Fightin Illini

[The LOCK]

Will Coach Johnson really be starting 2 true freshman???

We already know that Kennedy will be starting at 133, now I'm hearing Dergo... Is it true???

[cindybradylovesbob]

Will Coach Johnson really be starting 2 true freshman???

We already know that Kennedy will be starting at 133, now I'm hearing Dergo... Is it true???
If Maxi- is correct, that is very interesting news! Twist, any take or insight from your sources?:confused:

[The LOCK]

I think they are both tough enough, and good enough to do it... I saw Dergo this year and he looked pretty damn tough...

[cindybradylovesbob]

I think they are both tough enough, and good enough to do it... I saw Dergo this year and he looked pretty damn tough...

Thindy knows Dergo is tough enough. But from a "Coaches" standpoint. Is this what is best for the program in a year, two, three etc?

I hope he is ready and I am sure he is, if that is their decision. The question STILL remains; (IF!!!) Ward and White do the Illini thing and maybe a couple other good recruits just happen to jump on board, could one imagine the line up in 3-4 years from now if they keep the true Frosh with the Red Coats on. THINDY THERTAINLY does not read nor touch crystal balls, but, if they wrestle the Frosh this year, they may think they have something better for the team than they do in the future. I hope they are right. Cause that line up could be REALLY GOOD in 3 years!!!! Thorry about the lithp:p

[Maximus]

Thindy knows Dergo is tough enough. But from a "Coaches" standpoint. Is this what is best for the program in a year, two, three etc?

I hope he is ready and I am sure he is, if that is their decision. The question STILL remains; (IF!!!) Ward and White do the Illini thing and maybe a couple other good recruits just happen to jump on board, could one imagine the line up in 3-4 years from now if they keep the true Frosh with the Red Coats on. THINDY THERTAINLY does not read nor touch crystal balls, but, if they wrestle the Frosh this year, they may think they have something better for the team than they do in the future. I hope they are right. Cause that line up could be REALLY GOOD in 3 years!!!! Thorry about the lithp:p

I don't touch crystal balls either Thindy. Big Ten does not allow red-coats to compete on the Midlands... in a week or so, check the bracket at 184...Thindy:)

Then you'll know if Maxi is full of it, or not.

[redskinpride]

Maybe Johnson is feeling a little pressure after last years debacle at the NCAA's. He must as well start true freshman if they are ready. And Dergo and Kennedy seem primed. It woulde be nice to see them do well at the Midlands.

[CheeChoo]

Maybe Johnson is feeling a little pressure after last years debacle at the NCAA's. He must as well start true freshman if they are ready. And Dergo and Kennedy seem primed. It woulde be nice to see them do well at the Midlands.
After having a talk with Coach Johnson, there is no pressure on him.
He is having the most fun with this group of guys in the wrestling room as he's had in a while. Unlike all the critics who say his job is on the line and he needs to win to hold his job, I'm here to say that is not true. Everything Coach Johnson and staff are doing is for the best for the program.
NOW, will Dergo start? You shall all wait and see. In the meantime you can keep your comments/suggestions coming.

Merry X-mas to all.
Have a great wrestling season too

[Maximus]

After having a talk with Coach Johnson, there is no pressure on him.
He is having the most fun with this group of guys in the wrestling room as he's had in a while. Unlike all the critics who say his job is on the line and he needs to win to hold his job, I'm here to say that is not true. Everything Coach Johnson and staff are doing is for the best for the program.
NOW, will Dergo start? You shall all wait and see. In the meantime you can keep your comments/suggestions coming.

Merry X-mas to all.
Have a great wrestling season too

And the Dergo Show plot thinckins'... thay it ain't thoo, Thindy(how's that for a triple lithp?)

[cindybradylovesbob]

And the Dergo Show plot thinckins'... thay it ain't thoo, Thindy(how's that for a triple lithp?)
That wath good!!:D

[Achilles]

After having a talk with Coach Johnson, there is no pressure on him.
He is having the most fun with this group of guys in the wrestling room as he's had in a while. Unlike all the critics who say his job is on the line and he needs to win to hold his job, I'm here to say that is not true. Everything Coach Johnson and staff are doing is for the best for the program.
NOW, will Dergo start? You shall all wait and see. In the meantime you can keep your comments/suggestions coming.

Merry X-mas to all.
Have a great wrestling season too

Well the athletic program at U of I is terrible, i have no clue when the last time they won an NCAA championship in anything, but its deffinately not year in year out.

