Iron Man Tournament

[Geezus]

Being out here and watching one of the toughest high school tournaments is a great experience. I am simply amazed (which I am not sure why) by the dominating performance the private schools are putting on.

Blair Academy, St. Paris Graham, St. Eds these schools are in a league of there own. There guys are very well rounded and can wrestle from any position-top, bottom, on there feet. Greenlatern was correct when he said OH is the best in wrestling. I would say PA and NJ are right behind.

Montini is doing a good job. They are obviously the leading IL representative in the rankings but they aren't wrestling up to the level they are capable of. Again this is only going to make Montini better and with this experience hopefully the coaches and wrestlers can bring what they learned from this weekend and put it on the rest.

"We are not looking to dominate we are looking to seperate ourselves from the other schools in Illinois, even if that means we have to leave the state to found better competition"

-Montini wrestler

[mckbln]

Being out here and watching one of the toughest high school tournaments is a great experience. I am simply amazed (which I am not sure why) by the dominating performance the private schools are putting on.

Blair Academy, St. Paris Graham, St. Eds these schools are in a league of there own. There guys are very well rounded and can wrestle from any position-top, bottom, on there feet. Greenlatern was correct when he said OH is the best in wrestling. I would say PA and NJ are right behind.

Montini is doing a good job. They are obviously the leading IL representative in the rankings but they aren't wrestling up to the level they are capable of. Again this is only going to make Montini better and with this experience hopefully the coaches and wrestlers can bring what they learned from this weekend and put it on the rest.

"We are not looking to dominate we are looking to seperate ourselves from the other schools in Illinois, even if that means we have to leave the state to found better competition"

-Montini wrestler

New Jersey is really just Blair Academy, and possibly Jackson. Ohio and PA are tough, but IL is right up there with them...maybe not as much this year, but our depth across the state is as good as anyone. I would have put the Carl Sandburg of a few years back against any of those teams in a dual meet. Illinois has been able to put together great all-star teams in the summer and dominate in OK and Fargo. What we don't have right now are individual teams as tough as Paris, St Eds, Blair, Central Mtn, Blue Mtn, Reynolds, Valley Forge, Waverly-Shell, Iowa City West etc. Even Montini would get killed in a dual vs those teams.

[restling]

Being out here and watching one of the toughest high school tournaments is a great experience. I am simply amazed (which I am not sure why) by the dominating performance the private schools are putting on.

Blair Academy, St. Paris Graham, St. Eds these schools are in a league of there own. There guys are very well rounded and can wrestle from any position-top, bottom, on there feet. Greenlatern was correct when he said OH is the best in wrestling. I would say PA and NJ are right behind.

Montini is doing a good job. They are obviously the leading IL representative in the rankings but they aren't wrestling up to the level they are capable of. Again this is only going to make Montini better and with this experience hopefully the coaches and wrestlers can bring what they learned from this weekend and put it on the rest.

"We are not looking to dominate we are looking to seperate ourselves from the other schools in Illinois, even if that means we have to leave the state to found better competition"

-Montini wrestler

Why would you be amazed that private schools are performing well? does it matter if a school is private or public? No, it only matters what schools have the best wrestlers. Isn't Montini AA anyway?

[Radical]

St. Paris Graham is a public high school. It is actually Graham High School in St. Paris, Ohio.

[still alive]

the nice thing about that school though is who there coach is. doesnt he coach team jordan?

[c62951]

New Jersey is really just Blair Academy, and possibly Jackson. Ohio and PA are tough, but IL is right up there with them...maybe not as much this year, but our depth across the state is as good as anyone. I would have put the Carl Sandburg of a few years back against any of those teams in a dual meet. Illinois has been able to put together great all-star teams in the summer and dominate in OK and Fargo. What we don't have right now are individual teams as tough as Paris, St Eds, Blair, Central Mtn, Blue Mtn, Reynolds, Valley Forge, Waverly-Shell, Iowa City West etc. Even Montini would get killed in a dual vs those teams.

