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  #31  
Old 02-12-2018
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
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P.S. It is cruel and inhumane to force wrestling coaches to figure this out. They became wrestling coaches, not Algebra teachers!
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  #32  
Old 02-12-2018
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
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Haha! It's even crueler and inhumaner for wrestling fans to seed the Big Ten Tournament. If you don't believe me, check out this thread at themat.com, as they try to sort out 165:

http://board.themat.com/index.php?/t...t/#entry339582

Looks like somebody has Isaiah White much too low. I think he gets the fourth seed. Great to see IMAR as a #1 seed. I had a feeling that that was gonna happen.

GO ILLINI!!!
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  #33  
Old 02-12-2018
lauden swain lauden swain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefIllini1 View Post
Great to see IMAR as a #1 seed. I had a feeling that that was gonna happen.

GO ILLINI!!!
I think that IMAR should get the number one seed. But the Big Ten coaches just might see it otherwise. Hurts IMAR that the top guys weren't available to wrestle in their respective dual with the Illini such as Marinelli (IOWA) White (NEB) and Lewis (RUTG). IMAR also missed Midlands which Marinelli ended up winning.
IMAR is 9-0 against Big Ten opponents
Marinelli is 10-0 with wins over Massa (MICH), Lewis (RUTG) (2X) and Joseph (PSU)

Will be interesting to see how it plays out


Lauden
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Last edited by lauden swain; 02-12-2018 at 03:48 PM.
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  #34  
Old 02-13-2018
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lauden swain View Post
I think that IMAR should get the number one seed. But the Big Ten coaches just might see it otherwise. Hurts IMAR that the top guys weren't available to wrestle in their respective dual with the Illini such as Marinelli (IOWA) White (NEB) and Lewis (RUTG). IMAR also missed Midlands which Marinelli ended up winning.
IMAR is 9-0 against Big Ten opponents
Marinelli is 10-0 with wins over Massa (MICH), Lewis (RUTG) (2X) and Joseph (PSU)

Will be interesting to see how it plays out


Lauden
I would be blown away if anybody except IMAR was #1 seed at the Big Ten Conference Tournament, Lauden. Another poster noted that all those guys who didn't show up in the lineup to wrestle IMAR (i.e. Marinelli, White and Lewis) were available for their team's next dual.

I'm cool with sitting on the bench when you have the flu, but that's quite a coincidence, don't you think?

I think there are a couple other relevant points: First, IMAR is a three-time defending Big Ten Champion. That's very special. If he can defend his three titles, that will be history. Second, the two have wrestled. Last year, IMAR put bonus on Marinelli. Now, there have been a couple of things that have changed since that whupping, including Marinelli practicing and lifting for a year, and a giant knee brace. Third, every ranking service in the country will have IMAR with the #1 ranking in the country.

Like I said, I would be blown away if IMAR isn't afforded the #1 seed. Always good to have a discussion with you. Cheers!


GO ILLINI!!!
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  #35  
Old 02-13-2018
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
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From themat.com, we see everything starting to fall into place:

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  #36  
Old 02-13-2018
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
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I'm going to do a thread with all the weights in the conference tournament, and how the ILLINI will dominate them! But, here's an early taste--a look at the crazy 165 pound draw. A couple caveats: (1) I assume that Lewis will win a close match with Wick. If Evan Wick wins, then, he might move up to #4 or #5. (2) Logan Massa is a hard case in this draw. He may drop down and get Wanzek's #8 seed, with Wanzek moving up to #7. It will depend on what the coaches do. Here you go:


IMAR's path would be Wanzek, the winner of White/Lewis, and then probably the winner of Marinelli/Joseph/Massa/Wick.

GO ILLINI!!!
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  #37  
Old 02-13-2018
lauden swain lauden swain is offline
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You're preaching to the choir Chief.
IMAR deserves the number one seed. I'm a huge IMAR fan and hoping that he goes out on top this year.

But it's still going to be interesting to see how seeding for 165 plays out.

From FLOWRESTLING:

Who should be the top seed at 165 pounds for next month's Big Ten championships: Illinois' Isaiah Martinez or Iowa's Alex Marinelli?

The 14 coaching staffs of Big Ten teams have an interesting conundrum on their hands, as both Martinez and Marinelli will enter the conference championships unscathed. Let's lay out their resumes and the arguments for each wrestler's case to be the top seed at Big Tens, which takes place March 3-4 in East Lansing, MI.

The Case For Isaiah Martinez
The two-time NCAA champion and three-time finalist is 9-0 against Big Ten opponents; however, he did not get a chance to wrestle several conference starters who will be seeded.
As you can see, IMar competed against Iowa but did not face Marinelli, wrestled against a Nebraska team without Isaiah White, and competed against a Rutgers squad minus Richie Lewis. However, Martinez also did not wrestle at Midlands.

Ultimately, the Big Ten coaches can do whatever they'd like. Conference seeding is not like NCAA seeding, in that it is not done by an independent and separate committee and can theoretically factor in prior years to break ties. If that is the case, then Martinez's 14-5 win over Marinelli last year at Midlands seals it for the Illini redshirt senior.

Martinez's case rests on prior resume being the tiebreaker, as well as the coaches weighing Big Ten duals heavier than tournaments. The argument there being, if Marinelli had wrestled against Illinois there would be a head-to-head matchup, and conference events should matter more than non-conference events for seeding purposes.

The Case For Alex Marinelli
As a redshirt freshman, "The Bull" has beaten five Big Ten wrestlers ranked in the top 20, compared to Martinez's three ranked wins this season.
A lot of the argument for IMar centers around the fact that Marinelli did not wrestle against Illinois. Another part of that argument is that Richie Lewis did not wrestle against Illinois, despite wrestling fewer than 48 hours earlier against Northwestern, as well as the next weeked against Minnesota.

But remember that one of Marinelli's wins over Lewis was in the semis at Midlands, in which Martinez did not compete. Although there would have been a guaranteed head-to-head if Marinelli had wrestled in the dual on December 1, the Iowa coaches can make the argument that Marinelli won Midlands, while Martinez did not wrestle in the tournament.

Going down the line of wins, Marinelli beat Vincenzo Joseph, a victory that Martinez did not get a chance to achieve, as Illinois and Penn State did not cross paths during the regular season. Similarly, Martinez has a win over Wisconsin's Evan Wick, who did not compete at Midlands and therefore Marinelli did not get a chance to register that win. Likewise, Michigan and Illinois never hit this year, so Martinez did not get to wrestle Logan Massa.

The Verdict
This all comes down to strength of schedule. The situation would be a great time for the coaches to formalize the rules and determine just how much the conference entrant should be penalized for not wrestling in a competition.

As soon as someone brings up that Marinelli missed the Illinois dual, someone else will bring up that Martinez missed Midlands. Also, because the Big Ten sets the dual schedule, things like Joseph wrestling Marinelli in a dual but not Martinez are going to continue happening from now until the end of time.
It is wise to lay out rules about missing competitions, particularly Big Ten duals. However, it is dangerous to set a precedent in seeding about the ability to wrestle someone or not based on schedule.

Ultimately, Marinelli deserves the top seed because his wins over Joseph and Massa are more valuable than IMar's win over Wick. Which means we might see an NCAA finals rematch in the semifinals of the Big Ten conference championships.
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  #38  
Old 02-13-2018
IlliniinIowa IlliniinIowa is offline
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If Marinelli wanted a #1 seed, he should've wrestled in the dual. You can't penalize IMar for the fact that everyone is afraid of him.
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