Heartland Duals/And back/nearfall points

[pcc club coach]

One rule differece from our state's that was intriguing. In Nebraska to get back points the wrestler has to be at a 45 degree angle with back exposure and/or 4 inches from the mat. Unlike, ILL's 90 degree rule. Which made from some interesting discussions on why kids were NOT being awarded back points.
Who is right. ?
The ref also said this is a USA rule.
I kind of like it the way Nebraska called it, took away the cheap tips a lot and made one have to really secure one and control one to get back points.
What are your thoughts on this?

[Grit]

I would agree, I would like to see it called that way as well

[DJV]

Criteria for a near fall occur when any part of both shoulders or both scapulae of the defensive wrestler are held within 4 inches of the mat or less: or when one shoulder or scapula of the defensive wrestler is touching the mat and the other shoulder or scapula of the defensive wrestler is held at an angle of 45 degrees or less with the mat; or when the defensive wrestler is held in a high bridge or on both elbows.

[DJV]

as there are some referees that think that it is 90 degrees, as that is the rule for freestyle, however folkstyle has always been 45 degrees. In addition some officials use the sign of the hand with palm and fingers at a 90 degree angle to the mat up and down to indicate that a wrestler has not met the criteria for a near fall, which by the way is not an official referees' signal and therefore should not be used.

With that said it can be very difficult to determine when the 45 degree angle is broken AND held for at least two seconds in some situations.

[pcc club coach]

Originally Posted by DJV

as there are some referees that think that it is 90 degrees, as that is the rule for freestyle, however folkstyle has always been 45 degrees. In addition some officials use the sign of the hand with palm and fingers at a 90 degree angle to the mat up and down to indicate that a wrestler has not met the criteria for a near fall, which by the way is not an official referees' signal and therefore should not be used.

With that said it can be very difficult to determine when the 45 degree angle is broken AND held for at least two seconds in some situations.

So why in IL do we use the 90 degree rule? If it is 45 with USA wrestling, our governing body. I know we do not use their age chart. Just curious?? I have even heard the refs in our state, defining the back points, as not met the criteria of being over 90.

Thanks for showing me the rule, Do not have my rules book with me.

[Nelson*0.5]

Originally Posted by pcc club coach

So why in IL do we use the 90 degree rule? If it is 45 with USA wrestling, our governing body. I know we do not use their age chart. Just curious?? I have even heard the refs in our state, defining the back points, as not met the criteria of being over 90.

Thanks for showing me the rule, Do not have my rules book with me.

Have to say, PCC Coach, you are mistaken if you believe that we user 90° at any level for folkstyle in IL. The IKWF, IHSA , IESA, AAU, NUWAY all use NFHS rules for folkstyle wrestling with minimal modifications and the rule for nearfall is not one that is modified for any of these organizations. The rule is and always has been 45°. Think about all the refs that you see at various tournaments who hold their hand at a 90° angle to the mat and tap it for all the fans and coaches to see to indicate to those who are watching and screaming for nearfall that the offensive wrestler had not secured the necessary angle of exposure for the ref to begin his count. 90° for freestyle and greco, 45° for folkstyle.

[pcc club coach]

Originally Posted by Nelson*0.5

Have to say, PCC Coach, you are mistaken if you believe that we user 90° at any level for folkstyle in IL. The IKWF, IHSA , IESA, AAU, NUWAY all use NFHS rules for folkstyle wrestling with minimal modifications and the rule for nearfall is not one that is modified for any of these organizations. The rule is and always has been 45°. Think about all the refs that you see at various tournaments who hold their hand at a 90° angle to the mat and tap it for all the fans and coaches to see to indicate to those who are watching and screaming for nearfall that the offensive wrestler had not secured the necessary angle of exposure for the ref to begin his count. 90° for freestyle and greco, 45° for folkstyle.

Well a lot of coaches and officials, are calling it or for it at 90 and nice job this weekend.

[refsforfun]

PM me with names of any officials who have called 90 degree nearfalls so I can make sure I talk with them and correct them. It is 45 degrees and not 90 and as long as I have been officiating and coaching it has been 45 degrees.

[pcc club coach]

Originally Posted by refsforfun

PM me with names of any officials who have called 90 degree nearfalls so I can make sure I talk with them and correct them. It is 45 degrees and not 90 and as long as I have been officiating and coaching it has been 45 degrees.

The other coaches, at the dual were the ones questioning back points with the Nebraska officials. So I am definitely not alone in this thought. And all the refs in IL should be reminded it is 45 andd 4 inches. (if that is indeed the case in IL). I may need to ask Jim Harsh and or Dan Fulcher for a ruling on this. And a lot of the young, green officials need to be reminded of this. Because i see over 90 as pts every weekend.

As one can tell from the beginning of this post. I said I prefer that type of officiating. I do NOT think it is done in IL, by a lot of officials, to name names of officials on this would be pretty silly.
However, a lot of coaches are misinformed also.

[petersenkid2]

Originally Posted by pcc club coach

Alot of coaches are misinformed also.

I think the correct term would be "uninformed".

90 degrees for international styles, 45 degrees + 2 seconds for folkstyle.

Rule 5, Section 11, articles 2 and 5 of the NFHS rule book (page 22-23) pretty much sums it up. C'mon, invest the $7.20.

As Brad Hamilton once said to Jeff Spiccoli... "Read it, know it, live it."

It is possible to be an IKWF referee without having ever read the rule book. There is no written or practical test given to gain such status.
Many IKWF referees take advantage of this and have never read the rule book.

I think it is safe to say that only a select few IKWF coaches own a rule book or even know where to buy one.