Why doesn't Illinois get respect from east coast?

[Achilles]

For the past few years it has been very evident that illinois has grown into a very strong wrestling state. Three years in a row we have been in contention for a Freestyle national dual title, and furthermore we send guys to Senior nationals that didn't place in our state tournament who end up being all-americans.

However, Illinois doesn't get respect from many other states as a top wreslting state (not close to PA but on the same level as Ohio and New Jersey). And ranking were even critisized for ranking sanburg at #3 when "they have done nothing to warrant such a high ranking"

So what i am asking is why dont we see illinois best schools traveling out of state to tough tournaments like beasts or iron man. Yes i know montini went to Iron man (but thats only one team) and Mt. Carmel went to Ohio over the weekend (but thats not a tough tournament, at least not even close to Beasts). I would like to see provi, rita, GBN, MC, sandburg and other teams travel to these tournaments or schedule duals against teams like St. Eds, blair, Grahm, Nazerath... Yes its hard to do, but other states do it, why cant we? Illinois will never be on the same level as PA or regarded as high as NJ, NY, CA if we dont wrestle out of state.

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by Achilles

For the past few years it has been very evident that illinois has grown into a very strong wrestling state. Three years in a row we have been in contention for a Freestyle national dual title, and furthermore we send guys to Senior nationals that didn't place in our state tournament who end up being all-americans.

However, Illinois doesn't get respect from many other states as a top wreslting state (not close to PA but on the same level as Ohio and New Jersey). And ranking were even critisized for ranking sanburg at #3 when "they have done nothing to warrant such a high ranking"

So what i am asking is why dont we see illinois best schools traveling out of state to tough tournaments like beasts or iron man. Yes i know montini went to Iron man (but thats only one team) and Mt. Carmel went to Ohio over the weekend (but thats not a tough tournament, at least not even close to Beasts). I would like to see provi, rita, GBN, MC, sandburg and other teams travel to these tournaments or schedule duals against teams like St. Eds, blair, Grahm, Nazerath... Yes its hard to do, but other states do it, why cant we? Illinois will never be on the same level as PA or regarded as high as NJ, NY, CA if we dont wrestle out of state.

I think Illinois gets as much respect as it can get from the east coast. I just wonder why we need the east coast respect? I mean I think the Midwest has better overall wrestling than NY, NJ and PA. But that is a subject for another post.

You are wrong about the Midwest Classic not being a tuff tournament. I mean I hear people say that and compare that tournament to Beast-which it's not, or compare it to Ironman-which it's not. But it still is not an easy tourney to win either and unless you have been there I feel you should not put it down. It makes it seem like we don't even respect the accomplishments of our own wrestlers yet we are seeking compliments from the east coast.

It's not that our teams don't want to wrestle in these and other tourney's like Reno, we can't because of the 300 mile rule. that rule was put in because of BASKETBALL/FOOTBALL recruiting. Contact your principal who is the designated IHSA rep and have them change that stupid rule.

FYI, MC wrestled both Blair and St Eds last year and are scheduled to wreste them again on Jan 29, 2006. We are doing are part as best we can. We were scheduled to go to the ClashIV but funding nixed that.

[Achilles]

By no means was i trying to put down the Midwest Classic. I think its a good tournament for MC to be in and it is an accomplishment to win it. I also believe that Beasts and such would be very good for alot of teams in illinois to wrestle in. And MC and Montini are doing the best they can to do this, but why not rita sandburg or other teams. And why do we need respect from the east coast you ask? Why not, if illinois teams lock them selves inside of illinois or inside the midwest we aren't doing everything we can do to become the best. Just like you see a big difference in between the kids that compete nationaly and the kids that compete within our state. The fact of the matter is that Illinois is tough because of our numbers and we could be alot better if we wrestled in tournaments with the best teams in the country.

P.S. If some schools cant travel, why not invite teams to illinois tournaments. Also i think you misstake me too often for not realizing our wrestlers accomplishments, or putting them down, when in fact im just not settling with them because i think we can do more

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by Achilles

By no means was i trying to put down the Midwest Classic. I think its a good tournament for MC to be in and it is an accomplishment to win it. I also believe that Beasts and such would be very good for alot of teams in illinois to wrestle in. And MC and Montini are doing the best they can to do this, but why not rita sandburg or other teams. And why do we need respect from the east coast you ask? Why not, if illinois teams lock them selves inside of illinois or inside the midwest we aren't doing everything we can do to become the best. Just like you see a big difference in between the kids that compete nationaly and the kids that compete within our state. The fact of the matter is that Illinois is tough because of our numbers and we could be alot better if we wrestled in tournaments with the best teams in the country.

P.S. If some schools cant travel, why not invite teams to illinois tournaments. Also i think you misstake me too often for not realizing our wrestlers accomplishments, or putting them down, when in fact im just not settling with them because i think we can do more

I think you earn respect. Winning the Midwest Classic or the Ironman or the Beast (if we could go) is how you get respect-YOU TAKE IT.

But I like your idea of inviting teams to Illinois. Vista, CA is coming to the Dvorak. They will leave this tournament and tell other teams and it will grow from there. We have a good wrestling state and I would love to see the top tournamnet-The Dvorak, become on the level of the Ironman, where the teams come to us. Great idea.

I really can't speak for programs like SR or Providence but I speculate it is either money or time out of class or both. Neither of those teams is afraid of competition so it has to be some political reason. Money and politics. They go hand n hand.

