Can an Official do this??

[stillwrestling]

Long story short, can an official at a tournament who is officiating on a different mat than the one you are coaching on hit you with a misconduct penalty?

Nothing wild went on. I was coaching lower levels with several kids wrestling at the same time so I stood somewhere other than the designated coaches area. I was not interfering with his mat in any way. In fact, no match was going on this official's mat at the time. I was just standing between two mats coaching my wrestlers.

[55663]

Originally Posted by stillwrestling

Long story short, can an official at a tournament who is officiating on a different mat than the one you are coaching on hit you with a misconduct penalty?

Nothing wild went on. I was coaching lower levels with several kids wrestling at the same time so I stood somewhere other than the designated coaches area. I was not interfering with his mat in any way. In fact, no match was going on this official's mat at the time. I was just standing between two mats coaching my wrestlers.

From the case book....

3. Jurisdiction of Referee: The jurisdiction of the referee is from the time he arrives at the site of the competition and it concludes at the approval of the score- book in dual-meet competition and when the referee signs the bout sheet after the last match of the tournament. In both dual meets and tournaments, when the referee is not on the mat working, he still has jurisdiction in the mat area. The match referee is responsible for the match in progress but other referees, not involved with a match, can offer assistance to the head match referee. Referees should understand that when they are in charge, and just because they are not on a particular mat working, they still have responsibilities. Anytime a referee sees action on the mat, not observed by the mat referee, then he should communicate with the mat referee as soon as possible so that the mat referee can correct the problem. This rule is intended to identify unsportsmanlike conduct when not observed by the referee on the mat.

Were you charged with misconduct or unsportsmanlike conduct?

[stillwrestling]

Originally Posted by 55663

From the case book....

3. Jurisdiction of Referee: The jurisdiction of the referee is from the time he arrives at the site of the competition and it concludes at the approval of the score- book in dual-meet competition and when the referee signs the bout sheet after the last match of the tournament. In both dual meets and tournaments, when the referee is not on the mat working, he still has jurisdiction in the mat area. The match referee is responsible for the match in progress but other referees, not involved with a match, can offer assistance to the head match referee. Referees should understand that when they are in charge, and just because they are not on a particular mat working, they still have responsibilities. Anytime a referee sees action on the mat, not observed by the mat referee, then he should communicate with the mat referee as soon as possible so that the mat referee can correct the problem. This rule is intended to identify unsportsmanlike conduct when not observed by the referee on the mat.

Were you charged with misconduct or unsportsmanlike conduct?

My interpretation of that rule is that this official could "advise" the mat referee and communicate with the mat referee, but cannot directly penalize the coach of a match he is not in charge of. Or am I wrong about that?

I was charged with unsportsmanlike, but there was talk of flagrant misconduct. Thankfully, that didn't happen, though.

I'm not trying to win an argument, I'm just curious about the rule. At the time I just thought, this guy isn't involved in the match.

[bigvern77]

Originally Posted by stillwrestling

Long story short, can an official at a tournament who is officiating on a different mat than the one you are coaching on hit you with a misconduct penalty?

Nothing wild went on. I was coaching lower levels with several kids wrestling at the same time so I stood somewhere other than the designated coaches area. I was not interfering with his mat in any way. In fact, no match was going on this official's mat at the time. I was just standing between two mats coaching my wrestlers.

OK! What's the real story! NO WAY you got a misconduct penalty for "standing between two mats coaching your wrestlers!"

[stillwrestling]

Originally Posted by bigvern77

OK! What's the real story! NO WAY you got a misconduct penalty for "standing between two mats coaching your wrestlers!"

Yep, I did. Almost got a flagrant as well.

The official was going to ref a third match with one of my wrestlers at the same time, but insisted I sit in the chair. After discussing my reasons, the official told me I was warned. I told him that he could hold the match until I was done coaching the two matches already in progress if he needed me in the chair. I also said I would send for an assistant coach if he wanted to wait.

Then he hit me for misconduct. I asked how he could do that since he was not even involved in the match I was coaching and the official on the mat had no problem with it.

