map down that way.

I believe the only class in America that rivals the current Class AA for overall talent and sheer drama is Class AAA in Pennsylvania. Most years, that one's the best. Last year, our Class AA was better. Don't let the numbering fool you. Like Illinois, Pennsylvania only has two classes. They just happen to be numbered AAA (big schools) and AA (small schools), rather than AA and A as we have here.

[Bucksman]

Rob- I would argue that single class California and single class New Jersey are up there with 3A (big-school) PA and 2A (big-school) IL. Neither Ohio DI or DII are up there if you ask me - are they great tournaments to witness? yes. do they have great wrestlers and wrestling? yes. are either tournaments loaded as the four above? no.

As stated, the inequities inherent to Illinois wrestling are unlike that of any other state. You have one area of the state with a basic monopoly on wrestling talent, and also of the population at large. Also, as I have previously posted, even in a state like Ohio where there is a perceived "geography gap" - there is still viable competition/competitiors in four of the five sectors of the state (NW, NE, C, SW; E/SE as the weak one). You look at PA, and there is an amazing balance - Western PA, Central PA, Lehigh Valley, and Philly area all have very fertile talent areas. California has at least two areas of note - southern section and then Fresno area. New Jersey is such a compact state anyway, so it's hard to compare.

[agdfan]

Although I have used Iowa as an example, I do agree, Illinois is, unfortunately, unique. My question then is...what will help our small school programs survive, and what can be done to create more programs in the small schools that don't currently offer them?

(Rob...please pass this on...nice article in WIN, but I am biased!!)

[Joe Terronez]

I dont support another class, if it only has 12 wrestlers per class. We have ALOT OF TALENT STATEWIDE, so they should go to at least 16 qualifiers per class like Iowa, or forget it.
Yes our smaller schools have been dropping wrestling for years, but they have also been consolidating for years also. Why? For financial survival.
I may be wrong but Iowa has many NAIA, Division III, II, and I wrestling colleges, and they are some of the top in all divisions in the country! These wrestlers are mostly from Iowa, and many from other states, WHY, because they are competitive in these divisions, and it opens alot of doors for MANY GOOD AND great HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLERS TO COMPETE ON THE NEXT LEVEL. I think it has alot to do with the success the wrestlers and COMMUNITES have in the Iowa high school program.
Coming from a small AA school, the support we got correlated directly with our success. When we went to A, it increased, and when we went back to AA, the support died down as we didnt have the same success!
A few years ago we could of done well in A, but were moved to AA, and
were beaten up in the AA regional.

I'm not saying the three class system will be a cure all, but we will continue to lose on our CURRENT PATH, but as schools consolidate that didnt have wrestling, may have more money and see similiar schools have success in wrestlng their size, who knows?

Yes, we should move slowly but surely, but as I said in the beginning, without more state qualifiers, it would not be a good idea!!!!

[Pressure33]

Rob - You mention schools in central Illinois experiencing an upswing... but how many of them have produced results on the state level? Any placers? No, because they can not compete with the big dogs. These coaches are working their a$$es off for only a smaller scale of success. On a more equal scale these kids win a medal and get some real recognition. Three classes needs to be implemented for the good of all. You have not seen the destruction of AA programs yet... is that what you are waiting for to realize a change needs to happen... I hope not.

[old105]

First off, I like 2 classes. Just some thoughts.

In the same survey, the schools voted to hold a three day state track meet. I know track was already supposed to be 3 classes but they ran into some logistic problems. I read the IHSA now has a plan how to run a 3 day meet and I assume EIU was consulted. So the three day tournament doesn't seem to be a stumbling block.

Isn't their a wrestling advisory board made up of coaches, anybody know their stance?

I don't know how many old timers are out there, I am sure there were the same arguments when it went to 2 classes. Obviously there was no IM message board back then, but how passionate was that debate and say after 5 years of two classes what were the thoughts?

P.S. This blog is the best thing to happen on IM in a long time.