Also rememebr that Blair Academy may be in New Jersey, but it is not a New Jersey High School. I beleive that they are a five year prep school and they rarely, if ever, wrestle a New Jersey High School. They get their wrestlers from around the country, . . .something that we cannot pin on the private schools here in Illinois.

[MR TWISTER]

New Jersey is really just Blair Academy, and possibly Jackson. Ohio and PA are tough, but IL is right up there with them...maybe not as much this year, but our depth across the state is as good as anyone. I would have put the Carl Sandburg of a few years back against any of those teams in a dual meet. Illinois has been able to put together great all-star teams in the summer and dominate in OK and Fargo. What we don't have right now are individual teams as tough as Paris, St Eds, Blair, Central Mtn, Blue Mtn, Reynolds, Valley Forge, Waverly-Shell, Iowa City West etc. Even Montini would get killed in a dual vs those teams.
Please don't ever say this again. We (IL) are not right with PA. or OH. We have some good teams and individuals but across the board the depth is a bit deeper in those two states. No one is a bigger fan than me of IL wrestling but I have been to these states and seen with my own eyes and IL is closing the gap but it is by no means even or right there, especially in folkstyle.

You are right that we don't have as many teams as tough as the ones you named. We are making fast progress but still have a ways to go. IL strength is in our individuals.

[Radical]

Please don't ever say this again. We (IL) are not right with PA. or OH. We have some good teams and individuals but across the board the depth is a bit deeper in those two states. No one is a bigger fan than me of IL wrestling but I have been to these states and seen with my own eyes and IL is closing the gap but it is by no means even or right there, especially in folkstyle.

You are right that we don't have as many teams as tough as the ones you named. We are making fast progress but still have a ways to go. IL strength is in our individuals.

I am not so sure Illinois is making fast progress. The east cost style has much more emphasis on riding and turning, something we don't see here to the same degree. From the feet, the east coast kids put more pressure on their opponents and scramble much better turning bad situations around much better than Illinois kids do. The gap is much larger than most people think. Again, I don't think there is a single Illinois wrestler that would have won this tournament this year.

[100lbsOfSteel]

I am not so sure Illinois is making fast progress. The east cost style has much more emphasis on riding and turning, something we don't see here to the same degree. From the feet, the east coast kids put more pressure on their opponents and scramble much better turning bad situations around much better than Illinois kids do. The gap is much larger than most people think. Again, I don't think there is a single Illinois wrestler that would have won this tournament this year.

Very good call now that the tournament has ended and we know that no Illinois wrestler won it. haha :D

[Radical]

Very good call now that the tournament has ended and we know that no Illinois wrestler won it. haha :D

I like your sarcasm, but go ahead an name an Illinois wrestler that wasn't there that could have won the tournament. My point is there aren't any.

[Ace]

Please don't ever say this again. We (IL) are not right with PA. or OH. We have some good teams and individuals but across the board the depth is a bit deeper in those two states. No one is a bigger fan than me of IL wrestling but I have been to these states and seen with my own eyes and IL is closing the gap but it is by no means even or right there, especially in folkstyle.

You are right that we don't have as many teams as tough as the ones you named. We are making fast progress but still have a ways to go. IL strength is in our individuals.


Everyone has to remember that we (IL) are a Basketball state first. So to answer this question, we probably have some of our better athletes focusing their attention to basketball instead of wrestling.(starting at kids age). Just some possible reasoning for lagging a little behind in comparison to these other states mentioned.

[Jaguar]

I am not so sure Illinois is making fast progress. The east cost style has much more emphasis on riding and turning, something we don't see here to the same degree. From the feet, the east coast kids put more pressure on their opponents and scramble much better turning bad situations around much better than Illinois kids do. The gap is much larger than most people think. Again, I don't think there is a single Illinois wrestler that would have won this tournament this year.
We need look no further than that when we wonder why our Illinois wrestlers don't fare as well at the college level as we thing they should.

