Oklahoma State, IL recruiting

[mckbln]

Originally Posted by Flobro

Another big factor for Pennsylvania's superiority at NCAA's is the high number of D-1 wrestling programs inside the state. Not sure if it's been mentioned yet, but their 15 (!) programs is triple that of Ohio, New York, Jersey and the 4 programs here in Illinois. There's a ton of opportunities for PA high schoolers right in their back yards. At nationals last weekend, PA led all states with a ridiculous 56 qualifiers, 25 of which remained in-state and wrestled for schools close to home. In contrast, Illinois totaled 21 qualifiers (with just 7 representing U of I, Northwestern, or NIU).

Even with improved technique, it's a big challenge for any state (Ohio, NY, NJ, CA, or IL) to close the gap on those numbers!

That's a good point.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by sweetsweep22

I'm not trying to take a shot at anyone here, but does Izzy even know how to teach kids to ride/turn?

Izzy Martinez was a little before my time, so I never saw him wrestle personally, but as I understand it he was pretty much unstoppable on his feet and an absolute takedown machine (much like Albert White, but even better, I've been told). But did he ever ride anyone himself? Maybe the reason he doesn't emphasize riding/turning is because he never really did it himself...

Again, I could be wrong, I'm just wondering

Jose teaches lots of chain wrestling from the mat.And he is very good at it. But the overall emphasis is TD and let em up. You see it at Montini too.

You do bring up a valid question. Izzy went to Harper and basically destroyed his competition in route to a National title. But he pretty much continued his hs style at junior college. He was supposed to wrestle at Iowa but things didn't work out before he got started. So he never spent time in a D1 school where he would have been forced to quickly develop his mat skills.

Various Illinois hs produce between 3 to 12 college AAs each year. At any given time we have between 5 to 15 ranked International style wrestlers.

Meanwhile , Montini (our best or consistently best hs) has produced no college AAs and does not have any alum that are Internationally ranked.

So I am absolutely convinced that when our best hs emphasizes more of a mat style and gets their guys more in the habit of working turns against good competition we will see our college AA numbers go up.

[wrestlersdad]

Originally Posted by mckbln

When it comes to Benefiel that statement is crap. He was the whole package. When he beat Albert White head-to-head at the Dvorak tournament, I was convinced he was the best wrestler I had seen in Illinois. Whatever happened to Mikey probably has more to do upstairs than it has to do with wrestling ability, at least that would be my guess.

I am not disagreeing with you, I too thought he was going to be THE college stud. He was beating everybody in high school, but I remember seeing him at the Kaufmann Brand and he was looking good until he ended up getting totally rode in a match, he could not get off the bottom. I know it was only one match and I don't remember who he wrestled, I just remember coming away thinking he was not very good on bottom and remember hearing that his problem in college was getting off bottom. Again, small sample size and may not be relevant, but I would have bet the farm he was going to win a NCAA championship, let alone AA.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by wrestlingnut

Tannenbaum won his first Big Ten championship 3-2 against Henning from Wisc (who went on to be a NCAA finalist two years later) scoring all points from a refersal and riding point. He won his second Big Ten championship against 4X AA, 3X finalist, and 2X NCAA Champ Mark Perry by riding Perry out the entire second period.

He was better on his feet, but pretty good too on the mat.

Dead on. He was a takedown machine and was strongly influenced by Martinez.

But I watched alot of Tannenbaum hs matches and I saw Champion and Arliss encourage him to work turns against good competition when he could have just continued the TD and let up game and went for a tech. So yes, at the hs level he was working on his all around game in preparation for college.

I posted a match of his in college......like that match many of his big wins came by escaping and riding and turning really good guys.....and NOT by just a TD.
Thats why he was AA multiple times.

[Cubs84]

Originally Posted by sweetsweep22

I'm not trying to take a shot at anyone here, but does Izzy even know how to teach kids to ride/turn?

Izzy Martinez was a little before my time, so I never saw him wrestle personally, but as I understand it he was pretty much unstoppable on his feet and an absolute takedown machine (much like Albert White, but even better, I've been told). But did he ever ride anyone himself? Maybe the reason he doesn't emphasize riding/turning is because he never really did it himself...