When i was posting before about his job being on the line, i was talking without knowing anything about the athletic department at U of I. But at alot of schools with competitive programs, after a string of bad years no matter how well the coach had done previously In any sport their contract wouldn't be renewed as a way of applying pressure. But with U of I's terrible athletic program, it might not be a goal to win NCAA championships. Placing 2nd in big tens and winning the Midlands (which isn't such a great tournament anymore) might just be enough.

What I want is people in Illinois to travel to Urbana for the duals in january and febuary. I want this state to respect wrestling like Iowa, and that will never happen without consistent results and an entire team wrestling a style that is fun to watch.

[BARR]

Well the athletic program at U of I is terrible, i have no clue when the last time they won an NCAA championship in anything, but its deffinately not year in year out.

When i was posting before about his job being on the line, i was talking without knowing anything about the athletic department at U of I. But at alot of schools with competitive programs, after a string of bad years no matter how well the coach had done previously In any sport their contract wouldn't be renewed as a way of applying pressure. But with U of I's terrible athletic program, it might not be a goal to win NCAA championships. Placing 2nd in big tens and winning the Midlands (which isn't such a great tournament anymore) might just be enough.

What I want is people in Illinois to travel to Urbana for the duals in january and febuary. I want this state to respect wrestling like Iowa, and that will never happen without consistent results and an entire team wrestling a style that is fun to watch.

Achilles, I have to ask what is a string of bad years? Here are Illinois' results from the last few years...

2006 - Big 10 (2nd place) NCAA (20 something)
2005 - Big 10 (1st place) NCAA (6th place)
2004 - Big 10 (3rd place) NCAA (5th place)
2003 - Big 10 (5th place) NCAA (9th place)

Were the NCAA's last year a disappointment? Absolutely, but they had been a top 10 team for at least 3 years prior. I didn't go back any further to check. So I don't agree with a "string of bad years," but I do agree about getting people down to watch the duals. That is why I go every chance I get. Midlands is still a pretty tough tournament which Illinois has won 2 or 3 years in a row.

[Nelson*0.5]

Well the athletic program at U of I is terrible, i have no clue when the last time they won an NCAA championship in anything, but its deffinately not year in year out.

When i was posting before about his job being on the line, i was talking without knowing anything about the athletic department at U of I. But at alot of schools with competitive programs, after a string of bad years no matter how well the coach had done previously In any sport their contract wouldn't be renewed as a way of applying pressure. But with U of I's terrible athletic program, it might not be a goal to win NCAA championships. Placing 2nd in big tens and winning the Midlands (which isn't such a great tournament anymore) might just be enough.

What I want is people in Illinois to travel to Urbana for the duals in january and febuary. I want this state to respect wrestling like Iowa, and that will never happen without consistent results and an entire team wrestling a style that is fun to watch.


Ahhh....Another intelligent, well researched post by Achilles on NCAA wrestling. With your vast knowledge of what it takes to build a national championship program you really should go on a speaking tour, write a book, perhaps become a mentor to aspiring NCAA coaches.

In all seriousness, you can say all you want that Johnson does not coach an aggessive, high-scoring stye of wrestling and the world will agree with you. You can say that he should build a tougher schedule that includes the National Duals, and many will be right with you (me included). You can say that he has not proven himself in the recruiting game to the extent that he consistently keeps Illinois' best wrestlers from going elsewhere, and you get a lot of agreement there (...although he has shown vast improvements here in recent years with Poeta, Reynolds, Kennedy, Dergo, and now Ward and White). But when you start spewing crap that he's flat out a bad coach, that's where you show your utter and complete ignorance about college wrestling. He was voted Big 10 Coach of the Year in 2005 and 2001 BY HIS PEERS. He was voted National Coach of the year by NWCA and WIN in 1994. He was voted Pac-10 Coach of the Year in 1992 BY HIS PEERS. I'm sorry, but I have to believe that his peers are a bit more knowledgable about coaching an NCAA D-1 program than you.

But all honors aside, I've already had this argument with you siting his success in coaching wrestlers on the mat. You offer nothing to dispute the results on the mat. There is no historical evidence that last year's performance is an indicator of some kind of trend. I was pissed off as all hell about their performance last year. I was pissed off that Tirapelle's performance at NCAA's got worse throughout his 4 years. I was more disappointed about Kyle Ott because I knew we got way more out of him than anyone who knew anything about his bad knees ever would. No one thought his knees would carry him through one NCAA season. Instead they carried him to the NCAA finals, twice. I was pissed off that Pero couldn't win a match in the post season after peaking at just the right time the year before. No one knew why. We know why now. I could go on and on. Bottom line is one year like that is not enough to diminish the body of work. In the world of Statistics and Business we would call last year an outlier. It is not consistent with the rest of the data that we have for Coach Johnson. Idiots make rash decisions based on emotions. They don't think their decisions nor support them with factual evidence. If you look at the data, Mark Johnson is performing quite well.