[Central guy]

2006, 2007, 2008 Junior Freestyle National Dual Team Champion
2007, 2008 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2007 Cadet Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2006 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Runner-up
2008 JR.National Greco Tournament Champions!! (by a land slide)

Mr. Twister, you may be right about not being that close to those teams out east, but one thing for sure is we are the bomb in one of the styles. (greco) I would have to say we are gaining ground in folk style, unfortunatly its just miles of ground that we have to cover...
I know that its not FS or Greco season, but lets remember Illinois is on top of one of the styles... (just not the style were wrestling right now)
With all the wrestling schools, and kids that train harder every year, I would have to say twist, things are looking better for our state than they did in the past, don't you. ;)

[justgivemesix]

2006, 2007, 2008 Junior Freestyle National Dual Team Champion
2007, 2008 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2007 Cadet Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2006 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Runner-up
2008 JR.National Greco Tournament Champions!! (by a land slide)

Mr. Twister, you may be right about not being that close to those teams out east, but one thing for sure is we are the bomb in one of the styles. (greco) I would have to say we are gaining ground in folk style, unfortunatly its just miles of ground that we have to cover...
I know that its not FS or Greco season, but lets remember Illinois is on top of one of the styles... (just not the style were wrestling right now)
With all the wrestling schools, and kids that train harder every year, I would have to say twist, things are looking better for our state than they did in the past, don't you. ;)

greco just lives in this state.

joey bettermen, eric wetzel, jimmy chase, lindsey durlacher, and more.

[Radical]

I hope Providence makes an effort to go in 2009. It would be good to see two guys like Cooper and Kilmara compete there.

[CONDOR]

COOP vs. Sako (St. Eds) this weekend.

[mckbln]

Please don't ever say this again. We (IL) are not right with PA. or OH. We have some good teams and individuals but across the board the depth is a bit deeper in those two states. No one is a bigger fan than me of IL wrestling but I have been to these states and seen with my own eyes and IL is closing the gap but it is by no means even or right there, especially in folkstyle.

You are right that we don't have as many teams as tough as the ones you named. We are making fast progress but still have a ways to go. IL strength is in our individuals.

Sorry Twist but I have to disagree. We are down this year but I simply can't argue with the success of the past few years at Fargo and Oklahoma, and I would EASILY put that Sandburg team of a few years back on the mat against ANY team in the country in a dual meet.

[Radical]

Sorry Twist but I have to disagree. We are down this year but I simply can't argue with the success of the past few years at Fargo and Oklahoma, and I would EASILY put that Sandburg team of a few years back on the mat against ANY team in the country in a dual meet.


Fargo and Oklahoma, although impressive, are not the same Ironman or NHSCA Nationals. Until we perform at a high level at these tournaments we cannot consider ourselves on the same level. This is especially true for folkstyle.

[mckbln]

Fargo and Oklahoma, although impressive, are not the same Ironman or NHSCA Nationals. Until we perform at a high level at these tournaments we cannot consider ourselves on the same level. This is especially true for folkstyle.

No, it's only true for folkstyle. We already proved our dominance in both Greco and Freestyle for 3 straight years now. The fact is that the talent in this state is far more spread out that it is in OH or PA. I admit that this year is a down year but just go back three or four years ago. If you put together an all-star team from JUST the Chicago area that included Ward, White, Kennedy, Benefiel, Goebel, Futrell, Ramos, etc...I would put them up vs the best from any other state in the country. As far as the college jinx goes, that is over; look at how many NCAA All-Americans we had last year. I get sick of the constant pessimism on this board regarding Illinois talent. I give HUGE props to OH and PA...and IA (especially Waverly-Shell and Iowa City West), but don't give me this song and dance about how far we have to go or that we can't compete.

[Radical]

It is not a song and dance. Attend either Ironman or NHSCA Nationals and you will see the depth in both Ohio and PA. Neither OH or PA put together an allstar team for Ironman. Yet these states just produce better results at the National Folkstyle level. The eastern style is superior and turning out better wrestlers.

[wise guy08]

does anyone have a link to the iron man brackets??

[MR TWISTER]

Fargo and Oklahoma, although impressive, are not the same Ironman or NHSCA Nationals. Until we perform at a high level at these tournaments we cannot consider ourselves on the same level. This is especially true for folkstyle.I 100% agree. Ironman and NHSCA are where the best folkstylers are. Illinois does not even send a large contingent to Senior Nationals and until we do we can't consider our kids on a par with Ohio and Pa. Yes we have individuals that can compete but as a whole....NO....:cool:

Fargo and Oklahoma are not folkstyle and yes we have looked impressive in recent years but that does not put us on a par with Oh and Pa. for "overall" wrestling greatness.