Again, I could be wrong, I'm just wondering

He was ranked number one ahead of izzy one year and both undefeated. Went into overtime and izzy lost the flip and he had to ride him or lose and everyone in the gym including me thought he was done. Craig Javo just looked at me and said he'll turn him and I laughed at him til oneill was on his back. Game over buddy. You guys are getting a little carried away about the izzy bashing. He has been the head coach at Montini for two years both state titles. He lost one match in high school on a body slam. He trained Ramos who took third in the NCAA, Blanton who took fourth and yeah I know keep telling me the bs about not riding and all that. The guy has a special talent and so does his dad period. To come on here and criticize them because they don't know how to ride is a bunch of **** but I've come to expect it from you people. How about comin on here and complimenting a kid or a coach instead of being a jealous hater. I think these kids achieved at the highest level and what do we bring up? How theyre coaches don't know what to do.

[Cubs84]

Originally Posted by wrestlersdad

I am not disagreeing with you, I too thought he was going to be THE college stud. He was beating everybody in high school, but I remember seeing him at the Kaufmann Brand and he was looking good until he ended up getting totally rode in a match, he could not get off the bottom. I know it was only one match and I don't remember who he wrestled, I just remember coming away thinking he was not very good on bottom and remember hearing that his problem in college was getting off bottom. Again, small sample size and may not be relevant, but I would have bet the farm he was going to win a NCAA championship, let alone AA.

but Mikeys problem wasnt getting off the bottom or his coach or style. Not every kid wants to go to college. Maybe he didn't have the desire to go through 4 years or 5. But for you to take one period of a match and judge how good he is cuz he got rode is actually pretty silly. He graduated as a 4x state champ the all time wins leader in illinois, gave Blanton (an all american) his only loss and it was a pretty dominating performance. Won iron man went undefeated his senior year which hasn't happenned very often at Montini. But go ahead judge him for 2 minutes of his career Mr Gable

[advocate]

Originally Posted by Cubs84

... How about comin on here and complimenting a kid or a coach instead of being a jealous hater.

My son is pretty good on top. This year (as a freshman) I believe he had more than 40 pins wrestling a national schedule, pinning kids who were multiple state champs and Jr Fargo All Americans.
An IL kid who wrestled for Jose Martinez ... imagine that.

[wrestlingnut]

Originally Posted by Cubs84

but Mikeys problem wasnt getting off the bottom or his coach or style. Not every kid wants to go to college. Maybe he didn't have the desire to go through 4 years or 5. But for you to take one period of a match and judge how good he is cuz he got rode is actually pretty silly. He graduated as a 4x state champ the all time wins leader in illinois, gave Blanton (an all american) his only loss and it was a pretty dominating performance. Won iron man went undefeated his senior year which hasn't happenned very often at Montini. But go ahead judge him for 2 minutes of his career Mr Gable

No one is judging Mike as a person; or anyone else for that matter. Certainly no one is judging his wrestling career on two minutes. Mike was a solid college wrestler, just couldn't put it all together to AA. His problem with upper level D1 wrestlers was getting out from bottom. I think he would have made AA his last year. One thing is clear, dominating in HS doesn't always translate into success at the college level.

[tilt]

Originally Posted by wrestlingnut

No one is judging Mike as a person; or anyone else for that matter. Certainly no one is judging his wrestling career on two minutes. Mike was a solid college wrestler, just couldn't put it all together to AA. His problem with upper level D1 wrestlers was getting out from bottom. I think he would have made AA his last year. One thing is clear, dominating in HS doesn't always translate into success at the college level.

Wrestlingnut you are dead on right. But its hopeless.

You can recognize Izzy as one of the greatest wrestlers ever produced in Illinois, as a top 5 coach, and Montini as the best program in Illinois.......all of which I have said many many times on this board......but as soon as you identify one flaw to the system......yep,one flaw.......even though that flaw is obvious many wrestling people on here.......you will be called overly critical and making it personal.

Montini people believe there is NO flaw to the Montini system. They do everything perfect. Larry even said their wrestlers wrestle whatever style they want to and basically implied there is NO IZZY STYLE. They have just been very unlucky to never have any AAs or International guys........and because their insiders really believe this I personally don't think we will see their guys on the AA stand in the near future. But time will tell.

I hoped I was wrong about Benefiel because he is a good guy.Cubs said he didnt make it because of school.....but that was just this past year....two years in a row he could have been AA but was rode out in the matches that would have gotten him to the medal round. Its very possible it would have happened again this year because 174 was a brutal weight class.

But personally I'm done with this subject .....nothing will change when a successful program believes they are perfect and don't need to improve in a specific area.

[larry b]

Guess I should have said my kids wrestled the style they chose. Chase I believe wrestled about 1 min at state for his senior year,on the way to the title. Also believe the year he wrestled at Purdue about 40% of his wins were by fall . Carson was never a take um down guy.Tilt this all started with some of your misinformation, but you do make some valid points.