Penn State

[bigvern77]

Originally Posted by lookleft goright

Bigvern, you are trying to punish an entity -PSU, for the crimes of individuals. The individuals did these sickening crimes not an entity. The sick bastards who did the crime and the cowardly puds who covered it up should and most likely will be punished (if not in this life then in the next). How do you punish an entity?
That is what IO am trying to convey. Your anger at something that is not tangible is going to make you crazy. Sandusky is behind bars and Paterno is dead and whoever else involved has a huge burden on their conscience that will weigh them down and catch up with them eventually. Let the law catch who they may, but lets not try to punish an entity and punish innocent kids instead.
By the way, you will never see me with a "We are Penn State" shirt on.

No need to argue. I feel the way I feel and you are an idiot!

[CONDOR]

Actually the logic that went into these penalties was pretty good, especially by NCAA standards. If you believe the Freeh report which both the current administration at Penn State & the NCAA board do then the cover-up was orchestrated as to not have any bad publicity for the football program that might hurt in recruiting and donations from boosters. Therefore the penalties must be worse than whatever money or recruits they would have lost if they would have done the right thing in the 1st place. Otherwise you are just saying it was a smart decision to cover it up and keep the football team and it's coaches idolized at that institution.

[matrat7]

At least PSU finally cooperated with an investigation. ND is still uncooperative with the investigation of the St. Mary's student who said she was raped by ND football players.

[bigvern77]

Originally Posted by matrat7

At least PSU finally cooperated with an investigation. ND is still uncooperative with the investigation of the St. Mary's student who said she was raped by ND football players.

When did Penn State cooperate? After is was proven that Sandusky raped at least 20 boys over a 20 year period? They only agreed to the Freeh report because they didn't want the NCAA to do a full investigaation and risk the death penalty. They "settled" for this penalty because instead of killing their program it merely crippled it for a decade or so.

Not that it's right, but EVERY program has incidents like the one that happened to the St. Mary's student. Unfortunately and tragically the woman involved decided to take her own life and we may never know the "real" story. Also unfortunate is the FACT that a lot of these claims are investigated and found to be false and/or erroneous!

"In fact Michael A. Dvorak, the prosecuting attorney for St. Joseph County, said that his office has received a completed report from Notre Dame campus police regarding the alleged Aug. 31 assault of Elizabeth Seeberg and will decide whether further action is warranted. "I wish to emphasize that cases involving such allegations are complex and it would be inappropriate to rush to conclusions, rather than allowing the thorough review by prosecutors to occur in this matter," Dvorak said."

When did ND not cooperate? They had a complete report.

Besides, just because you don't like ND and feel the need to poo poo them, has absolutely nothing to do with the horrific events that occurred at Penn St. or the statements I made about being a ND fan. Nobody has EVER been convicted of raping that girl, let alone being convicted of raping NO FEWER than 20 boys over a 20 year period while his peers and colleagues covered it up and/or turned the other way!

[matrat7]

Believe it or not I actually am a ND fan. However, I would never send my children to that school after reading and hearing about the corruption that goes on there. I know there's two sides to every story but this one is eerily similar to PSU's as far as "lack of organizational control."

http://m.deadspin.com/5897809/this-i...assaulting-you

[bigvern77]

Originally Posted by matrat7

Believe it or not I actually am a ND fan. However, I would never send my children to that school after reading and hearing about the corruption that goes on there. I know there's two sides to every story but this one is eerily similar to PSU's as far as "lack of organizational control."

http://m.deadspin.com/5897809/this-i...assaulting-you

No need to re-read the story. My cousin was her roommate.

There is more there than what was reported.

As you said, "There's two sides to every story."

I am guessing you will never send your children to any college. EVERY school has something that is similar to this.

[lookleft goright]

At least PSU finally cooperated with an investigation. ND is still uncooperative with the investigation of the St. Mary's student who said she was raped by ND football players.


The people cooperate when the gig is up and that is the only way to lessen the punishment. The people at PSU who were guilty did not cooperate any more than they had to nor any sooner than they had to.