No, it's only true for folkstyle. We already proved our dominance in both Greco and Freestyle for 3 straight years now. The fact is that the talent in this state is far more spread out that it is in OH or PA. I admit that this year is a down year but just go back three or four years ago. If you put together an all-star team from JUST the Chicago area that included Ward, White, Kennedy, Benefiel, Goebel, Futrell, Ramos, etc...I would put them up vs the best from any other state in the country. As far as the college jinx goes, that is over; look at how many NCAA All-Americans we had last year. I get sick of the constant pessimism on this board regarding Illinois talent. I give HUGE props to OH and PA...and IA (especially Waverly-Shell and Iowa City West), but don't give me this song and dance about how far we have to go or that we can't compete.
As I remember we were talking folkstyle. I did not know we were talking about freestyle and greco.

You mention NCAA All Americans. Yes IL did well last year. But what will we do over a long period of time is what we need to measure. OH and PA produce NCAA AA's EVERY year. I am not saying we can't compete. In fact I know we can. The year my son went to Sr. Nationals the group that was there beat several East Coasters. Mario got him a PA, OH and a 2 Cali wins that weekend. And Hutter, Hannon and a bunch of others did well against the elite states. But we were small in numbers. Imagine if we had Kennedy, Precin and Polz there. Until I see the effort from IL (like we do for Fargo) that I see out of PA and OH at the national folkstyle events I can't say we are on a par. Cali sends a very large team across the country. OH and PA have triple the number we have. We can't catch up if we are not at the big events.

[Hwt_Wrestler]

I dont think New Jersey a good wrestling state at all if you take away blair its nothing.. I mean sure if you put blair up against a all star team from illinois blair would still probably come out on top... They had like 4or5blair in the finals at Iron man

[wrestlersdad]

I 100% agree. Ironman and NHSCA are where the best folkstylers are. Illinois does not even send a large contingent to Senior Nationals and until we do we can't consider our kids on a par with Ohio and Pa. Yes we have individuals that can compete but as a whole....NO....:cool:

Fargo and Oklahoma are not folkstyle and yes we have looked impressive in recent years but that does not put us on a par with Oh and Pa. for "overall" wrestling greatness.


As I remember we were talking folkstyle. I did not know we were talking about freestyle and greco.

You mention NCAA All Americans. Yes IL did well last year. But what will we do over a long period of time is what we need to measure. OH and PA produce NCAA AA's EVERY year. I am not saying we can't compete. In fact I know we can. The year my son went to Sr. Nationals the group that was there beat several East Coasters. Mario got him a PA, OH and a 2 Cali wins that weekend. And Hutter, Hannon and a bunch of others did well against the elite states. But we were small in numbers. Imagine if we had Kennedy, Precin and Polz there. Until I see the effort from IL (like we do for Fargo) that I see out of PA and OH at the national folkstyle events I can't say we are on a par. Cali sends a very large team across the country. OH and PA have triple the number we have. We can't catch up if we are not at the big events.
These are the kind of discussions that I enjoy reading, so to keep the ball rolling.

So what twist, jag and radical are saying is that our style is holding us back? If that is true, how do we change that? I would love to hear from the coaches of the wrestling schools and high school coaches and get their take on the subject. No reason we can't adopt a style that will promote more success, but who knows how to teach the style?

Should we stay away from the "take them down - let them go" style and work more on riding and turning? Does this style require more focus on strength and getting our wrestlers in the weight room?

Are the coaches being tought the east coast style in the coaches camps?

Backing up one step, we need to start teaching this style to the IKWF kids and get them started young. Is this the style that Ken Chertow teaches?

If east coast kids can learn this style, I'll bet our kids can learn it as well.

The first step is identiflying the issue and if our style is holding our wrestles back, we've identified an issue, now how do we overcome the issue?