[Rob Sherrill]

Interesting couple of points raised here. Bucksman, Division 1 in Ohio has become a crashing bore the last five to 10 years with the dominance of St. Edward. Division 2 actually got better depthwise than Division 1 earlier this decade, but now the dominiance of Graham has taken the life out of that class, too. What's there now that's worth watching? How many of their own state records St. Edward and Graham will break this time? It's hard to believe, but everybody will be watching Division 3 because of the incredible team race brewing between Troy Christian, Marion Pleasant and Monroeville. That's a race that could grip the fans for the next few years, too.

One reason the state tournament doesn't have some of the excitement it used to has nothing to do with the number of classes. Team scoring was dropped in 1984, when the duals were added. We've missed out on some incredible team races that would have occurred in the years since. Could you imagine the excitement that would have been added to last year's AA finals - compelling and star-studded just on their own - plus a team race that had Montini, Sandburg and Glenbard North all within five points of each other going in? How would Benefiel have approached that match against Blanton if he'd had the weight of Montini's first AA team title on his shoulders? Wouldn't that drama have packed the Assembly Hall? I remember the years when Mike Manahan and I would present the rationale for bringing back team scoring to the IHSA Board of Directors. Every time it's been proposed, the Board has shot it down flat. Their reasoning is that every other sport has one state champion and that wrestling has no right to special treatment; wrestling can have either a dual or an individual state champion, but not both. Doesn't make any sense to me - about 10 states that have duals have two sets of champions - but that's always been their position.

Pressure33, the upswing at the schools I mentioned has only taken place over the last year or so, so you've got to be patient. Champaign Central significantly upgraded their schedule this year with two trips to the Chicago area and Seth Noland was a match away for Canton last year. Hononegah and Mahomet have more losses this year because they continued to upgrade theirs. Taylorville deserves some credit for a team that's gone an all-time best 17-1 after being a Springfield-area doormat for most of its existence. Sure, their schedule wasn't very tough, but they have a reason to feel good about themselves now, and maybe this will inspire them to start wrestling better people in the next couple of years.

The only schools I can think of that have given up hosting programs in the last five years or so are Kankakee and Eastland, and Eastland is at least part of a co-op. I'm challenging you to name any. Sure, schools like Pleasant Plains and Farmington and Spoon River Valley and Galena don't have wrestling any more, but those programs - and programs of their ilk - disappeared 20 years ago. Not any time recently.

The issue of filling 14 weight classes is certainly problematic. Some states have classes with lineups of as few as six players in football. I'd certainly have no objection to the establishment of smaller lineups for small-school teams. It's now 21 years since the current weight classes were established, so it's certainly time to revisit this issue on a national basis.

Finally, thanks for the compliment, old105. I'm having fun with it.

[wrestling observer]

I have heard talk of Auburn trying to start a new High School team, and rumors of Athens wanting to bring it back after 20 years...These are small town schools here in central Illinois...Ive also heard talk of Athens possibly starting as a CO-OP...Rochester recently started wrestling, and New Berlin now has IKWF with hopes of a high school program...So maybe some growth is in the future...

[Rob Sherrill]

There are a few down that way, which is good to see...Athens and Pleasant Plains were both big rivals of Porta when they still had programs. My point is that the trend seems to be towards starting, not dropping, as some here seem to be saying.

[agdfan]

This blog is the best thing to happen to this subject. There are some very interesting points that have really made me give this whole thing some thought, and it's always good to get other perspective like Moline, RI, schools that size. Thanks Joe, for that.:) Sometimes we tend to get in our own little bubble and stay there. I definitely have quite a bit to keep me busy thinking for a few days. Very refreshing that this isn't a bash-fest or jab-fest.;) And Bucksman always has something thought provoking to offer!!

