Israel vs White? 145lbs

[durham/chicagocoach]

I'm sure this has passed through people's minds before, but it has been on mine recently so I thought I'd make a post.

How do you feel? Israel Martinez state champ 112, 130, 145 and dimissed from team as a Senior (1 career loss)

Albert White 2x state champ, currently 145 as a junior (just like Israel) 2 career loses - Benefiel and Keske (both one the same day! at dvorak)

If they were to dual it out at 145 (both Jrs) who wins?

try to say a little more than just a name - like maybe why you believe what you do

I think Israel, comfortably in fact. which sounds insane - but the year Israel won state at 145 (2000) was arguably the most stacked weight in the past 10 years. (my opinion of course)

3 people from that same weight were state champs the following year (Boyd and 145, Springs at 152, and McMillin at 160-McMillin was also a class A champ the year before 145 lbs - with a fall in the finals) - Israel dismantled Boyd (15-3) and McMillin (18-7) by lopsided scores and beat Springs something like 6-2 if I remember.

names from that year - Springs, Anton Dietzen (started for Illinois), McMillin, Tim Lofel (cary grove), Joe Forsberg (palatine), Kenny Robertson (wrestles now for Eastern IL), Ben Lawrence, Doug Gilbert (fenwick) and Patrick Lukanich

[Tofurky]

Albert White 2x state champ, currently 145 as a junior (just like Israel) 2 career loses - Benefiel and Keske (both one the same day! at dvorak)

Actually, Albert lost 3 matches last season. That same week he dropped two to Keske and Benefiel at Dvorak, he lost a 2-1 OT decision to Marty Engwall of Providence at the Provi/Rita/Montini/Proviso quad. Just statin' the facts.

[The LOCK]

Isreal was sick... He is the best wrestler ever to come out of the state... From what I have heard, he works with Benefiel alot and still to this day as out of shape Izzy is, still tech's Mikey.... And Mikey beat Albert last year... I know T-Fall is alot, but if the guy can do it as out of shape as he is now to Mikey, then why not to Albert.....

[gonzokid]

Isreal was sick... He is the best wrestler ever to come out of the state... From what I have heard, he works with Benefiel alot and still to this day as out of shape Izzy is, still tech's Mikey.... And Mikey beat Albert last year... I know T-Fall is alot, but if the guy can do it as out of shape as he is now to Mikey, then why not to Albert.....

Best wrestler ever to come out of this state??? Better than Joe Williams???

[The LOCK]

Williams... but as closest anyone has ever been...

[OL119]

White is going to go down as one of the best of all time, but the quality of competition downstate is somewhat suspect. His weight freshman year was the worst weight class in the state bar none. Last year he took losses to Keske, Engwall, and Benefiel. Keske and Engwall were never close to being state champions. Losing to Benefiel is acceptable as he is...well...Benefiel. Izzy went through 3 guys that were all at one time state champs his junior year in the same tournament. That's not even counting Kenny Robertson(current DIV I top 20 ranked @174) who took 2nd in state the next year if i'm correct to Donny Reynolds.

On a side note, this is a story I was told about Izzy after his senior year in high school when he didn't wrestle the season. I guess he wasn't planning on going to Junior Nationals in Fargo and 2 or 3 days before weigh ins he cut a ton of weight, drilling till he puked, and even being severely out of shape went out and took 3rd, beating Marcus Levassuer(4x MN state champ, 6x placer, at that time ranked #1 in the country) in the process. If it wasn't for a fluke slam his freshman year and a dispute between him and his coach senior year Israel would have been the only 4x undefeated state champion in Illinois history. I still put him #2 all time behind Joe Williams though. Williams was one of the only wrestlers that you only watched the match to see how bad he beat his opponent, it wasn't whether or not he was going to win just by how much.