[Jaguar]

Achilles, you must be referring to the discussions on the themat.com forums. Those forums are dominated by people from the east coast (probably because they don't have good forums of their own (at least in the case of the New Yorkers)). I just responded to a similar statement made on themat.com high school forum. The IHSA rules are definitely one reason. Another is the school funding problems in Illinois. The hot bed of wrestling in Illinois is located in the collar counties, and those counties all have tax cap limitations. The Glenbard School District announced last year that they were cutting most of the lower level athletics programs because of funding issues. The fact the Glanbard North is going to the Clash is a testament to the volunteer coaches they have and a committment to wrestling - a committment that very few public school administrations share, even in the best wrestling schools. Let's face it: as a State, football and basketball get all the attention. In spite of a very successful kids' program, the wrestling community largely exists "underground" as far as the general public is aware. Efforts by people like Andre Morgan and others are helping, but it is an uphill battle. Wrestling is simply not a priority in our communities as a whole, and the funds we do have go other places. I went to college in Iowa and was amazed at the pubic awareness and popularity of wrestling there compared to Illinois. I think similar public sentiment exists in states like Pennsylvania and Ohio. I don't know about other "east coast" states. But, in Illinois wrestling gets lost in the hoopla with Chicago's professional sports teams and their high school and college counterparts.

We may not be able to change the priorities or funding issues (at least not very quickly), and so our State USA Wrestling affiliate becomes the key player in the national exposure that Illinois wrestling gets. Our high school teams may not get the national exposure that will cause the east coast to take notice, but our individuals and State teams can through spring and summer wrestling. That is something that WE (the wrestling community) can control. Public attitudes and school priorities are something else.

[Flyer]

I was reading this thread and I noticed someone said that the distance limit for competitions is 300 miles. I have been told in the past that the distance limitation is 350 miles. I looked at the IHSA site and could not find a distance limitation anywhere. Can someone please point me in the right direction.

[cawazyKarl]

i personally think it would be a great idea to start inviting other states to our tournaments. let them get a better idea of how good illinois wrestling actually is. But teams in illinois should consider the idea of goin to other states more. Beast and Ironman are great tournaments for wrestlers to get experience and wrestle really good wrestlers. Illinois should go out to other states and show how dominant we actually are

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

Achilles, you must be referring to the discussions on the themat.com forums. Those forums are dominated by people from the east coast (probably because they don't have good forums of their own (at least in the case of the New Yorkers)). I just responded to a similar statement made on themat.com high school forum. The IHSA rules are definitely one reason. Another is the school funding problems in Illinois. The hot bed of wrestling in Illinois is located in the collar counties, and those counties all have tax cap limitations. The Glenbard School District announced last year that they were cutting most of the lower level athletics programs because of funding issues. The fact the Glanbard North is going to the Clash is a testament to the volunteer coaches they have and a committment to wrestling - a committment that very few public school administrations share, even in the best wrestling schools. Let's face it: as a State, football and basketball get all the attention. In spite of a very successful kids' program, the wrestling community largely exists "underground" as far as the general public is aware. Efforts by people like Andre Morgan and others are helping, but it is an uphill battle. Wrestling is simply not a priority in our communities as a whole, and the funds we do have go other places. I went to college in Iowa and was amazed at the pubic awareness and popularity of wrestling there compared to Illinois. I think similar public sentiment exists in states like Pennsylvania and Ohio. I don't know about other "east coast" states. But, in Illinois wrestling gets lost in the hoopla with Chicago's professional sports teams and their high school and college counterparts.

We may not be able to change the priorities or funding issues (at least not very quickly), and so our State USA Wrestling affiliate becomes the key player in the national exposure that Illinois wrestling gets. Our high school teams may not get the national exposure that will cause the east coast to take notice, but our individuals and State teams can through spring and summer wrestling. That is something that WE (the wrestling community) can control. Public attitudes and school priorities are something else.

Thank you for the compliment. I just try to do something to make wrestling better.

One of the thhings I liked about Nebraska wrestling is that all meets are on regular t.v. The news every night gives regular updates on the matches-all of the weights. the press coverage is like they are pro stars. Some of this is because in the middle of America there are not a lot of pro teams so the college and h.s. athletes are their focus. Wrestling is BIG in Nebraska, Iowa, Kansas, and in the midwest.

Other parts of the country now about Illinois wrestling. When kids have to wrestle Illinois kids at Fargo and other places in the off season they come extra hard. They know that if they don't they won't win.

[Illifornia]

Illinois gets respect. I dont really understand this post a whole lot, especially the comment that IL is not regarded as high as CA. Winning a state title out here may be as hard, but that is only because there are 800 high schools and 1 class. The average wrestler in IL is so much better than in CA. IL kids are buzz saws.

Also, Illinois wrestling has not improved a ton because it was always stellar. When I was in high school there were the Williams bros, Mike Mena, Matt Hughes, Eric Siebert, Ernest Benion, Lindsey Durlacher, and many many more tier one wrestlers.

[Tofurky]

As Twist said, why do we need respect fm East Coast folks? If we have more respect does it make our kids better wrestlers? No. If we have more respect will that make U of I a powerhouse and #1 team? No. Who cares? Let them think and say whatever they want. Illinois wrestlers will continue their rise up the food chain and before anyone knows it they'll be on par with the Ohios, Californias, New Jerseys and Pennsylvanias.