[Pressure33]

I don't think that the way that the IHSA has outlined the implementation of 3 Classes is the best scenereo. I do, however, think that the current system needs adjustment and if 3 Classes is the only thing that will move in that direction then I favor it. Rob, can you honestly say that you have not seen the big dogs move more and more toward an elitist status and the smaller publics getting less and less of a sniff come state tournament time. I imagine if someone took a good look at the number of placers from these borderline public schools you would find a huge falling off in the past 10 years or so and I don't think you can attribute it all to lack of effort on their part. You make good points of programs who are vastly improving...but in reality they are a far stretch from competing or narrowing any gap with statewide competition of the Catholic and public powers. I do not expect that it will ever be completely balanced field. I do feel that it can be greatly improved. A more balanced field will lead to more excitement for a greater number of fans and teams and give each schools athletes and coaches a reasonable chance to achieve the same goals as others.

[Rob Sherrill]

Pressure33, I certainly sympathize with the smaller AA programs. But no matter where you draw the line, somebody's always going to be the smallest. The great Chicago-area programs have always been great. The reason the state expanded from 16 to 24 in each weight class in AA (and, as a result, from eight to 12 in each weight class in A) back in 1978 - 30 years ago - is that the Chicago-area schools felt they were being underrepresented. You could make the same argument today. The downstate schools actually have more slots in the state tournament on a per-capita basis than the Chicago-area schools do now, so from that standpoint, they actually have a little bit of an advantage. But the more individuals you bring to the state tournament, the more two-and-out individuals you bring, too.

The conditions you describe have been in place for some time. Rome wasn't built in a day...it took us years to get where we are now and in this age of instant gratification, many people expect some kind of a quick fix to be possible, but quick fixes don't exist in wrestling. Thank goodness the likes of Champaign Central, Canton and Taylorville don't feel as sorry for themselves as you feel for them. I salute them for their hard work and their improvement, and I'm sure none of them would expect that results occur overnight...they are the result of months and years of hard work. One of the favorite sayings of Jeff Buxton, the coach at Blair Academy and someone I know well, is this: "We don't focus on rankings or championships. We focus on improvement."

[Pressure33]

"Feeling Sorry" is not the intention of my postings. I am only pointing out some of the deficiencies IMO in our current system. I also salute the smaller schools coaches & wrestlers efforts and determination in an attempt to compete. I have spoken with many of the schools in this situation and their coaches would also like to see a change of some sort. You take a very hard line on the other side. Do you fell that the current system is the best we can do? The facts are hard to ignore... 800 vs. 3500 is not an equal playing field any way you wish to spin it. No it can not be perfect...and there will always be the schools on the low end. It can be adjusted to reflect more appropriate numbers.

[Rob Sherrill]

Whether it's the best we can come up with is debatable. In my mind, however, it's definitely preferable to anything that's been proposed to this point.

Yes, I do take a very hard line on the other side and will continue to until somebody comes up with a proposal that not only addresses and corrects legitimate problems that need to be corrected, but is workable in the context of what the IHSA and available facilities will permit us to do. Demographically speaking, what's really changed since 1974? There were probably more schools with enrollments of 3,500 then than there are now. Local populations have shifted within areas, but if you look at the overall enrollment distribution of schools, it really hasn't changed significantly.

People don't like hearing this, but it's better to take no action than to take the wrong action. Knee-jerk reactions are the last thing we need.

[Thumbcrusher]

Mr. Sherrill,

While I totally am in agreement for adding a third class, and many, many people have suggested ways it will help wrestling in Illinois, you seem to only want concrete proof it will help wrestling in Illinois. That is an Un-reasonable thing to ask for and expect. That is like me wanting concrete proof that it will hurt the sport of wrestling in Illinois to go to three classes. No matter what the argument, it is all just going to be opinions and speculations.

IMO, I think the majority of people who don't want expansion are the fans without their own kids involved with wrestling anymore and coaches of the top enrollment schools who don't want to lose opportunities for their kids. What about the rest of the middle population schools. Tell me the parents/coaches of those schools wouldn't like the opportunity that may present itself for them to have more success. People like yourself (and me to an extent because I love watching elite wrestling close to home) would love to see everybody wrestle in the same class so as spectators we could see the "best wrestle the best" because often thats what all the hype is about. Do you think the parent of a Dixon, Geneseo or Peoria area wrestler is going to be upset that there is more opportunities for them to wrestle in the post season?

