Dake vs Taylor

[wrestling observer]

I was also a little bit surprised to see how easily Andrew Howe took Taylor down. Howe completely dominated Taylor on their feet. I wasn't surprised to see Howe win, but I was at how easy he made it look.

[justaguy]

So.

Does this open up the possibility of Dake trying to go for a fourth weight class?

[Savanna's Bullfrog]

Originally Posted by wrestling observer

I was also a little bit surprised to see how easily Andrew Howe took Taylor down. Howe completely dominated Taylor on their feet. I wasn't surprised to see Howe win, but I was at how easy he made it look.

Not suprised at all, I predicted that several weeks ago and got flamed for it. I think to many people forgot or counted out Howe, next year in the NCAA will be very interesting

[Spike]

Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM

As I said in my previous post, his flaws were highlighted in his very 1st match which would not have anything to with rest time. Just a couple months ago he was able to absolutely dominate the best folkstyle wrestlers in the country, so the fact that he had to deal contend with a lot of really good wrestlers this past weekend wasn't the reason he didn't look like the David Taylor we were getting accustomed to.

As far as his 5 fargo titles; he won those against high schoolers because he was a superior overall wrestler/athlete than his peers. Lebron James was an accomplished high school football player. If he decided this summer to try out for an NFL team against the best football players in the country and didn't look good doing it, I'm comfortable saying at this point in his life/career Lebron James is not a football player. Michael Jordan was a great high school baseball player. After he established himself as being the best basketball player on the planet and decided to spend a summer playing baseball and struggling in the process, I was comfortable saying at that point in his life/career Michael Jordan was not a baseball player. Despite Taylor's accolades as a high school freestyle wrestler, he has since established himself as arguably the best college folkstyle wrestler in the country with his 2 year run of dominance against the best college folkstyle wrestlers in the country. Just a couple short months removed from that run he went against the best freestylers in the country and he struggled, making me comfortable in saying at this point in his life/career David Taylor is obviously not a freestyler.

With the tools Taylor has, if he focused solely on freestyle for an extended period of time like most of the best freestylers do, he would then in my opinion be a freestyler. And I'm sure he would then have a better showing against the best freestylers in the country.

So does this mean a guy has to be an Olympian for you consider him a "freestlyer"? Or is it that a guy needs to just focus solely on freestyle for an extended period of time? Mike Poeta has been focusing on freestyle for a few years now, is he a freestyler?

Did Lebron or Michael win anything close to what would be considered a national title in those sports you mentioned, let alone 5 of them? Btw, who knew that, all you have to do is be a superior wrestler/athlete then your peers to win titles?

Don't get me wrong, I think it only makes sense that he probably would have better results if he only wrestled one style, but he doesn't and he is pretty good at both.

[The Scrabbler]

If you had only watched these two wrestle folkstyle and never seen the results from last weekend, you would have picked Taylor as more of a freestyler. Taylor's style all year was to score a takedown and cut. He loved being on his feet (I'm not saying he wasn't great in the other positions as well). Dake, on the other hand, tried to score a takedown and then ride, ride, ride, which you just can't do in freestyle.

Of course Taylor was dominant against the best folkstyle wrestlers in his weight class. But there simply wasn't anyone in his weight class that was as good as Kyle Dake.

I don't know where the doubt of Dake came from. He's three for three in national titles and was pretty dominant all year in folkstyle. But he didn't score points like Taylor - who is more flashy and (I agree) more fun to watch. I guess because of that people wanted to pick Taylor over Dake. I wouldn't call it disrespect, but Dake doesn't have the hype for whatever reason (he has half the hype Metcalf did at this point in his career with two more NCAA titles).

I love Taylor. I love watching him wrestle. But the fact of the matter is that Howe and Dake both worked him over pretty good this weekend. I'm not sure how much style played a role. I think at this point, Dake is just a better wrestler (although it may not be by the wide 5-0, pin margin that the box score says).

[Dondo]

So who do you think wins between Howe and Taylor in folkstyle?

