Oklahoma State, IL recruiting

[advocate]

Originally Posted by tilt

... Izzy went to Harper and basically destroyed his competition in route to a National title ...

Really? ... could you recap that season for us in your infinite wisdom? LOL

[JayC]

Originally Posted by wrestlingnut

That is correct. What I see typically happening is if a guy is good on his feet he may try riding to get a turn for up to 30 seconds. If the kid is tough to turn he is cut to resume the take down let up 2 to 1 point run up match. We need to accept lower scoring matches to develop all three positions. Until take him down and let him up is discouraged in HS most of our best wrestlers will need time in college to learn how to ride and turn and more important, how to get out from bottom.

You wrestle to put points on the board. Period. If I'm coaching a kid that can take someone down at will but he is only up 2-0 after one period, I'm not a happy coach. Match strategy and situation will dictate what needs to be done but make no mistake, as coaches, wrestlers, fans, we want to see points being scored. I agree that all 3 positions need to be given equal attention while we are developing athletes but you need to look at the match in its entirety. There is a time to go on your feet, a time to ride, and its always time to get out from bottom. My point is that nobody should have to settle for lower scoring matches so we can work on our "perceived" weekness in the 2 mat positions.

[advocate]

Originally Posted by JayC

You wrestle to put points on the board. Period.

... some kids wrestle to score points, others wrestle to Pin!

In some respects, the most important points are Team points.

[barzagar]

Originally Posted by advocate

... some kids wrestle to score points, others wrestle to Pin!

In some respects, the most important points are Team points.

So if you aren't turning someone, just keep doing something that isn't working instead of going takedowns and possibly getting a major/tech? I've coached quite a few kids who were more adept at getting TD's to back for 4-5 pts and possibly a fall. Lot's of times the best opportunities to score backs and falls are immediately after takedowns. I think it's better to win a match by MD/TF then just trying to ride someone to say that you did it without turning them.

I agree that as a state as a whole, when compared to some of the Eastern states we struggle on our mat wrestling. But I don't buy that we need to change our style of wrestling from the ground up. I was at the NCAA's a couple weeks ago and I think the most back points I saw at the highest level of folkstyle wresting were off of takedowns that were right to the back or off a deep leg turk or low shoulder. As much as I don't like to hype up Blair, Buxton is a large fan of that series. Talents like David Taylor/Ed Ruth/J Jaggers that can turn guys all the way through NCAAs are few and far between.

End rant...

[Greenskin]

Originally Posted by JayC

You wrestle to put points on the board. Period.

You wrestle to win.

Wrestling has never been and will never be much of a spectator sport. I don't care what the "fans" want. I tell the kids I coach that you have to learn to wrestle and win close matches. The better the competition the fewer the mistakes, the fewer the mistakes the lower the score. You win if you score only one more point than your opponent. It doesn't matter how you do it...just do it. It might be by riding a guy out, it may be by escaping, it may be by a TD, it may be by a turn, it may be by a stalling call. It doesn't matter. Just outscore your opponent by one point. I really don't care what the score is as long as my kid has one more point than his opponent at the end of the match. If you beat every kid you wrestle by just one point, you're still the state champ or the national champ.

As far as team scores are concerned, if everybody on your team wins by one point, your team wins. Everybody has to take care of his business.

The point is you need to be able to gain that one point advantage wherever and whenever you have the opportunity. That can be on the mat or on your feet so you need to be proficient in both positions.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by advocate

Really? ... could you recap that season for us in your infinite wisdom? LOL

I said Harper and meant another JUCO....big deal. Well into the summer of his senior year there was a big question mark of where he would end up Harper or Lassen......it was uncertain.


articles.chicagotribune.com/.../0011180256_1_state-place-winners-w...


Advocate take the time to educate yourself and actually read the article ....especially the part about Izzy takedowns and how Dyche an NCAA AA wanted to try to help him with his mat wrestling.....sound familiar?

BTW Advocate you never got back to me ? I asked when we all could enjoy watching your son in an Illinois singlet.....because you talked about it soooo many times how he would definetly be representing Illinois this year?

