Montell Marion

[UsAndThem12]

Originally Posted by Hawki

Your comment was not only inane and spurious, it was slanderous!

Go to www.dictionary.com for help with those words, OK?

That is the most insulting post I have ever witnessed. As a deaf mute, I have never had the oppourtunity to slander somebody in my life. Merry Christmas indeed.

[Illiniwek]

Gee whiz, somebody is not having a very Merry Christmas.

[Hawki]

Originally Posted by tilt

I actually do like Iowa and coach Brands. But he is not a GOD. He makes bad decisions . Hes human.And he is not above critique like all of us.

Pulling out of the duals and his explanation(kids arent ready and dont deserve the experience) made NO SENSE. They are the 7th ranked team in the nation. When he began his coaching career at Iowa his first statement was that he was going to seek out the best competition so his guys would be ready to finish strong. He thought Zaleski had let the schedule get too weak. With eyes bulging out he said he wanted to seek out and take the fight to aliens! But when he has a slightly down year and may face multiple losses he AVOIDS COMPETITION.Even Gable scratched his head and said it was a mistake.

Now Marion. On the surface it looks very bad.Say one thing and do another. Who cares about the guy that filled in and went undefeated.Not good in my eyes. This is not an injury situation but rather a kid that keeps goofing up.

But there are alot of unanswered questions to this story. Including;
1. will there be a mid season wrestle off
2.Did Marion actually recieve special treatment by training one on one with Metcalf all this time. If Metcalf is a paid assistant how is that even fair?
3.was there any previous warnings to Marion?
4. to what extent did Ballweg know what was going on? was Ballweg told that he would probably lose his spot and a year of eligibilty because they had Metcalf and Marion training in another room and they planned to bring him back?Was their pressure put on Ballweg to do it for the team even though they could have used a 3rd string guy that still would have a winning record?
5. what do the guys on the team that have kept their noses clean think about this? These kinds of events can often cause morale problems on teams.

I would like a few more answers before I say that Brands has made his second big mistake this year. But on the surface it smells to me.

tilt.....you're all over the place with your thoughts and ideas. It's really hard to answer them all when there is so much going on that is basically devoid of any factual basis. Most of your posts are filled with "personal opinions", but presented as facts. If this were an adult only board, that would be fine. Adults are responsible for what they read and accept as factual. However, this being a small, regional board, I am concerned about the young wrestlers and other interested youth who may lack experience in perception and the ability to discriminate clearly between what is true and what is essentially BS.

You claim to actually like Iowa and Brands, but what you post, seems to be incongruent with your stated position.

In your post #43 you say "for Brands its about winning, winning, winning" And I ask you, How do you know this? Are you a mind-reader? An all-seeing, all-knowing seer? Of course not! You ever ask him personally? I didn't think so. You don't know anything more than I do on the subject. It's your personal opinion, usually referred to as a Wild A$$ Guess. Yet you state it so clearly and emphatically as if you really know something. Far from it I would say.

In post #42, you state, " we should never second guess their motives because these are the Gods of Wrestling" Actually, no one really knows another persons motives, now do they? A lot of times we don't even recognize our own motives for the things we do in life, do we? Yet, this doesn't stop you from posting that you DO know his motives, as in post # 45, " I recognize when he puts winning above the truth or individuals". You also state "he has sacrificed some principles" and you go on to say " he has put winning above everything else". You really have taken to this role of "Judge and Jury" very quickly. Am I really the only one who sees how absolutely out of touch with reality these kinds of pronouncement are. At the very least, these, and many other statements posted here are completely devoid of any factual basis and are solely opinions, that may or may not have any relationship to the reality of what is going on in Coach Brands thoughts and mind. They also seem to be attacks of a very personal nature on the character of the Head Wrestling Coach of a Big Ten University. That is disturbing, but even moreso that these kinds of personal attacks and character insinuations are tolerated about someone in his position in a public message forum such as this. If this were a private forum, that is one thing. Freedom of speech and all that. Bravo. Go for it! This is not private, however. I had no idea about Illinois Matmen before I came to this board. And I am absolutely, positive you don't want me to state my personal opinion clearly here.

You seem to have a very good website. Informative and easy to navigate and use. I assume you are the same Illinois Matmen that posted Midlands videos on Flowrestling and I will thank you for that also, as a job well done. These things are the only things I can applaud you for however. The policing of the posts as per your new policy as of 12-16-2010 leaves something to be desired. Name calling and personal attacks are not allowed according to that policy I understand. Even though the attacks and name calling here that I have seen and pointed out in several posts may be subtle, somehwhat veiled and alluded to. They still are very real and visible, and hence injurious. That in itself is disturbing, yet the several references I have seen posted of "Brands as God" and similar references is especially disgusting and reprehensible. I am dumbfounded by it. As an outsider, viewing your local, regional board, it is simply amazing to read the kind of things I have read here about someone who has accomplished so much in his life, posted by some, that I would guess, have accomplished far less and probably have no actual factual basis for any of their accusations and insinuations. And to allow that kind of character assasination and bashing to persist is simply astounding. Shame on you all.

