Oklahoma State, IL recruiting

[tilt]

Originally Posted by James_Oliva

At the same time, who was the last big name recruit to come out of Montini? I too thought that Benefiel would be a couple time AA, but other than Mikey B. what other big name recruits have come out in recent years? Sure Stephen Robertson is still young, but UPenn isnt exactly a wrestling powerhouse. I think recent results have been more of a case of Bu/Izzy maximizing their potential as high school wrestlers. There's a big difference between being a high school state champion and being an NCAA All-American.

Connor Beebe easily beat Precin at Dvorak with takedowns. Precin went on to be a multiple AA and Beebe had a respectable career and qualifified but never placed.
Goebel went the football route so we can't really discuss him.
Radtke had a brilliant hs career but has yet to make some noise.
I saw many posts that Foreside had unlimited potential and would do very well in college wrestling......
Same with the young Robertson.
Radtke was also frequently talked about as a good AA prospect.
Bennefiel has been discussed at length.

James, I just don't think an argument can be made that Montini is working with raw wrestlers. I think the reality is that Montini takes good wrestlers and makes them better, but also teaches them a style that helps win Illinois HS championships but doesn't prepare them the best way best for college.

I know Izzy was a National Juco champ, but how many matches did he have at the D1 level? Now compare his experience to say a Siebert.

[James_Oliva]

Originally Posted by tilt

Connor Beebe easily beat Precin at Dvorak with takedowns. Precin went on to be a multiple AA and Beebe had a respectable career and qualifified but never placed.
Goebel went the football route so we can't really discuss him.
Radtke had a brilliant hs career but has yet to make some noise.
I saw many posts that Foreside had unlimited potential and would do very well in college wrestling......
Same with the young Robertson.
Radtke was also frequently talked about as a good AA prospect.
Bennefiel has been discussed at length.

James, I just don't think an argument can be made that Montini is working with raw wrestlers. I think the reality is that Montini takes good wrestlers and makes them better, but also teaches them a style that helps win Illinois HS championships but doesn't prepare them the best way best for college.

I know Izzy was a National Juco champ, but how many matches did he have at the D1 level? Now compare his experience to say a Siebert.

Good points. I don't know if Radtke (?) and Foreside were ever D1AA candidates in my mind. I just can't think of many Montini kids other than Benefiel and Beebe who were as good in HS as Blanton, Futrell, Ramos or the Dardanes Bros.

But you are right. Our state should strive to be more like PA on the PA level.

[Videosurfer]

I think there were 90 kids from PA in the tourney.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by James_Oliva

Good points. I don't know if Radtke (?) and Foreside were ever D1AA candidates in my mind. I just can't think of many Montini kids other than Benefiel and Beebe who were as good in HS as Blanton, Futrell, Ramos or the Dardanes Bros.

But you are right. Our state should strive to be more like PA on the PA level.

Actually Chase Beebe another 4 time state champ who beat numerous D1 prospects from Il AA was also considered a solid D1 AA candidate. College wrestling didnt work out for him but he did have a great MMA career until the past couple years.

And Carl Foreside when he was only a junior lost in the championship to Blanton 8-6 in what some consider one of the best finals in recent history because Blanton was dominant that year until he met the younger Foreside.Spangler took 3rd that year. Foreside was then champ the next year.

Foreside is also # 5 all time in most wins in a season. A list that is completely dominated by Montini wrestlers.

I am also pretty sure Radtke beat one of the other wrestlers you mentioned.

I have seen Cubs say that some of these Montini guys were not really D1 AA prospects but the record books and fact they beat guys that did go on to be AA paints a different picture.

[ynotwrestle2]

So how do we change this in IL. As long as kids keep scoring on their feet they will continue to cut and go for the takedown. It's sorta like the chicken and the egg. Why should I ride if I can keep taking the guy down and he may reverse me if I make a mistake on top. For this to change two things need to happen 1. better defense on your feet/scrambling to prevent the easy takedowns. 2. Push better technique on top and bottom in order to ride and turn opponents or escape/reverse. Maybe they should get rid of the option of giving the bottom man the escape point and starting on your feet. I know the top man can still cut him but maybe it would be an incentive to ride?

[wrestlingnut]

Of course the IL state takedown champion was a 4X D1 AA,

[tilt]

Originally Posted by ynotwrestle2

So how do we change this in IL. As long as kids keep scoring on their feet they will continue to cut and go for the takedown. It's sorta like the chicken and the egg. Why should I ride if I can keep taking the guy down and he may reverse me if I make a mistake on top. For this to change two things need to happen 1. better defense on your feet/scrambling to prevent the easy takedowns. 2. Push better technique on top and bottom in order to ride and turn opponents or escape/reverse. Maybe they should get rid of the option of giving the bottom man the escape point and starting on your feet. I know the top man can still cut him but maybe it would be an incentive to ride?