[durham/chicagocoach]

well said

the competition at 145 that year still scares me when I look back at it

3 state champs the next year, all beaten by Israel

Boyd, McMillin, and Springs - all in convincing fashion (dominating fashion for Boyd and Mcmillin who he beat without them scoring any offensive points if I remember-also guessing by the score). and yes, roberston (didnt wrestle martinez himself) was/is a stud

also 6-2 over Tim Springs - Tim Springs got his due being state champ the next year, but had tim not won, he would be on my list for one of the best non champs ever placing 2nd as a soph and jr - a really phenomenal wrestler

btw, didnt know about White losing to Engwall

as far as Israel beating Levasseur for 3rd at Fargo - I dont know Levasseur's carreer record for college, but I know he was the guy to beat several years in Division III - and national D3 champ at least once

can Israel really tech benefiel? I have no doubt that Israel has weight on him, but when I saw Israel at the PC/Rita/Montini/Proviso quad he looked REALLY out of shape, pretty fat to be honest

anyone know what Israel did (if anything) at college?

on a side note - I almost wrestled Israel. he missed weight at a tournament which I won (obviously would have been a different story had he been there).

[The LOCK]

What Izzy did in college...

He went on to wrestled a Northern Idaho (Juco) and won the NJCAA Championship. He then went to Iowa where he had trouble. This is a guy who could have beaten Esposito of Ok. State...

Izzy actually has a bet with his brother to see who can get to 180 lbs first... I know if Izzy wanted, he could go and compete and beat 95% of the DI wrestlers in or around the 149/157 weight class.... I am almost betting it would be more than 95%, but I am saying that to be safe... This guy is the real deal...

What he is doing now... He is actually starting to train alot of kids.. Izzy Style wrestling... If you wanna work with him, P-mail me and I will let him know your interested in working with him... He has made big changes in his life, and is doing whatever it takes to help kids succeed on and off the mat... I know he not only makes sure the kids he works with bust their butts on the mats, but he isnt affraid to call or stop by school to check his wrestlers grades...

[durham/chicagocoach]

thats great to hear because i had the impression that he had an attitude problem in high school - prob pretty hard not to have a big head when you are that good.

if Israel could do so well in DI, why didnt he? not saying the only important thing after High school is competitive wrestling (I coach hence the name), but when you are that talented it is the logical path.

when you say he had trouble at Iowa, can you elaborate? or is it the kind of personal thing not for broadcasting publicly?

[OL119]

The trouble would be semi personal and i don't really want to talk about it on a forum as read as this one is. Izzy actually wrestled the regional for Harper junior college last year and won it....but no showed at nationals. That was at 184 pounds.

[TICO]

Izzy was very good, but not God. All the guys you mentioned lost to others also. McMillan was very overrated. Springs lost to Cumbee. Boyd lost to Klimek and Robertson almost got majored in the finals by Reynolds on one leg. I think guys like Mena, all 3 Williams, Davis, Poeta, Tannenbaum were all on Izzy's level... and all have obviously had better college careers. For you to say he could win 95% of the college matches is crazy. He was a takedown machine, but in college it is hand fighting, riding time and physical combat. Izzy would get ridden like secretariet and choked out in a front headlock. Winning a JUCO championship is a far cry from NCAA D-1. Go through all the college line-ups and you see numerous guys with 4x state champ and unbelievable high school accomplishments that can't cut it in college. Did Izzy ever win Fargo? NO. Senior Nationals? NO. There are many IHSA wrestlers from our fine state that have better credentials than Izzy (he was a 3x State Champ and Juco Champ). As far as teching Bennefiel... I doubt it- he could only last about 30 seconds and never turned anyone. Stop all the nonsense talk!