[Hawki]

Originally Posted by UsAndThem12

That is the most insulting post I have ever witnessed. As a deaf mute, I have never had the oppourtunity to slander somebody in my life. Merry Christmas indeed.

Very good 12....I'm just glad I had my sarcasm detector on.

obtw, I assumed you had an impairment of some kind.

[trunt67]

Originally Posted by Hawki

tilt.....you're all over the place with your thoughts and ideas. It's really hard to answer them all when there is so much going on that is basically devoid of any factual basis. Most of your posts are filled with "personal opinions", but presented as facts. If this were an adult only board, that would be fine. Adults are responsible for what they read and accept as factual. However, this being a small, regional board, I am concerned about the young wrestlers and other interested youth who may lack experience in perception and the ability to discriminate clearly between what is true and what is essentially BS.

You claim to actually like Iowa and Brands, but what you post, seems to be incongruent with your stated position.

In your post #43 you say "for Brands its about winning, winning, winning" And I ask you, How do you know this? Are you a mind-reader? An all-seeing, all-knowing seer? Of course not! You ever ask him personally? I didn't think so. You don't know anything more than I do on the subject. It's your personal opinion, usually referred to as a Wild A$$ Guess. Yet you state it so clearly and emphatically as if you really know something. Far from it I would say.

In post #42, you state, " we should never second guess their motives because these are the Gods of Wrestling" Actually, no one really knows another persons motives, now do they? A lot of times we don't even recognize our own motives for the things we do in life, do we? Yet, this doesn't stop you from posting that you DO know his motives, as in post # 45, " I recognize when he puts winning above the truth or individuals". You also state "he has sacrificed some principles" and you go on to say " he has put winning above everything else". You really have taken to this role of "Judge and Jury" very quickly. Am I really the only one who sees how absolutely out of touch with reality these kinds of pronouncement are. At the very least, these, and many other statements posted here are completely devoid of any factual basis and are solely opinions, that may or may not have any relationship to the reality of what is going on in Coach Brands thoughts and mind. They also seem to be attacks of a very personal nature on the character of the Head Wrestling Coach of a Big Ten University. That is disturbing, but even moreso that these kinds of personal attacks and character insinuations are tolerated about someone in his position in a public message forum such as this. If this were a private forum, that is one thing. Freedom of speech and all that. Bravo. Go for it! This is not private, however. I had no idea about Illinois Matmen before I came to this board. And I am absolutely, positive you don't want me to state my personal opinion clearly here.

You seem to have a very good website. Informative and easy to navigate and use. I assume you are the same Illinois Matmen that posted Midlands videos on Flowrestling and I will thank you for that also, as a job well done. These things are the only things I can applaud you for however. The policing of the posts as per your new policy as of 12-16-2010 leaves something to be desired. Name calling and personal attacks are not allowed according to that policy I understand. Even though the attacks and name calling here that I have seen and pointed out in several posts may be subtle, somehwhat veiled and alluded to. They still are very real and visible, and hence injurious. That in itself is disturbing, yet the several references I have seen posted of "Brands as God" and similar references is especially disgusting and reprehensible. I am dumbfounded by it. As an outsider, viewing your local, regional board, it is simply amazing to read the kind of things I have read here about someone who has accomplished so much in his life, posted by some, that I would guess, have accomplished far less and probably have no actual factual basis for any of their accusations and insinuations. And to allow that kind of character assasination and bashing to persist is simply astounding. Shame on you all.

hahaha love the forum quotes & references...Cant say his posts arent well thought out

[JAMFISHING]

I spoke to a father of a starting wrestler on Iowa's team this Friday at Dvorak. Sounds like some of the wrestlers do not like the situation with Montell. He has a very storied history that starts in HS and follows him to two different college wrestling programs. He is always giving a second and third chance. He is being set up to fail. There is more to life then winning at wrestling.

Iowa City West likes the tough competition at the Dvorak, harder than their state tournament. One wrestlers only 2 loses came at the Dvorak his Jr. and Sr. years.

[Hawki]

Originally Posted by MR TWISTER

I don't see the mystery. Brands puts wining above everything else. His actions in both the National Duals situation and the Marion affair scream this.

I like Mark Manning. He lost a potential national championship team by booting off Donahoe and Jordan to make a point.

In both situations we the casual fan don't know the details behind the scenes but on the surface it appears one will do anything to win and the other won't.

Choose your programs with care recruits. Will you be willing to sell your soul?

MR. TWISTER.....after reading some of my previous posts, I will "give You," that yes, you Can read my mind and you Do know some of what I am about to post. Right?