Illinois wrestling has gotten near the top, now how do we get over the last hurrdles?

[wrestlersdad]

Until I see the effort from IL (like we do for Fargo) that I see out of PA and OH at the national folkstyle events I can't say we are on a par. Cali sends a very large team across the country. OH and PA have triple the number we have. We can't catch up if we are not at the big events.
Again, how do we make this happen? What organization would be best positioned to organize, promote and facilitate getting more of our wrestlers to Sr. Nationals? IKWF does it for FS/Greco and they do a great job (look at the results), is this something that should be brought up to them, to see if they are interested? IHSA won't do it, who does it in PA and OH?

I don't think Ill. wrestlers stay away from Sr. Nationals, there just is not an organization promoting or organizing it at a state level. I mean, if Ill. wrestlers will go to Fargo, why won't they want to go to Virginia Beach?

Sorry about the rambling, don't you hate it when somebody has all the questions and no answers? I am still learning and defer to the "more seasoned" colleagues.

[Jaguar]

I dont think New Jersey a good wrestling state at all if you take away blair its nothing.. I mean sure if you put blair up against a all star team from illinois blair would still probably come out on top... They had like 4or5blair in the finals at Iron man
Actually, you would be wrong in saying that. Many people more knowledgeable than I make a case for NJ as #3 behind PA and OH for wrestling talent. It isn't just Blair Academy. At a minimum, NJ is on a par with IL, NY, CA and a top 5 state for sure.

[wrestlersdad]

Actually, you would be wrong in saying that. Many people more knowledgeable than I make a case for NJ as #3 behind PA and OH for wrestling talent. It isn't just Blair Academy. At a minimum, NJ is on a par with IL, NY, CA and a top 5 state for sure.
How much of NY and NJ claims to wrestling elite is just east coast self-importance? I know they have some nation calibur elite wrestlers, but how much depth do they have? Just asking.

[Jaguar]

I really don't know what is holding IL guys back. It has only just occured to me that the East Coast guys are better mat wrestlers, including better riders; and that translates to college success where riding time is important. I could name a couple of dozen really good Illinois high school wrestlers off the top of my head who were/are excellent on their feet, but who don't spend much time riding guys. Maybe it is because there is more depth in PA and OH so that the top guys cannot get away with a takedown and let-'em-up style; they have to learn to wrestle on the mat. Illinois is more of a basketball state. OH and PA are more football and wrestling states. Maybe they get a higher percentage of the better athletes in wrestling at an earlier age than we do. But the problem with that theory is that Illinois does very well on the high school level. Our guys that do go to the NHSCA nationals tend to do well. We have done well at the Ironman (in past years), and the Clash, etc. Maybe it is because we don't have as many college wresting opportunities in state. PA has MANY college wrestling programs (Iowa and Ohio too). Our kids need to go out of state, further from home - maybe it makes a difference. But, I still am going back to the emphasis on wrestling on our feet that has clearly been the tendancy of the better wrestlers in our state in recent years. Maybe that emphasis on wrestling in the neutral position translates well to the international styles, where most of the wrestling is on the feet, but maybe it doesn't translate as well to college. I see folkstyle wrestling in college as very defensive in the neutral position these days. It takes an awful lot of offense and flash to penetrate a good defense. That good defense on the feet underscores the need to be versatile in all three positions. If we can't get our offense going to score in the neutral position, we must be able to score (and keep from being scored on) on the mat. I really don't know if this is the reason why our Illinois wrestlers have not had the success in college that their high success suggests they should. It is a thought I have been chewing on recently.