[Achilles]

But when you start spewing crap that he's flat out a bad coach, that's where you show your utter and complete ignorance about college wrestling. He was voted Big 10 Coach of the Year in 2005 and 2001 BY HIS PEERS. He was voted National Coach of the year by NWCA and WIN in 1994. He was voted Pac-10 Coach of the Year in 1992 BY HIS PEERS. I'm sorry, but I have to believe that his peers are a bit more knowledgable about coaching an NCAA D-1 program than you.

But all honors aside, I've already had this argument with you siting his success in coaching wrestlers on the mat. You offer nothing to dispute the results on the mat. There is no historical evidence that last year's performance is an indicator of some kind of trend. I was pissed off as all hell about their performance last year. I was pissed off that Tirapelle's performance at NCAA's got worse throughout his 4 years. I was more disappointed about Kyle Ott because I knew we got way more out of him than anyone who knew anything about his bad knees ever would. No one thought his knees would carry him through one NCAA season. Instead they carried him to the NCAA finals, twice. I was pissed off that Pero couldn't win a match in the post season after peaking at just the right time the year before. No one knew why. We know why now. I could go on and on. Bottom line is one year like that is not enough to diminish the body of work. In the world of Statistics and Business we would call last year an outlier. It is not consistent with the rest of the data that we have for Coach Johnson. Idiots make rash decisions based on emotions. They don't think their decisions nor support them with factual evidence. If you look at the data, Mark Johnson is performing quite well.

Zalesky won NCAA championships and it wasn't good enough for the Iowa Faithfull. Im sure Johnson is a good coach, i just think that in Illinois we need to expect more from our wrestling programs and we need to demand more. If being a top 5 big ten team and a top 10 program in the country (which they arent right now) is enough then thats sad and the Illini will never sellout, or have duals at memorial stadium.
Barr, by string of bad years i wasn't saying that the Illini wrestlers had one but saying that a successfull coach at other schools can have one and be under pressure for his job no matter who he is. Bo Ryan didn't get his contract renewed last year and he is one of the best college bball coaches there is.

Iowa vs Iowa st sold out and had over 13000 ppl, there were hundreds just standing around, there wasn't much room for the guys to warm up. Marc Perry is a rock star in Iowa city, but in Champaign its Dee Browns name that all the students know and respect. There are tons of teams in the country like U of I, that will get 600 ppl to a dual meet and be happy, win a conference chamionship every once in a while get a some individual success here and there and be happy. But there aren't many teams like OK st. or minnesota and Iowa, and If im the only person on this forum that wants more for this state then i think that you guys dont want enough.

[Conquistadors]

Nelson*0.5,

Great post! You took the thoughts right out of my head and managed to articulate them forcefully and with a tact that I could never manage. Thanks.

I too have minor "nit-picks" with Coach Johnson. But from everything I can tell he and his staff are first class.

Achilles, maybe we have a different outlook on what the priority of a major university should be. If everyone in a position of authority at Illinois, including professors, administrators, coaches, etc., AND THE STUDENTS, did as good a job at what they are supposed to do as Coach Johnson does in running the wrestling program, then Illinois would be a better place (and same goes for all other other institutes of higher learning). Yes, we should strive for Championships, but we should not lose sight of what is truly important in life-- the success and welfare of the people involved. I don't think that what has gone on at the Univ of Iowa over the last few years does that institution any good. How many people's lives have been run over by obsessive fans? Will the University of Iowa be a better institution if and when the team wins another Wrestling Championship (instead of finishing top four most years)? I seriously doubt it. Sure, Brands, Gable, and the fans will get bragging rights? Big deal. I've always thought "bragging rights" were for people with a misplaced sense of importance and weak self-esteem. As an example, in the late 80s and 90s I taught at the Univ of Arkansas (Land of the Razorbacks). Three times in five years the basketball team went to the Final Four and they won the NCAA Championship one year. Sure, it was exciting and fun, but when all was said and done the U of Arkansas was the same mediocre institution that it was before (the stories I could tell...).

BARR, I'm probably going to Midlands. Just have to see what shakes out over the next week.