"Brands puts winning above everything else" What is going on here on this board? Is this some kind of an "inside joke" that I just don't get? Are you really just sore losers because even though Illinois says they have a University Wrestling Team, they really don't! Well, at least not if you go by point totals when they wrestle Iowa. And yes, that was a smart mouthed put down. How does it feel to get back what you guys give out?

I really am perplexed by all the potshots that are taken at Brands. Did he steal someone's lunch money when they were in grade school. The Big Bully! Do you guys really not see that you have no inside knowledge of what he is thinking. Not a clue. Yet you post as if he is your best friend and telling you all his secrets. He is in the room with the wrestlers for 6-7 days a week, I guess. How many hours total? Last year and then over this summer and fall with these new guys and he probably has a lot more insight as to what is needed for their personal developement and growth than anybody here does. Right? And yet, because of not going to Nat. Duals and the still unresolved Marion affair, you guys have it all figured out. He has no other reason or motives for anything he does. Well, at least, that you're not aware of anyway. Oh, but wait, you admit that. You say that " we the casual fan don't know the details behind the scenes" and then you go on and make unsubstantiated accusations anyway. Wow, just Wow!

MR. TWISTER...you seem to have a lot of facts to offer the board here. And that really is one of the main values of a forum like this, where individuals can come and share actual factual knowledge as well as their personal opinions. Personal opinions stated as opinions are great. Couched as if those opinions are facts, when they are not, is in essence, telling falsehoods (lies). And when those opinions impinge the character and integrity of another human being, well, what should we call that? Isn't that the type of behavior that your New Rules for no Name Calling or Personal Attacks are supposed to cover? Asleep at the wheel I guess?

MR. TWISTER, as I understand it you are a Moderator here. As such, your comments and posts carry more weight here than most. That is why I find your words in post #15 quoted above to be so troubling. Your comment about "Choose your programs with care recruits. Will you be willing to sell your soul" is simply astounding. And you really are a moderator? And yet you post something so blatantly absurd, as to be almost laughable except for the absence of common decency that it shows. It is so far from being humorous that it is absolutely preposterous to post attacks on someone like that. It really is a blatant personal attack on Coach Brands. And unless you have some personal information about Brands, that should be given to the appropriate Administrative authorities at the University of Iowa, is entirely unappropriate to post on a public forum such as this. The shame of it all, is that others have taken the above post, quoted it, and replied to it, continuing the written attacks that were allowed to be posted here in the first place.

Being a Hawkeye fan, I will acknowledge that I can be on the sensitive side of all these personal attacks. Maybe this kind of stuff goes on here all the time and is just your way of making snide, mean spirited comments about a close competitor as if they were really cute, funny jokes. I really don't know. Maybe this is done so much you are not aware how it looks to someone from outside your little group. I have no prolem at all if you want to critcize Iowa, Brands, etc. for their wrestling techniques, skills, attitudes, training methods or anything of that nature. Bring it on. Let's debate. Of course, you're wrong no matter what you say

Reasonable people can see things from different points of view and discuss them and agree to disagree. Even some good natured ribbing of each other, within good taste of course. But I don't seem to see anything remotely like that here. What I have observed so far is that Coach Brands is an "Agent of the Devil." Does that pretty much sum it up?

When I first came to this regional board several days ago, I was blown away by the posts I saw here. The truth is, when I read these posts, all I could think was "Small boards, small minds." Sorry, but that's the truth of what I thought. I'm not trying to be clever or give you all a smart mouth put down. Just my personal opinion of what I read here. And I had to refrain from posting for about 48 hours as I was too hot under the collar. My posts would have lasted less than 30 seconds before being deleted. So if you think I'm complaining now, you have absolutely "no clue." And yes, for those who got it, that was a "double entendre"

I don't intend to hang around and make your lives miserable and rub your noses in it anymore than I have. I will check back over the next week or so to give anyone that chooses a chance to hit me upside the head or knock my block off so to speak. I'm a big boy and can take it. And you deserve the opportunity to have your say. And if you can't be factual in your posts, humor goes a long way in getting your point across. Much more so than name calling and character attacks. eh?

[Hawki]

trunt67....are you referring to my posts as well thought out or did you mean tilt's? I'm not clear on the refernce.

[trunt67]

Originally Posted by Hawki

trunt67....are you referring to my posts as well thought out or did you mean tilt's? I'm not clear on the refernce.

lol your posts gave me a chuckle with the quotes and forum post numbers...well thought out amigo

[Hawki]

Originally Posted by trunt67

lol your posts gave me a chuckle with the quotes and forum post numbers...well thought out amigo

thanks 67.....was just trying to be factual and accurate with my posts so as to be clear as I kept seeing so many that were neither. Kind of sad and disappointing really.

Kept running into those Satanic Worship Cult posts too much, you know