[restling]

I really don't know what is holding IL guys back. It has only just occured to me that the East Coast guys are better mat wrestlers, including better riders; and that translates to college success where riding time is important. I could name a couple of dozen really good Illinois high school wrestlers off the top of my head who were/are excellent on their feet, but who don't spend much time riding guys. Maybe it is because there is more depth in PA and OH so that the top guys cannot get away with a takedown and let-'em-up style; they have to learn to wrestle on the mat. Illinois is more of a basketball state. OH and PA are more football and wrestling states. Maybe they get a higher percentage of the better athletes in wrestling at an earlier age than we do. But the problem with that theory is that Illinois does very well on the high school level. Our guys that do go to the NHSCA nationals tend to do well. We have done well at the Ironman (in past years), and the Clash, etc. Maybe it is because we don't have as many college wresting opportunities in state. PA has MANY college wrestling programs (Iowa and Ohio too). Our kids need to go out of state, further from home - maybe it makes a difference. But, I still am going back to the emphasis on wrestling on our feet that has clearly been the tendancy of the better wrestlers in our state in recent years. Maybe that emphasis on wrestling in the neutral position translates well to the international styles, where most of the wrestling is on the feet, but maybe it doesn't translate as well to college. I see folkstyle wrestling in college as very defensive in the neutral position these days. It takes an awful lot of offense and flash to penetrate a good defense. That good defense on the feet underscores the need to be versatile in all three positions. If we can't get our offense going to score in the neutral position, we must be able to score (and keep from being scored on) on the mat. I really don't know if this is the reason why our Illinois wrestlers have not had the success in college that their high success suggests they should. It is a thought I have been chewing on recently.


It's hard to be a dominate wrestler on the mat, because the ref's make it very hard for that to happen. Far to much down at state the last 20-30 seconds are called very differently from the rest of the match. The top guy gets called for stalling when he is just countering the bottem guys moves. I don't think it's stalling when your trying to stop the bottem guy from reversing you. I know it's a fine line, but I think the rules make it very hard for the top guy.

[maddog81]

It is good Montini wrestles in the Iron Man Tournament this allows them to get some exposure and wrestle to some competetition. There is no benefit other than personal statistics with thier schedule. Either Montini is so dominant over thier opponent or there clearly are some bad programs around.

St. Viator W 62-11
Zion Benton W 79-0
Bowen W 77-3
Uplift W 84-0
Peotone W 79-0
Elgin Larkin W 74-0

[fanofthemat]

It is good Montini wrestles in the Iron Man Tournament this allows them to get some exposure and wrestle to some competetition. There is no benefit other than personal statistics with thier schedule. Either Montini is so dominant over thier opponent or there clearly are some bad programs around.

St. Viator W 62-11
Zion Benton W 79-0
Bowen W 77-3
Uplift W 84-0
Peotone W 79-0
Elgin Larkin W 74-0



These Programs just dont happen to be "developed", Montini will see a couple tough teams this year.

[maddog81]

They do wrestle in the Iron Man, Dvorak, Cheesehead, The Clash in Minnesota as well as Providence so I stand corrected.

[Jaguar]

How much of NY and NJ claims to wrestling elite is just east coast self-importance? I know they have some nation calibur elite wrestlers, but how much depth do they have? Just asking.
That, of course, is the Midwest response. I think there is some of that in the high school rankings, but the problem I see is translating that wrestling talent to college. Illinois just lags behind some of these other states in top college wrestlers (All-Americans) even though we seem to be able to go toe-to-toe with them on the high school mats.

[DocKO]

I 100% agree. Ironman and NHSCA are where the best folkstylers are. Illinois does not even send a large contingent to Senior Nationals and until we do we can't consider our kids on a par with Ohio and Pa. Yes we have individuals that can compete but as a whole....NO....:cool:

Fargo and Oklahoma are not folkstyle and yes we have looked impressive in recent years but that does not put us on a par with Oh and Pa. for "overall" wrestling greatness.


As I remember we were talking folkstyle. I did not know we were talking about freestyle and greco.

You mention NCAA All Americans. Yes IL did well last year. But what will we do over a long period of time is what we need to measure. OH and PA produce NCAA AA's EVERY year. I am not saying we can't compete. In fact I know we can. The year my son went to Sr. Nationals the group that was there beat several East Coasters. Mario got him a PA, OH and a 2 Cali wins that weekend. And Hutter, Hannon and a bunch of others did well against the elite states. But we were small in numbers. Imagine if we had Kennedy, Precin and Polz there. Until I see the effort from IL (like we do for Fargo) that I see out of PA and OH at the national folkstyle events I can't say we are on a par. Cali sends a very large team across the country. OH and PA have triple the number we have. We can't catch up if we are not at the big events.