I also totally dis-agree that non-action is better than the wrong action.

Wrong action = EFFORT applied to try and fix the situation. I'd rather try and improve and make mistakes trying to make things better than to do nothing.

Non action = No effort to improve.

If you argue that wrestling in Illinois is fine like it is, I'll argue differently. I don't think those smaller AA schools do get a fair shake. I'm not in total favor of how all the changes will take place and what they are, but I agree that some action (including the one that may come to us all) is better than none. Are you suggesting that if another class is added that coaches won't try as hard, wrestlers won't try as hard, training schools will diminish and quality of wrestling in Illinois is going to drop? If the sport is about the kids (and it truly is, whether you like to believe it or not), tell me how three classes can be proven to hurt any of these things I suggested. I can appreciate all you do for wrestling and your vast knowledge but even if you tried it would only be your opinion and pure speculation. I also think your hard line stance is IMO slightly short sighted.

[Bucksman]

Rob-
I'm going to take a slightly different position on the Ohio state tournament. When I go down to Columbus (same with most other people), we don't care about the team race - of course part of that is because we know there isn't one. I/we are looking at the individual matchups.
If I recall what I wrote, my points were more about how to increase the potential balance of the individual tournament climates (ie. not having the smaller schools as much of a red-headed stepchild) - currently our DI and DII climates as individual tournaments are about equal with DII arguably trumping DI.
As for what I expect in Ohio this year, DIII should have a good team race. However, it's a two team race unless Pleasant and TC slip because Monroeville maxes out at 100-120 points (nothing beyond the big four). I'm thinking Pleasant and/or TC could get close to/break their record(s) from last year at the 150 point mark. Maybe next year Monroeville can win with their big four at 100-120. It would take casualties at the district level for MP and TC not to get over 120 points if you ask me - and the districts from which they exit in DIII do not allow for that.
In DII, Graham is going to steamroll; however, I feel the battles for individual titles are truly intriguing. I have Graham favored to win six weight classes - only Taylor and Boyd are prohibitively favored and in Taylor's case the competition behind him is credible. Not only could they qualify all 14 to state (coming from a generally thin district, I think it's likely), they could place all 14 at state (I feel comfortable in saying they place double digits - of course they did that at Ironman). They will also run past the St Eds point record from last year in my opinion.
For Division I, St Edward should win again. They'll get their four champs (Sako, Clark, Palmer, Roddy) and another 150 point season.
With all that said, I'm looking forward to any number of electric individual battles from the quarters on in.

[Downstate Dad]

It makes no sense to increase to 3 classes but keep the same number of qualifiers. You would have to have at least 16 qualifiers per weight class in each of the 3 tournaments. (Why would you have more qualifiers in Class A than in Class AAA?) The only way to make it work, however distasteful this might seem, would be to abandon the system of holding all three tournaments at the same place and time. At least one of these (probably Class A) would have to be in another venue, just like most other sports. That also might have the secondary effect of elevating the visibility of the single-A wrestling Finals (which are now overshadowed by AA) and encourage more participation by small schools.

[Rob Sherrill]

Point taken, Bucksman...I've been to probably a half dozen Ohio state tournaments over the years, dating back to the Nutter Center, and I've always enjoyed watching the wrestling there. I detest the fact that every match is preassigned...when you get to the point where you have 135 on one mat and heavyweight going on next to it because the mats get so out of synch, I always wind up missing several wrestlers I want to see. Give me next available mat every time. And having now read the new Brakeman Report myself, I would agree with your assessments of the team races.

[StickEm]

A bit of good news for Illinois wrestling...Olney is starting up a new program. They have about 25 kids out for this year's exhibition season, and are scheduled to compete in the 2008-2009 season. The only bad part is that they will be one of the SMALLEST schools in AA next year if we go to 3 classes. What a tough way to start out. Anyway, it is great to see our beloved sport grow.

[Jaguar]

Three classes could be handled in the Assembly Hall if another day is added. I have not done the math, but I suspect adding a session thursday night for the preliminary rounds would be all that is needed.