I was leaning towards Taylor but not so sure now.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Originally Posted by Spike

So does this mean a guy has to be an Olympian for you consider him a "freestlyer"? Or is it that a guy needs to just focus solely on freestyle for an extended period of time? Mike Poeta has been focusing on freestyle for a few years now, is he a freestyler?

Did Lebron or Michael win anything close to what would be considered a national title in those sports you mentioned, let alone 5 of them? Btw, who knew that, all you have to do is be a superior wrestler/athlete then your peers to win titles?

Don't get me wrong, I think it only makes sense that he probably would have better results if he only wrestled one style, but he doesn't and he is pretty good at both.

They don't have to be Olympians, there are plenty of freestylers that can't beat Taylor in freestyle because he is that much better of a athlete/wrestler than them. But when Taylor switched over from folkstyle to freestyle to make a run in the trials, guys that he would handle in a folkstyle match gave him fits.

Nothing comparable to an individual national title in those sports but Lebron was a big time football prospect.

Just look at the matches (I watched all of Taylor's matches). Some of the things he does and positions he's comfortable in don't bode well in freeystyle against the best guys in the country. When you have someone with his wrestling ability and athleticism having that big of a disparity in his results between the styles, its because he's not a freestyler. Is he better than 99.99999% of people at freestyle? Yes. Just as Lebron James would make a better tight end than 99.99999% of people. But its the other .00001% that each of them would need to beat out to make the team. Despite the fact that each has better physical gifts than the guys they are trying to beat out, they would struggle to beat the best freestylers and football players respectively because Taylor is not a freestyler and Lebron is not a football player. There are certain nuances that go into each sport that guys that specialize in those sports are more adept at than Taylor and Lebron (scoring attempts that don't put you in danger/proper route running and blocking technique). Taylor is not a freestyler right now.

Taylor did not have nearly the comfort level this past weekend that he displayed a couple months ago. His very 1st match said it all to me. He then proceeded to not be "David Taylor" in the rest of his matches because it was putting him in bad freestyle positions. Those positions were ok for him in folkstyle, but not freestyle. My observations and opinion, so we can agree to disagree.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Originally Posted by Dondo

So who do you think wins between Howe and Taylor in folkstyle?

I was leaning towards Taylor but not so sure now.

I'll go with Taylor and like you not as sure in my pick as before.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Originally Posted by The Scrabbler

If you had only watched these two wrestle folkstyle and never seen the results from last weekend, you would have picked Taylor as more of a freestyler. Taylor's style all year was to score a takedown and cut. He loved being on his feet (I'm not saying he wasn't great in the other positions as well). Dake, on the other hand, tried to score a takedown and then ride, ride, ride, which you just can't do in freestyle.

Of course Taylor was dominant against the best folkstyle wrestlers in his weight class. But there simply wasn't anyone in his weight class that was as good as Kyle Dake.

I don't know where the doubt of Dake came from. He's three for three in national titles and was pretty dominant all year in folkstyle. But he didn't score points like Taylor - who is more flashy and (I agree) more fun to watch. I guess because of that people wanted to pick Taylor over Dake. I wouldn't call it disrespect, but Dake doesn't have the hype for whatever reason (he has half the hype Metcalf did at this point in his career with two more NCAA titles).

I love Taylor. I love watching him wrestle. But the fact of the matter is that Howe and Dake both worked him over pretty good this weekend. I'm not sure how much style played a role. I think at this point, Dake is just a better wrestler (although it may not be by the wide 5-0, pin margin that the box score says).

I take Taylor in a folkstyle match. He will be more more comfortable than he was in that last match. If he gets ahold of Dake's leg like he did at the end of that match I don't see him being as tentative with the finish which ultimately got him pinned. That's a big if because Dake is soooooo tough to take down. I think Taylor wins that match on the mat.

[justaguy]

Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM

I take Taylor in a folkstyle match. He will be more more comfortable than he was in that last match. If he gets ahold of Dake's leg like he did at the end of that match I don't see him being as tentative with the finish which ultimately got him pinned. That's a big if because Dake is soooooo tough to take down. I think Taylor wins that match on the mat.

Really? Beating Dake on the mat?