Whats the matter were you too busy checking out Brills Facebook to get back? Or hiding behind a bush to see who Whitford was talking to?LOL

[tilt]

West Aurora's Israel Martinez Is Aiming To Become Part Of A Select Group-- Wrestlers Who Have Won Four Straight State Class Aa Titles.

Preps Plus.

Fighting For 4


November 18, 2000|By Reid Hanley, Tribune Staff Writer.
The wrestling season can't get over fast enough for West Aurora's Israel Martinez.
Don't take that the wrong way. Martinez loves wrestling. Why wouldn't he after winning three straight Class AA state championships? It's just that the senior can't wait to win a fourth title.




"It's going to be tough," said Martinez, who, along with Machesney Park Harlem's Cal Ferry, has a chance to join an elite club of three wrestlers who have won four Class AA titles. "That's all I want to do. I want to hurry up and get to it. I think the main thing is, I can't think about it. If I look ahead I might make an error and get beat."
History also could be made in the Class AA team dual competition. Defending champion Providence will attempt to become the first team to win five straight championships regardless of class or format. Proviso East won the first of four consecutive state titles in 1937. Providence could also inch closer to the Pirates' record of 10 state crowns, as another championship will put the Celtics at nine.
Providence, which returns state place winners Matt Kucala, Don Reynolds and Mike Klimek, incurred some big graduation losses. And the Celtics will be hampered by the participation of several wrestlers on the Providence playoff footballteam, but they should finish strong.
"We have the same standard every year," said Providence coach Keith Healy, who has a 197-31-2 record with four state titles and three thirds. "We try to set our goals high and, hopefully, we'll get another championship. These kids have seen how it's done and now it's up to them to getitdone. Every year is a new year and every team is a new team."
Only Andrew's Joey Gilbert (1986-89) and Mt. Carmel brothers Joe (1990-93) and T.J. Williams (1993-96) have won four Class AA state titles. Martinez, who has a 114-1 career record with his only loss a disqualification as a freshman, and Ferry, who has a 120-5 career record, would be worthy additions to the club.
The season will start late for Martinez. He was involved in an incident last summer that violated school rules and he won't be wrestling until the second week in December. The suspension has given him a better appreciation of his opportunities in wrestling.
"It just made me think more about how much it means to me," he said. "I want to finally get this done. I'm going to need to focus. I was kind of losing my focus, having a good time, enjoying the summer. It's settled me down a lot. It made me realize what I have."
Martinez admittedly has been a one-dimensional wrestler. He is a master of the takedown because of his quickness and mat smarts. Last year he dominated the 145-pound weight class at the state tournament with three lopsided victories and a 6-2 decision over Bremen's Tim Springs in the final.
If he is to advance to the collegiate level with the same kind of success, he knows he must diversify. He's working to improve both the top and bottom positions on the mat with new assistant coach Mike DiNova, a former Marist wrestler. Martinez's brother Nathan, a two-time state champion at West Aurora who currently wrestles at Harper College, also drops by for workouts.


"He knows what he needs to do and has taken to it," West Aurora coach George Dyche said. "On takedowns--what can you say? He's got his own book on that. There's not much I could show him. He's unbelievable. But he knows he has to turn people and be able to get out."
Martinez has been heavily recruited, with Illinois and Arizona State pushing the hardest. Oklahoma State, Indiana, Iowa State and Iowa have also made known their interest.
One question about Martinez is academics. He has a chance to qualify for an NCAA Division I scholarship, but he will need to raise his grades this year. He had a solid first semester as a junior but fell off a bit in the spring. If he doesn't qualify, he'll probably go to Lassen JuniorCollege in California, the same school four-time state champion T.J. Williams attended before going to Iowa.
"I have a bunch of college options, but I really have to work hard on my grades this year," he said. "I slacked off my freshman, sophomore and junior years. Depending on how I do this year, I'll go [Division I]. Arizona State, Illinois and Indiana are probably my best options."
Another question for college coaches is Martinez's final weight. This season he probably will move up to the 152-pound class. Martinez has never been a fan of cutting weight, and his weight before practice is between 158 and 164 pounds. He should have no problem making 152 once he gets into wrestling shape.
"We have a bunch of good guys at 160 to 171 and it would help the team if I were at 152," he said.
Expectations have always been high for Martinez and this season is certainly no exception. Anything less than a state title would be a big surprise and a big disappointment. He's trying not to think about it too much.
"Ever since I was little, when I won my first kid's title it was, `Israel, let's see you win two, three, four, five,'" he said. "Then once you win five they want you to win one high school title, then two and three.
"I never really thought about it. I just always thought, `Win 'em all.' "

[JayC]

Originally Posted by Greenskin

You wrestle to win.