I was then told I would get flagrant misconduct. In the end, the official held off on that penalty.

Seriously, that's it. Oh, and of course there were several coaches doing the exact same thing at the time.

[bigvern77]

Originally Posted by stillwrestling

Yep, I did. Almost got a flagrant as well.

The official was going to ref a third match with one of my wrestlers at the same time, but insisted I sit in the chair. After discussing my reasons, the official told me I was warned. I told him that he could hold the match until I was done coaching the two matches already in progress if he needed me in the chair. I also said I would send for an assistant coach if he wanted to wait.

Then he hit me for misconduct. I asked how he could do that since he was not even involved in the match I was coaching and the official on the mat had no problem with it.

I was then told I would get flagrant misconduct. In the end, the official held off on that penalty.

Seriously, that's it.

Do you also have some ocean-front property I can buy in Arizona?

[FoxesFan]

Originally Posted by bigvern77

Do you also have some ocean-front property I can buy in Arizona?

My view on this thread is that Stillwrestling is authentic and just looking for some information. The situation he described is common to lower level tournaments. And, the official appears to want to adhear to the 'coaches must be in chairs' rule. It also appears that the Ref issued the minimum penalty to make sure his ruling was going to be observed and not ignored. It is only surprising because at lower levels the 'coaches must be in chairs rule' is ignored so often.

[Yorky]

Does this mean they are 'in charge' from the parking lot upon arrival until all wrestling is officially over?

Where there are several refs, or in a tournament, is there an official 'chief ref'?

Does a team select a ref, or put a request into the proper area to get refs for a meet?

Last question, if other teams and/or refs actually thought that one ref was out of line or continually has issues with calls or people, is there any recourse into more training or having them removed from reffing?

Thank you

[stillwrestling]

At the lower levels you do get some questionable officials overall.

I once had a guy insist that a headlock with no arm was perfectly legal. I showed him the rule book, but he still disagreed. I once had an official claim you weren't allowed to trip a wrestler when you had a single leg.

In this case, the official did have the proper rule, but I felt he was overstepping his boundaries. I mean, another official cannot come onto a mat where a referee is officiating and over rule his call, can he? No. So why is this official allowed to hit me for misconduct when the official on the mat was not having a problem with it?

Does a coach have any recourse in these circumstances? My experiences tell me that I don't. If this guy hadn't backed off the flagrant misconduct call, I would have been ejected.

So I'm wondering if anyone can chime in with what a coach can do when in one of these situations. By the way, when I argued the illegal headlock call, I was hit for misconduct because the official disagreed with the rule. I was 100% correct in that case, but he still hit me for misconduct.

[Thebigswed]

Originally Posted by stillwrestling

At the lower levels you do get some questionable officials overall.

I once had a guy insist that a headlock with no arm was perfectly legal. I showed him the rule book, but he still disagreed. I once had an official claim you weren't allowed to trip a wrestler when you had a single leg.

In this case, the official did have the proper rule, but I felt he was overstepping his boundaries. I mean, another official cannot come onto a mat where a referee is officiating and over rule his call, can he? No. So why is this official allowed to hit me for misconduct when the official on the mat was not having a problem with it?

Does a coach have any recourse in these circumstances? My experiences tell me that I don't. If this guy hadn't backed off the flagrant misconduct call, I would have been ejected.

So I'm wondering if anyone can chime in with what a coach can do when in one of these situations. By the way, when I argued the illegal headlock call, I was hit for misconduct because the official disagreed with the rule. I was 100% correct in that case, but he still hit me for misconduct.

It shouldn't be a coaches misconduct because that can only be called when you question the judgement of an official at the table. It should be unsportmanlike from my 15 years coaching and 8 reffing you are going to get questionable calls but there are 2 sides to every story. What can be done is get the officials name and have your AD request to the assigner to not send that official to your school but you really have no control on away matches. But i have never in over 30 years in wrestling saw an official threaten flagrant misconduct unless words were exchanged. I'd bet there is more to the story.