What's your opinion on Super32? How does it compare on this scale?

[Radical]

What's your opinion on Super32? How does it compare on this scale?

Super 32 is an excellent tournament, but different from these others. It is a preseason tournament, shorter periods. It is also a one day tournament with wrestling starting early in the morning and ending very late, weigh in the night before. A wrestler may have to win 7 matches to win the tournament and more if coming through the wrestlebacks. Lot of wrestling for one day, even if shorter periods. Like most tournaments, early round draws can be easy, but after a couple of wins you will definitely run into some studs. Round of 16 is usually very tough. There are often several state champs, fargo champs and place winners in each weight, some not so good as others. However, there are many top kids that have competed here including Jordan Blanton, David Taylor, Eric Grajales, Ed Ruth. Lots of college coaches in attendance. I would call it a little sister to NHSCA Jr. Nationals in terms of talent and competition.

[Radical]

Again, how do we make this happen? What organization would be best positioned to organize, promote and facilitate getting more of our wrestlers to Sr. Nationals? IKWF does it for FS/Greco and they do a great job (look at the results), is this something that should be brought up to them, to see if they are interested? IHSA won't do it, who does it in PA and OH?

I don't think Ill. wrestlers stay away from Sr. Nationals, there just is not an organization promoting or organizing it at a state level. I mean, if Ill. wrestlers will go to Fargo, why won't they want to go to Virginia Beach?

Sorry about the rambling, don't you hate it when somebody has all the questions and no answers? I am still learning and defer to the "more seasoned" colleagues.

We make this happen by teaching kids early on to ride and turn. Emphasis pinning your opponent and teach this. We have to stop letting up the opponent because we have trouble turning but can relatively easily get a takedown. Start this at the kids level and watch it work its way into the high school level. Almost never give up the one point.

[Radical]

It's hard to be a dominate wrestler on the mat, because the ref's make it very hard for that to happen. Far to much down at state the last 20-30 seconds are called very differently from the rest of the match. The top guy gets called for stalling when he is just countering the bottem guys moves. I don't think it's stalling when your trying to stop the bottem guy from reversing you. I know it's a fine line, but I think the rules make it very hard for the top guy.

Go east and they call the whole match like the last 20 seconds here. Hang on an ankle and get called for stalling. Keep the hips covered and not work toward a pin and get called for stalling. It should be like this all season and this will help kids learn to ride and turn. Do it at the kids level so they know what to expect when they get to high school.

[Ace]

They do wrestle in the Iron Man, Dvorak, Cheesehead, The Clash in Minnesota as well as Providence so I stand corrected.

They might have the hardest schedules (No doubt for tournaments sake) in the state.

Tournaments include:
Ironman
Clash
Cheesehead
Dvorak

Main Duals:
Providence
Marist
Mt. Carmel
St. Rita
Marian Catholic

I know that a lot of public schools wont wrestle not only Montini but any Private school, for some obvious reasons, but still not sure why not completely.

[wrestlersdad]

It's hard to be a dominate wrestler on the mat, because the ref's make it very hard for that to happen. Far to much down at state the last 20-30 seconds are called very differently from the rest of the match. The top guy gets called for stalling when he is just countering the bottem guys moves. I don't think it's stalling when your trying to stop the bottem guy from reversing you. I know it's a fine line, but I think the rules make it very hard for the top guy.
I knew it was the referee's fault! LOL

[restling]

I knew it was the referee's fault! LOL

I'm not saying it's their fault. That is the way I feel they are told to officiate. Just a thought anyway.

[MR TWISTER]

What's your opinion on Super32? How does it compare on this scale?
It's okay but it is not considered a "must be at" like Powerade, Beast of the East, Senior Nationals, Ironman or the Clash.

Go east and they call the whole match like the last 20 seconds here. Hang on an ankle and get called for stalling. Keep the hips covered and not work toward a pin and get called for stalling. It should be like this all season and this will help kids learn to ride and turn. Do it at the kids level so they know what to expect when they get to high school.
I love how they ref out east. They do it right.