[durham/chicagocoach]

Izzy was very good, but not God. All the guys you mentioned lost to others also. McMillan was very overrated. Springs lost to Cumbee. Boyd lost to Klimek and Robertson almost got majored in the finals by Reynolds on one leg. I think guys like Mena, all 3 Williams, Davis, Poeta, Tannenbaum were all on Izzy's level... and all have obviously had better college careers. For you to say he could win 95% of the college matches is crazy. He was a takedown machine, but in college it is hand fighting, riding time and physical combat. Izzy would get ridden like secretariet and choked out in a front headlock. Winning a JUCO championship is a far cry from NCAA D-1. Go through all the college line-ups and you see numerous guys with 4x state champ and unbelievable high school accomplishments that can't cut it in college. Did Izzy ever win Fargo? NO. Senior Nationals? NO. There are many IHSA wrestlers from our fine state that have better credentials than Izzy (he was a 3x State Champ and Juco Champ). As far as teching Bennefiel... I doubt it- he could only last about 30 seconds and never turned anyone. Stop all the nonsense talk!

don't make me laugh

for one - I'm actually not an Israel fan - I dont really like the guy to be honest. but what he has accomplished in HS speaks for itself.

lets look at what you said -

first - McMillin from Mt Zion is overrated. primarily, depends on what you think he is rated. I dont think he is the best state champ ever, but the facts remain he was a state champ in class A at 145 as a soph, and completely whacked everyone in the bracket getting majors or pins at state. loses to Israel badly his jr year - then beats Anton Diezen (who had a respectably starting career at U of Illinois) for 3rd. BTW, have you seen Anton Dietzen? he wrestled at 130 the year before and looked like he was 171. my dad mistook him for a coach the first time he saw this guy. he is unreal, and he took 4th that year. speaking of McMillin, at 160 (as a senior), he beats Wassong from Sandburg (who was killer if you remember) 8-1- which is a pretty good beating considering. and then McMillin beats Kenny Robertson in the finals - who was/is a pretty good college wrestler. so by most reasonable looks - I'd say McMillin is pretty good seeing who he has beaten and that he is a class A and AA champion.

2ndly - Tim Springs- ahem, yeah, he lost to Cumbee.....in the finals, as a SOPHOMORE. and if you dont remember, Cumbee was one of the more dominant wrestlers at the time. Pre- state Cumbee was seen as an almost guaranteed champion. I wouldnt fault him too much for that. In terms of career, to say you lost to Cumbee in the championship as a SOPH, and then Israel in the finals as JUNIOR, and then were a champ as a SENIOR - I'd say thats a pretty good career. No?

to say the Williams, Davis, Poeta, Mena, and Tannenbaum were all on his level is not exactly a diss - you are naming some of the best in IL in the past 10 years (throw maybe Lackey and a few others in there). I dont know about the best ever - but since I have started watching IL wrestling (1997-98 until now), I have never seen someone dominate like Israel. and this includes Poeta and Tannenbaum. Both of those guys Poeta/Tannen have been close to as dominating as him for maybe a year or so - but again, find a bracket like 145 Israel's senior year that Poeta/Tannen went through like he did, YOU CANT. all I ever saw from Israel was complete domination of incredibly good wrestlers.

even against Kyle O'Neil, which went OT his Soph year (for those who were there), Kyle was never REALLY in that match, he rode the out of bounds line thoroughly. Israel had a number (not like 1-2) that ended up out of bounds because of how Kyle positioned himself. kyle may keep it close, but Israel wins 10 out of 10 against him.

anyway, I think I proved my point

[OL119]

Izzy was very good, but not God. All the guys you mentioned lost to others also. McMillan was very overrated. Springs lost to Cumbee. Boyd lost to Klimek and Robertson almost got majored in the finals by Reynolds on one leg. I think guys like Mena, all 3 Williams, Davis, Poeta, Tannenbaum were all on Izzy's level... and all have obviously had better college careers. For you to say he could win 95% of the college matches is crazy. He was a takedown machine, but in college it is hand fighting, riding time and physical combat. Izzy would get ridden like secretariet and choked out in a front headlock. Winning a JUCO championship is a far cry from NCAA D-1. Go through all the college line-ups and you see numerous guys with 4x state champ and unbelievable high school accomplishments that can't cut it in college. Did Izzy ever win Fargo? NO. Senior Nationals? NO. There are many IHSA wrestlers from our fine state that have better credentials than Izzy (he was a 3x State Champ and Juco Champ). As far as teching Bennefiel... I doubt it- he could only last about 30 seconds and never turned anyone. Stop all the nonsense talk!