Wrestling has never been and will never be much of a spectator sport. I don't care what the "fans" want. You win if you score only one more point than your opponent.

You win by scoring points and pinning. This mentality is ignorant and 99% of people on here would not agree with you. Wrestling isn't much of a spectator sport? Are you kidding me? What you are describing is stalling. If you aren't scoring or setting up a score, you are stalling.

If you want to kill the sport, use the logic in Greenskin's post.

Yes you have to learn to win close matches. That means riding guys out at the end of periods. Not giving up takedowns at the end of periods. A ride out in a tight match is huge. etc.. etc... but constantly looking for your best oppertunities to put points on the board or put a guy on his back is how you win both tight matches and blow outs.

P.S. Its not the BCS Championship or the BBall Final Four but tell the almost 20,000 fans that were going crazy at the ScottTrade Center in St. Louis that this isn't much of a spectator sport.

[advocate]

Tilt, remember your discussing events that occurred about 12 years ago.

Originally Posted by tilt

... Izzy went to Harper and basically destroyed his competition in route to a National title ...

Originally Posted by tilt

I said Harper and meant another JUCO ... big deal. Well into the summer of his senior year there was a big question mark of where he would end up Harper or Lassen ... it was uncertain.

Apparently there was some uncertainty about where Izzy would end up in college as a high school senior, but now 12 years later there is no uncertainty. He went to Northern Idaho and won a National Championship, that's history. Nowhere in the ancient article you dug up did anyone ever mention Harper (just you) and we know he didn't go to Lassen, well most of us do.

[Greenskin]

Originally Posted by JayC

You win by scoring points and pinning. This mentality is ignorant and 99% of people on here would not agree with you. Wrestling isn't much of a spectator sport? Are you kidding me? What you are describing is stalling. If you aren't scoring or setting up a score, you are stalling.

If you want to kill the sport, use the logic in Greenskin's post.

Yes you have to learn to win close matches. That means riding guys out at the end of periods. Not giving up takedowns at the end of periods. A ride out in a tight match is huge. etc.. etc... but constantly looking for your best oppertunities to put points on the board or put a guy on his back is how you win both tight matches and blow outs.

P.S. Its not the BCS Championship or the BBall Final Four but tell the almost 20,000 fans that were going crazy at the ScottTrade Center in St. Louis that this isn't much of a spectator sport.

In my ignorance I have always considered wrestling a sport of control. Controling an opponent is not always flashy and does not always result in a lot of points. If you can "stall" and still win the match, it doesn't really matter, does it? Most kids that go through a program are happy if they just win. Helping the majority of kids who will not be or cannot be state or national champs win has always been important to me. That is a huge part of this sport.

Wrestling is a great a spectator sport all right. That is why so many kids flock to it. That's why it gets so much coverage in the local newspapers. That's why Sports Center has a nightly segment on wrestling. That's why there is a professional wrestling circuit for kids to aspire to. That's why wrestling coaches make so much money. That's why colleges are dropping the program. That's why they have advance ticket sales for Thursday night high school duals. That's why high schools routinely hold pep rallies for their wrestling teams. We are one of the top high school wrestling states in the country and that's why we fill the gyms for our dual meets (well at least mom and dad might come).

The sport has existed for thousands of years and has evolved to what it is today. I love it...most do not. If you want to be successful in the sport, learn how to win. As far as who agrees with me, I couldn't care less. Don't you know that 74.865% of all statistics are made up on the spot? Your 99%, therefore, doesn't scare me.