[Achilles]

conquistadors,
I think you might be missing a big picture here. Wrestling could become an income sport in alot of universitys. It wont however if there isn't a demand for it. What iowa has done is great for the sport of wrestling, maybe it doesn't help out the uiversity as much but i could care less about the university of Iowa or the University of Illinois as a whole. All i care about is wrestling and the future of our sport. I believe that if marketed as somewhat of a compliment with UFC and pride fighting wrestling could take great steps in terms of participation numbers and fans. And if every wrestling match was competitive and exciting agressive and so on, with teams winning year in year out fans would come and keep coming. That should be our goal and the goal of every wrestling team out there

[Nelson*0.5]

conquistadors,
I think you might be missing a big picture here. Wrestling could become an income sport in alot of universitys. It wont however if there isn't a demand for it. What iowa has done is great for the sport of wrestling, maybe it doesn't help out the uiversity as much but i could care less about the university of Iowa or the University of Illinois as a whole. All i care about is wrestling and the future of our sport. I believe that if marketed as somewhat of a compliment with UFC and pride fighting wrestling could take great steps in terms of participation numbers and fans. And if every wrestling match was competitive and exciting agressive and so on, with teams winning year in year out fans would come and keep coming. That should be our goal and the goal of every wrestling team out there

You know sometimes I think you don't have a clue and then you talk some more and I know you don't have one. What are you talking about? I believe you are speculating that wrestling could be a "revenue" sport. Wrestling at the collegiate level can never and will never be a revenue sport. It isn't at Iowa, Oklahoma State, Nebraska, or any other institution. The most that even a program like Iowa can do is sustain itself. Their books are public record. I guarantee you they do no more than provide for themselves. It costs a lot of money to hold your dual meets at Carver Hawkeye. Seeing a dual there is very affordable. They would have to sell out the place numerous times throughout the season and charge more than $6 a head to generate any kind of revenue.

You talk about teams winning year in and year out. Sorry to say, Sherlock, but not every team can win year in and year out. And, such a profound statement to make that every team should have that goal year in and year out! Do you really think that the Illini's goal has been anything less than that, year in and year out, under Mark Johnson?

And, college wrestling being marketed like the UFC and Pride Fighting? Huh? Sounds like a great idea. Let's get ringside sorority girls in bikinis. Let's put the Iowa-OK State dual on PPV. Let's make a reality show where the top true freshman in the nation are locked in a house with Dan Gable and Tom Brands in their face 24 hours a day. If we do that, we can surely compete with the UFC and Pride Fighting. Real Pro Wrestling? Maybe. NCAA Wrestling? Uhh.......No.

Do the wrestling community and the future of wrestling a favor. Come up with some real ideas on how to ensure the "future of our sport". Ones that might actually work. For starters, learn how to be an ambassador of the sport rather than a belly-acher. If you don't like the Illini or their coach whatever the reason, why don't you just stop talking about them.....because you make absolutely no sense.

[Maximus]

After having a talk with Coach Johnson, there is no pressure on him.
He is having the most fun with this group of guys in the wrestling room as he's had in a while. Unlike all the critics who say his job is on the line and he needs to win to hold his job, I'm here to say that is not true. Everything Coach Johnson and staff are doing is for the best for the program.
NOW, will Dergo start? You shall all wait and see. In the meantime you can keep your comments/suggestions coming.

Merry X-mas to all.
Have a great wrestling season too

In the immortal words of Thindy Brady: Tthee for yourthelf:

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16

Thake that, Thindy!!!

[cindybradylovesbob]

Zalesky won NCAA championships and it wasn't good enough for the Iowa Faithfull. Im sure Johnson is a good coach, i just think that in Illinois we need to expect more from our wrestling programs and we need to demand more. If being a top 5 big ten team and a top 10 program in the country (which they arent right now) is enough then thats sad and the Illini will never sellout, or have duals at memorial stadium.
Barr, by string of bad years i wasn't saying that the Illini wrestlers had one but saying that a successfull coach at other schools can have one and be under pressure for his job no matter who he is. Bo Ryan didn't get his contract renewed last year and he is one of the best college bball coaches there is.

Iowa vs Iowa st sold out and had over 13000 ppl, there were hundreds just standing around, there wasn't much room for the guys to warm up. Marc Perry is a rock star in Iowa city, but in Champaign its Dee Browns name that all the students know and respect. There are tons of teams in the country like U of I, that will get 600 ppl to a dual meet and be happy, win a conference chamionship every once in a while get a some individual success here and there and be happy. But there aren't many teams like OK st. or minnesota and Iowa, and If im the only person on this forum that wants more for this state then i think that you guys dont want enough.