What amazes me is that no one is saying anything about how rotten homosexuals are. After all, it was a homosexual who did these horrible crimes to those kids. Oh I know why that is. It is because it would be stupid to lump all homesexuals into the same category as this animal. It is just as stupid in my mind to lump all of PSU into this category also. That is what I am trying to get at.
Somehow my intent or message got lost and now BIGVERN thinks I am an idiot. Oh well here goes again.
Punish the people who were guilty. Going to jail as in Sandusky's case seems close to a just punishment. But sanctioning the football team, does not seem even close to just for all the people who covered this up. Cutting out their tongue (since they did not feel the urge to use it) may be a just punishment. But reducing scholarships - really. Does that even make sense? Hurting their wallet seems a bit tame to me.

[mckbln]

I think the saddest part about this whole ordeal is the fact that this became a Penn St/football story; it's NOT. I think the NCAA did an incredibly stupid thing with the sanctions because they basically punish a lot of folks who had NOTHING to do with the incident. I say again, this is NOT a football story; it's not about a coach or program that cheated or committed recruiting violations, etc. It's NOT about Joe Paterno and his legacy. This is a story about criminal conduct. It's about a sick man, a pedaphile, who raped children. He was found guilty and is being punished. Those that were involved in the cover-up are going to be punished. I could care less about the impact this will have on Joe Paterno's so-called "legacy" because outside of being morally hypocritcal to a large extent (like the comments he made about Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill), JoPa still made many, many positive contributions. One horrendous lapse of judgement does not change that fact nor the silly "vacated wins".
What all of this does is divert attention from the main issue which is about the victims...and prevention. It was a criminal investigation and what the NCAA did is pretty much slam the barn door shut long after the horses escaped and then whip every other animal in the barnyard.

In fact Big Vern77, both your threads are titled about Penn St and Joe Paterno...and not about Jerry Sandusky, pedophilia, and child abuse/rape.

[Hanging out in Cali]

Why did the administrators cover it up? They were protecting their own and the school's interests. They were acting on PSU's behalf. They represented the school and knew children were being raped and kept quiet so the school could profit. 20 years of booster donations and bowl money and sponsorships to pay for facilities, statues, trips, etc. All of it earned while they looked the other way. Why are the students, alumni, athletes and others being punished for something they did not do? They profited from the rape of boys. They did not know it but the reputation, the recruits, the donations, the facilities-all of it was gotten due to the cover up. The school is responsible and all that reaped the benefits will now suffer the punishment. There could be no other way. I do not know how anybody could look around that campus and not wonder what was paid for with the money earned by the cover up. I would be ashamed to be a part of that university. I honestly do not understand how someone of you cannot see that. Imagine you sent your kid to Joe Pa's football camp where a grown man showered with your kid and then sodomized him. Imagine that Joe Pa and the university knew he was doing it and did nothing about it because they stood to lose millions over it. How could you not see that the university and its football team deserved to be punished. They should have received the death penalty. By the way, there is a huge difference between pedophiles and homosexuals for you homophobes. Shocking, absolutely shocking!

[restling]

Originally Posted by mckbln

I think the saddest part about this whole ordeal is the fact that this became a Penn St/football story; it's NOT. I think the NCAA did an incredibly stupid thing with the sanctions because they basically punish a lot of folks who had NOTHING to do with the incident. I say again, this is NOT a football story; it's not about a coach or program that cheated or committed recruiting violations, etc. It's NOT about Joe Paterno and his legacy. This is a story about criminal conduct. It's about a sick man, a pedaphile, who raped children. He was found guilty and is being punished. Those that were involved in the cover-up are going to be punished. I could care less about the impact this will have on Joe Paterno's so-called "legacy" because outside of being morally hypocritcal to a large extent (like the comments he made about Barry Switzer and Jackie Sherrill), JoPa still made many, many positive contributions. One horrendous lapse of judgement does not change that fact nor the silly "vacated wins".
What all of this does is divert attention from the main issue which is about the victims...and prevention. It was a criminal investigation and what the NCAA did is pretty much slam the barn door shut long after the horses escaped and then whip every other animal in the barnyard.

In fact Big Vern77, both your threads are titled about Penn St and Joe Paterno...and not about Jerry Sandusky, pedophilia, and child abuse/rape.

Probably a Boers and Bernstein fan, of the score 670. They do the same thing everyday.