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  #131  
Old 01-21-2018
maddog81 maddog81 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadillo View Post
Why would you recommend to the Clash Director to consider MC when that would mean leaving a tough IL tournament in the Dvorak? Is it better for the team to attend the Clash or try to promote out of state schools to come to IL? What is the rationale for traveling outside of IL so often (Clash, Ironman, Cheesehead, etc..)? I can see going to one but it would be exciting if other out of state teams traveled into IL.
Are you serious?
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  #132  
Old 01-21-2018
Mainefan Mainefan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
Unless the other guy has a serious deficiency on top or you have a deficiency on bottom choosing the top is usually the better choice in UTB if you haven't been warned for stalling. Between 2 evenly matched kids 30 seconds isn't that long to just cling.
Choosing bottom in UTB stopped another Mt. Carmel stud from being a 4x state champ.
Certinly remember when Bryce Brill took bottom against immensely strong Kevin Moylan of Stagg. For me the difference in this match was how easy it had appeared for Stiles to escape in the 2nd period.
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  #133  
Old 01-21-2018
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PapaBearSLIM PapaBearSLIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainefan View Post
Certinly remember when Bryce Brill took bottom against immensely strong Kevin Moylan of Stagg. For me the difference in this match was how easy it had appeared for Stiles to escape in the 2nd period.
Different mindset and strategy by top guy in UTB than 2nd period.

After Moylan and Brill took turns riding each other out in tiebreaks my jaw dropped when he chose down in UTB.

Nice back and forward last week I dabbled in on Twitter with some wrestling media, former college AAs and coaches about choosing bottom in matches.

Most memorable fatal mistake was Molinaro defying all logic (and I believe his coaches) and choosing bottom against Dake at NCAAs. There used to be a hilarious cartoon clip floating around the internet that somebody created mocking Molinaro's choice called "I choose down"
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  #134  
Old 01-22-2018
Tuff On Top Tuff On Top is offline
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Originally Posted by 40 Reasons View Post
No, you don't take top.
it all depends on the wrestler's comfort level. Some of these guys are so good on top you would be crazy to put them underneath. If I'm coaching guys like Markus Hartman no way he goes down. I believe he can ride anyone at his weight for 30 seconds. Rember always stay Tuff On Top!
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  #135  
Old 01-22-2018
petersenkid2 petersenkid2 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
Different mindset and strategy by top guy in UTB than 2nd period.

After Moylan and Brill took turns riding each other out in tiebreaks my jaw dropped when he chose down in UTB.

Nice back and forward last week I dabbled in on Twitter with some wrestling media, former college AAs and coaches about choosing bottom in matches.

Most memorable fatal mistake was Molinaro defying all logic (and I believe his coaches) and choosing bottom against Dake at NCAAs. There used to be a hilarious cartoon clip floating around the internet that somebody created mocking Molinaro's choice called "I choose down"
I seem to remember a high school match that you watched once that went to UTB.
Quick stalemate is the key differentiator that makes choosing top a good idea.
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  #136  
Old 01-22-2018
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will-I-am will-I-am is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
Different mindset and strategy by top guy in UTB than 2nd period.

After Moylan and Brill took turns riding each other out in tiebreaks my jaw dropped when he chose down in UTB.

Nice back and forward last week I dabbled in on Twitter with some wrestling media, former college AAs and coaches about choosing bottom in matches.

Most memorable fatal mistake was Molinaro defying all logic (and I believe his coaches) and choosing bottom against Dake at NCAAs. There used to be a hilarious cartoon clip floating around the internet that somebody created mocking Molinaro's choice called "I choose down"
Donít tell mike mena top is the best choice.
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  #137  
Old 01-22-2018
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Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petersenkid2 View Post
I seem to remember a high school match that you watched once that went to UTB.
Quick stalemate is the key differentiator that makes choosing top a good idea.
Serious question: how on earth do you call the bottom guy bunny-hopping around the mat with the top guy hanging onto to his ankles a stalemate?

Even in UTB?

I have never seen that call made that way in regulation time that way.

If the bottom guy got up to his feet and the top was just hanging on with a waist cinch, is that a stalemate?

I know things change slightly (unclear how or why) in OT and UTB but seriously... I believed that was for riding hips not hanging on for dear life.

A stalemate, as I understood it, was when neither wrestler can improve his position.

In all honesty, I would rather NOT have it called a stalemate if I am dragging a guy around the mat. I will eventually dislodge him (or perhaps he can climb up and assume a more traditional in-control position). In either case, calling a stalemate in that situation helps the guy you're calling it on by allowing him a clean start.

This call made this way decided a match.

In no way shape or form was it fair IMO.

I certainly understand a quick stalemate for any traditional ride where progress isn't being made but I can't ever see fit to call someone actively close to breaking free being called a stalemate.

Appreciate all feedback.
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  #138  
Old 01-22-2018
refsforfun refsforfun is offline
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Stalling in UTB

First stalling instance in UTB will (should) always be a quick stalemate. The only exception is straggling back in from out of bounds (you can't have a stalemate if the clock is not running). That is what all officials are taught at clinics and should be consistently applied.
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  #139  
Old 01-22-2018
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Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by refsforfun View Post
First stalling instance in UTB will (should) always be a quick stalemate. The only exception is straggling back in from out of bounds (you can't have a stalemate if the clock is not running). That is what all officials are taught at clinics and should be consistently applied.
I appreciate the feedback.

I want to pick at this a bit more though.

"First stalling instance in UTB" should be called a stalemate?

Does that even make sense? If it does to you (or anyone else) please explain how.

If a top wrestler lets the bottom wrestler up to his feet and then follows him around in a waist cinch, is that a stalemate?

Isn't that too helpful to the top wrestler?

My point is while certain actions may indeed be worthy of a quick stalemate call in UTB there are still some which should be called stalling -- not stalemate -- immediately. Again, my opinion. I don't think there are any concrete rules to say one way of the other. Which is a problem in itself.

Or I could be wrong and it is more clear cut. But I usually would've hand that trumpeted back to me by now if it were the case.

So, in summary, first stalling in UTB is free no matter how egregious?
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  #140  
Old 01-22-2018
The Cleaner The Cleaner is offline
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Yes. That is the rule. Refs for fun told you that. In o.t. you are no longer required to work for a fall. Also a rule change from regulation. Hope this helps.
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