Montell Marion

[tilt]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Mr Twister, I don't think Mark Manning had a choice with Kenny Jordan and Paul Donahoe. They had both been in trouble before and embarresed the university, not just the wrestling team. Those orders could have been sent from the president or AD possibly?

I remember alot of people saying it was not right to immediately get rid of them. They were entitled to due process and they didnt do anything illegal this time around. It was kind of a morality/NCAA infractions issue and some groups were painting the coaches and university president as homophobes that were not tolerant and were asking them to not do anything.

But Manning was of the mindset that he didn't want anybody around that he had already given a second chance and was continuing to cause any kind of negative or unnecessary attention and distractions to his team.

I could be wrong but thats how I remember it going down.Maybe there was some kind of hearing and it was determined they broke NCAA rules and Manning didnt have a choice? I just don't remember an official hearing or trial with a ruling that forced Mannings hand on the matter?

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by Chuck

Mr Twister, I don't think Mark Manning had a choice with Kenny Jordan and Paul Donahoe. They had both been in trouble before and embarresed the university, not just the wrestling team. Those orders could have been sent from the president or AD possibly?

He had choices. And he was in control of their releases too.

[trunt67]

Originally Posted by Mr. White

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=evjejqHOtns

This is why I like Manning.

good stuff

[trunt67]

Originally Posted by tilt

I actually do like Iowa and coach Brands. But he is not a GOD. He makes bad decisions . Hes human.And he is not above critique like all of us.

Pulling out of the duals and his explanation(kids arent ready and dont deserve the experience) made NO SENSE. They are the 7th ranked team in the nation. When he began his coaching career at Iowa his first statement was that he was going to seek out the best competition so his guys would be ready to finish strong. He thought Zaleski had let the schedule get too weak. With eyes bulging out he said he wanted to seek out and take the fight to aliens! But when he has a slightly down year and may face multiple losses he AVOIDS COMPETITION.Even Gable scratched his head and said it was a mistake.

Now Marion. On the surface it looks very bad.Say one thing and do another. Who cares about the guy that filled in and went undefeated.Not good in my eyes. This is not an injury situation but rather a kid that keeps goofing up.

But there are alot of unanswered questions to this story. Including;
1. will there be a mid season wrestle off
2.Did Marion actually recieve special treatment by training one on one with Metcalf all this time. If Metcalf is a paid assistant how is that even fair?
3.was there any previous warnings to Marion?
4. to what extent did Ballweg know what was going on? was Ballweg told that he would probably lose his spot and a year of eligibilty because they had Metcalf and Marion training in another room and they planned to bring him back?Was their pressure put on Ballweg to do it for the team even though they could have used a 3rd string guy that still would have a winning record?
5. what do the guys on the team that have kept their noses clean think about this? These kinds of events can often cause morale problems on teams.

I would like a few more answers before I say that Brands has made his second big mistake this year. But on the surface it smells to me.

could it be that Ballweg knew the scenario and just wanted to wrestle? you could be right but only 2 people truly know

[Gold Rush]

Originally Posted by tilt

But there are alot of unanswered questions to this story. Including;
1. will there be a mid season wrestle off
2.Did Marion actually recieve special treatment by training one on one with Metcalf all this time. If Metcalf is a paid assistant how is that even fair?
3.was there any previous warnings to Marion?
4. to what extent did Ballweg know what was going on? was Ballweg told that he would probably lose his spot and a year of eligibilty because they had Metcalf and Marion training in another room and they planned to bring him back?Was their pressure put on Ballweg to do it for the team even though they could have used a 3rd string guy that still would have a winning record?
5. what do the guys on the team that have kept their noses clean think about this? These kinds of events can often cause morale problems on teams.

Tilt you make some strong points, but also some very speculative remarks.
1. Within the Iowa system, Brands has a notorious reputation for putting in the guy that can perform at the highest level. Ex: 133/141 over the last 2 years for the Hawks.
2. I would like to think that any Iowa wrestler that wants to workout one on one with a coach would have the opportunity to do so as long as they are keeping up on the grades. What stop's Montell from calling Metcalf (as an associate/friend) and working out?
3. Montell has done his time. I agree the terminology that was used by Brands in suspending him makes it seems as if Mr. Marions career at Iowa was over.
4. Let me get this right. You expect Brands to go to Ballweg and tell him, Hey kid your wrestling tough but at semester we are going to bring Montell in to take your spot. ARE YOU KIDDING ME? Tom Brands wants Ballweg to compete, get better, improve, learn and try to win the spot from Montell.
5. When taking a team poll or census of the situation, it would create cultural divide as the Hawk's roster is made of up 3 Ballweg brothers. Tom Brands has to do whats best for team and then Montell as an individual.

[UsAndThem12]

Originally Posted by MR TWISTER

I don't see the mystery. Brands puts wining above everything else. His actions in both the National Duals situation and the Marion affair scream this.

I like Mark Manning. He lost a potential national championship team by booting off Donahoe and Jordan to make a point.

In both situations we the casual fan don't know the details behind the scenes but on the surface it appears one will do anything to win and the other won't.

Choose your programs with care recruits. Will you be willing to sell your soul?

He paid his dues, let the kids wrestle!
That's a good point about a permanent suspension being an oxymoron, but an even better point about losing your soul. Be warned: Tom Brands will try to eat your soul. Buy Mr. Twisters guide to recruiting for only $29.99 to find out how to avoid this.

[Ramsey_Lewis]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem12

He paid his dues, let the kids wrestle!
That's a good point about a permanent suspension being an oxymoron, but an even better point about losing your soul. Be warned: Tom Brands will try to eat your soul. Buy Mr. Twisters guide to recruiting for only $29.99 to find out how to avoid this.

That'll teach!

[MR TWISTER]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem12

He paid his dues, let the kids wrestle!
That's a good point about a permanent suspension being an oxymoron, but an even better point about losing your soul. Be warned: Tom Brands will try to eat your soul. Buy Mr. Twisters guide to recruiting for only $29.99 to find out how to avoid this.

Thanks UsAndThem It is now $20.00.

[Gold Rush]

Originally Posted by MR TWISTER

Thanks UsAndThem It is now $20.00.

While getting back on the topic of Montell Marion, I just heard that he will be officially rejoining the team prior to Midlands. I'm not sure how crediable the source is, but its coming from a parent of another wrestler on the Iowa team.

[Factory51]

1. As stated the verbiage used when he was removed from the team was not correct, not the first time PR people mess up.

2. Marion has had 3 incidents while at Iowa: A fight, breaking a car window in Des Moines (he paid for the window, no charges filed) and a DUI for sitting on a moped. He does have a problem with alcohol and all 3 things were done while drinking. The thing is that the school never attempted to get him any help for the drinking and that it usually the first thing they do when a student athlete has a problem. The reason he has a crack in the door to come back is due to the school realizing they have not previously given him the support to overcome his drinking problem. He has gotten help, stayed out of trouble and has been doing very well in the classroom.

3. Brands will not boot Ballweg from 141 for Marion. Marion will have to earn a spot through at the least a wrestle off.

4. Since Montell has finally gotten help and is doing well I don't have issue with him getting a last chance. Long had a last chance waiting at ISU but he did not want to clean his act up enough to take advantage of it. At least Brands (as did KJ) put in the work to help a young man try to turn his life around. Montell has done it so far while Long decided to run away from his situation. The coach I see as most deperate and concerned with winning is Sanderson who seems to be willing to grab and use a guy who had not earned his way back on the ISU team at one of PSU's two worst weights.