Great potht Nelthon! Achille don't have a tendon to stand on! Nithe potht!:)

[cindybradylovesbob]

You know sometimes I think you don't have a clue and then you talk some more and I know you don't have one. What are you talking about? I believe you are speculating that wrestling could be a "revenue" sport. Wrestling at the collegiate level can never and will never be a revenue sport. It isn't at Iowa, Oklahoma State, Nebraska, or any other institution. The most that even a program like Iowa can do is sustain itself. Their books are public record. I guarantee you they do no more than provide for themselves. It costs a lot of money to hold your dual meets at Carver Hawkeye. Seeing a dual there is very affordable. They would have to sell out the place numerous times throughout the season and charge more than $6 a head to generate any kind of revenue.

You talk about teams winning year in and year out. Sorry to say, Sherlock, but not every team can win year in and year out. And, such a profound statement to make that every team should have that goal year in and year out! Do you really think that the Illini's goal has been anything less than that, year in and year out, under Mark Johnson?

And, college wrestling being marketed like the UFC and Pride Fighting? Huh? Sounds like a great idea. Let's get ringside sorority girls in bikinis. Let's put the Iowa-OK State dual on PPV. Let's make a reality show where the top true freshman in the nation are locked in a house with Dan Gable and Tom Brands in their face 24 hours a day. If we do that, we can surely compete with the UFC and Pride Fighting. Real Pro Wrestling? Maybe. NCAA Wrestling? Uhh.......No.

Do the wrestling community and the future of wrestling a favor. Come up with some real ideas on how to ensure the "future of our sport". Ones that might actually work. For starters, learn how to be an ambassador of the sport rather than a belly-acher. If you don't like the Illini or their coach whatever the reason, why don't you just stop talking about them.....because you make absolutely no sense.
Meant to quote thith one! nithe potht! He does make no sense, I just wite non senthically!:D

[cindybradylovesbob]

In the immortal words of Thindy Brady: Tthee for yourthelf:

http://www.morrisdailyherald.com/main.asp?SectionID=16

Thake that, Thindy!!!
This will be a fun year to follow! Nithe work Maximuth! Well, the boy's will have to grow up quick! Cannot wait to see brackets for the Midlands even though Dergo and Kennedy will get banged with their draws! Peath out and meery x-mas to all! Except Yoda!:mad: Ok, Yoda too!:p

[Conquistadors]

Maximus, thanks for the link to the article on John Dergo. I'm excited to see how he and Kennedy do at Midlands.

Cindy, what gives with your lisp or baby talk or whatever a psychologist would call it (a cry for attention)? I guess it is a joke that I don't get, but I find it as pleasant as fingernails on a chalk board. But if you were looking for attention, apparently you got it.

[cindybradylovesbob]

Maximus, thanks for the link to the article on John Dergo. I'm excited to see how he and Kennedy do at Midlands.

Cindy, what gives with your lisp or baby talk or whatever a psychologist would call it (a cry for attention)? I guess it is a joke that I don't get, but I find it as pleasant as fingernails on a chalk board. But if you were looking for attention, apparently you got it.

Should be VERY fun to watch those guyths wrethle! Attention? maybe, I have what they call a thpeach impediment! Merry X-mas to you and the otherths in the Conquering family!
And by the way, "Thychologists" or doctors as it may be, are not BRIGHT enough to see that "cry" for attention, that is more old school people that did not put up with the "PC" of the world! With that, Screw your Happy Holiday's! "Merry Christmas" is what Thindy prefers! "PC" is for your "Thychologist" and the birds! :D

[Achilles]

lol, so tickets are the only source of revenue for a wrestling program? I dont think you know as much about this as you think you do. Probably the biggest portion of a teams budget comes from boosters. And what do you think the boosters want to see?

And i guess you dont konw what i mean by market it as a "compliment". So let me explain what a compliment is, it is pretty much a product that benifits from another. I didn't say market it exactly like the UFC or pride fighting, buti said that if wrestling and MMA supported eachother (it would be much better for wrestling than MMA, but still be +utility for MMA) that it would be great for our sport.

And you must be a very big smart person to put down someone over the internet, calling me unintelligent and such... not that it hurts my feelings or anything because i could care less about you. I have never edited one post that i have written for spelling gramar or anything, im not trying to come off as an inteligent person to a bunch of people in a wrestling forum. So keep on knocking me, thats fine but while your satisfied with what you are and what wrestling is in this state ill allways be looking for that much more.