Nate was a 2x state champ that went out and won senior nationals...to say he was overrated is a joke...pay attention to national results as well as in state.

[radnev]

Tico,
Mike Boyd never lost to Reynolds in the state finals. He was a qualifier as a freshman, Lost in the state finals to Brad Schrader in overtime, DNP as a junior, and won it at 145 as senior. Donny Reynolds won it at that year at 140.

[Tofurky]

Tico,
Mike Boyd never lost to Reynolds in the state finals. He was a qualifier as a freshman, Lost in the state finals to Brad Schrader in overtime, DNP as a junior, and won it at 145 as senior. Donny Reynolds won it at that year at 140.

He beat Pat Lukanich of St. Ignatius in the finals that year (2001).

[bobbytool]

Isreal was sick... He is the best wrestler ever to come out of the state... From what I have heard, he works with Benefiel alot and still to this day as out of shape Izzy is, still tech's Mikey.... And Mikey beat Albert last year... I know T-Fall is alot, but if the guy can do it as out of shape as he is now to Mikey, then why not to Albert.....

Joe Williams was the best high school wrestler I have ever seen. Israel was terrific, but not Joe Williams. It wasn't the final score or how he won; nobody was ever in a match with Joe.

[Ive Wrestled B4]

I like Izzy a lot but there are a few things that have been stated here that are wrong.
1st he wrestled O'Neil as a Junior in '99 not a Soph in '98. Also, I never watched two wrestlers wrestle the edge like Nate and Izzy did in high school. I'm not knocking it at all, but they were the first wrestlers that I ever watched play the edge like they did.
2nd he was not at Iowa. Izzy was not eligible for D1 coming out of high school because he could not pass the clearinghouse. Without being eligible for D1 coming out, he would have been required to receive an Associates degree prior to transfering to Iowa. Izzy did not do this, therefore he was not "at" Iowa.

Again, I like Izzy but we need to keep some things straight so that people don't start spreading false credentials for Izzy. Plus it makes you look uneducated to spew facts that are merely ideas opinions.

[durham/chicagocoach]

I like Izzy a lot but there are a few things that have been stated here that are wrong.
1st he wrestled O'Neil as a Junior in '99 not a Soph in '98. Also, I never watched two wrestlers wrestle the edge like Nate and Izzy did in high school. I'm not knocking it at all, but they were the first wrestlers that I ever watched play the edge like they did.
2nd he was not at Iowa. Izzy was not eligible for D1 coming out of high school because he could not pass the clearinghouse. Without being eligible for D1 coming out, he would have been required to receive an Associates degree prior to transfering to Iowa. Izzy did not do this, therefore he was not "at" Iowa.

Again, I like Izzy but we need to keep some things straight so that people don't start spreading false credentials for Izzy. Plus it makes you look uneducated to spew facts that are merely ideas opinions.

dude, I'm not gonna deny any of your other statements - but he WITHOUT QUESTION, wrestled O'Neil as SOPHOMORE. it was at 130 if you dont recall. and then as a junior he won at 145 (the weight class I keep hyping up) over Springs. and then as a Senior he was off the team by the time state rolled around.

I think the fact that he didnt wrestle at state as a Senior is what is throwing you off thinking he was a 2000 grad, when he is in fact a 2001 grad (like myself). this is not even up for debate, I know this to be the truth.

champ at 112 as a freshman, 130 as a soph, 145 as a junior, off the team by state senior year. if you dont want to believe me, then cover your ears, but I'm definitely speaking the truth.

[Cubs84]

because he never lost in High School. His only loss was his first match when he body slammed a dude