1. Model your wrestling coaching style after a guy like Siebert at CS who as a great former D1 wrestler teaches his guys to wrestle in all 3 positions.
2. Parents and fans of Montini need to encourage the Montini coaches to stop the nonsense of constant td and cut techs. Montini coaches should emphasize turning and riding and spend more time on bottom wrestling than the constant takedowns.

With all the accolades that Montini has mounted over the past 10 years .....I just can't believe in private circles there is not discussion on this matter? If I plunked down 50k for a wrestling education you better believe I would ask that Izzy spends a ton of time with my kid on mat wrestling if I knew he wanted to compete in college.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by wrestlingnut

Of course the IL state takedown champion was a 4X D1 AA,

And where did this takedown champion that was a Martinez product go to hs?

Naper North, where he worked with guys like Arlis and Champion that are big on wrestling in all positions.

Saving the 50k on Montini, which is where everyone at the time thought he was going sure seemed to work out for Mr Tannenbaum .

[James_Oliva]

Originally Posted by tilt

Actually Chase Beebe another 4 time state champ who beat numerous D1 prospects from Il AA was also considered a solid D1 AA candidate. College wrestling didnt work out for him but he did have a great MMA career until the past couple years.

And Carl Foreside when he was only a junior lost in the championship to Blanton 8-6 in what some consider one of the best finals in recent history because Blanton was dominant that year until he met the younger Foreside.Spangler took 3rd that year. Foreside was then champ the next year.

Foreside is also # 5 all time in most wins in a season. A list that is completely dominated by Montini wrestlers.

I am also pretty sure Radtke beat one of the other wrestlers you mentioned.

I have seen Cubs say that some of these Montini guys were not really D1 AA prospects but the record books and fact they beat guys that did go on to be AA paints a different picture.

Chase Beebe was a 1A kid. Not to knock 1A, but I'm not so sure he would've won a single 2A title.

Carl Foreside was predominantly a thrower. Sure he had a good low single as well, but he scored a lot of points off of throws. I can't think of many AA who's style centered on lateral drops. Sure there are guys like Dylan Ness or Quentin Wright who throw as part of their arsenal, but it didn't define who they were as wrestlers.

Just being a good high school wrestler doesn't mean you are going to be a good college wrestler let alone an all-american. I knew a lot state champions who weren't very good college wrestlers. To call someone an AA candidate out of high school (unless they've won Fargo titles) is incredibly presumptuous. There's so much that goes into whether or not kid is going to be a success, beyond talent.

While I don't think Montini has gotten a whole lot of 'RAW' kids, I do think their coaches have maximized their potential as high school wrestlers, which is their job as coaches.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by James_Oliva

Chase Beebe was a 1A kid. Not to knock 1A, but I'm not so sure he would've won a single 2A title.

Carl Foreside was predominantly a thrower. Sure he had a good low single as well, but he scored a lot of points off of throws. I can't think of many AA who's style centered on lateral drops. Sure there are guys like Dylan Ness or Quentin Wright who throw as part of their arsenal, but it didn't define who they were as wrestlers.

Just being a good high school wrestler doesn't mean you are going to be a good college wrestler let alone an all-american. I knew a lot state champions who weren't very good college wrestlers. To call someone an AA candidate out of high school (unless they've won Fargo titles) is incredibly presumptuous. There's so much that goes into whether or not kid is going to be a success, beyond talent.

While I don't think Montini has gotten a whole lot of 'RAW' kids, I do think their coaches have maximized their potential as high school wrestlers, which is their job as coaches.

Actually Chase Beebe beat alot of AA kids that were champs and placers. My guess is he would have still been a 2 or 3 time champ in AA and certainly a 4 time placer.
Foreside was a thrower. All that I would rather throw you than know you garbage that does NOT work at the college level. But his dad was smart enough to get him to Montini,albeit late in his career. And thats why there was alot of hype about his potential in college.....because he only had solid coaching late in the game and had the chance to improve alot if/when he learned to mat wrestle.
If maximizing talent is defined by Illinois state placers or champs then yes Montini has maximized their kids talent.
If maximizing a kids talent means great Illinois hs state careers and wrestling all 3 positions so that college wrestling is an easy transition.....then Montini as a college prep wrestling school has failed thus far.