Greco & freestyle

[mckbln]

At the risk of being redundant...
The U.S. men's freestyle team had it's best showing since Atlanta with two gold medals and a bronze, plus a 5th place and Herbert clearly in the mix. So it begs the question, why did the freestyle team do so well and the Greco team do so poorly? The Greco-Roman team only won one medal in Bejiing so I figured there was NO WAY that could do worse in London. Oops...and to put it in perspective, they were as bad as U.S. men's boxing...and if you watched, you know how bad that was. It's time for a serious shake-up in the program.

[LeslieChow]

Mack, you are right on the money. A shake-up is in order. I think it will be a slow process though, and needs to be a bottom-up change.

Par Terre defense (and offense) was a huge disappointment.

I thought the freestyle team had a legit shot at 5 medals (Tervel and Herbert were both close). Tactically, they adjusted to the European style of defense first, control the circle and open up with about 20 seconds left, leaving no time on the clock to counter with a score.

I was really impressed with Varner's ability to defend for extended time as he did in both periods of the GOLD Medal Match. Burroughs did the same, but for the first 3/4's of both periods.

Clearly there was talk of defense first strategy. Burroughs talked about it after his match. He mentioned that he felt he could take Goudarzi down at any point, but felt the Iranian wrestled better in desperation mode, so he waited until short time was left on the clock. If Burroughs can reign in the offense, it tells you something about the strategy involved.

[Greenskin]

Originally Posted by LeslieChow

Mack, you are right on the money. A shake-up is in order. I think it will be a slow process though, and needs to be a bottom-up change.

Par Terre defense (and offense) was a huge disappointment.

I thought the freestyle team had a legit shot at 5 medals (Tervel and Herbert were both close). Tactically, they adjusted to the European style of defense first, control the circle and open up with about 20 seconds left, leaving no time on the clock to counter with a score.

I was really impressed with Varner's ability to defend for extended time as he did in both periods of the GOLD Medal Match. Burroughs did the same, but for the first 3/4's of both periods.

Clearly there was talk of defense first strategy. Burroughs talked about it after his match. He mentioned that he felt he could take Goudarzi down at any point, but felt the Iranian wrestled better in desperation mode, so he waited until short time was left on the clock. If Burroughs can reign in the offense, it tells you something about the strategy involved.

Not a lot of support for those that feel freestyle is more exciting than folkstyle. We need to find a way to make them wrestle. Since we have little influence over international rule making and officiating it appears we will have to change our style to effectively compete. Sadly, the higher the level in the sport, the less interesting it becomes from a spectator's point of view.

[LeslieChow]

I didn't find it boring. I thought the positioning and desire was compelling to watch. BTW, did anyone watch the Kumar/Tanatarov semifinal match at 66kg. That was a brawl that ended in what appeared to me to be an ear bite. I can't find the video for this one.

Wait, found video, and yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7np_P25J93c

Also, check this out...at the 3:28 mark, does the Cuban deliver at Fatality?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/wre...dal-match.html

[Flobro]

Originally Posted by LeslieChow

I didn't find it boring. I thought the positioning and desire was compelling to watch. BTW, did anyone watch the Kumar/Tanatarov semifinal match at 66kg. That was a brawl that ended in what appeared to me to be an ear bite. I can't find the video for this one.

Wait, found video, and yes...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7np_P25J93c

Also, check this out...at the 3:28 mark, does the Cuban deliver at Fatality?

http://www.nbcolympics.com/video/wre...dal-match.html

Now we're rambling way off the original topic, but that bodylock plant-job the Cuban 66kg delivered was the move of the tournament. Nice call... And I love the stern warning the ref issues Lopez when he got too excited and slapped Hasonov after the finish. Lol

And the Tyson-esque ear bite in the 66kg semi was gruesome. Evander Holyfield, er, the Kazak wrestler had to take about an hour-and-a-half of blood time to get that cleaned up. Yuck.

[greenlantern]

I will give it a go. Greco you need to have flawless technical skills and tactics. Freestyle you can get by on being the excepetional athlete or doing a few things very well. Folkstyle helps with freestyle imo and think 2016 will be better.
21 - simmons or someone who can win the clinch postion 32- coleman scott , reece or steiber 45, jordan oliver 63 burroughs followed by dake 84 gold medalist ed ruth 211 varner hwt dleglav or the next kerry mmcoy out there

[Jaguar]

Originally Posted by mckbln

At the risk of being redundant...
The U.S. men's freestyle team had it's best showing since Atlanta with two gold medals and a bronze, plus a 5th place and Herbert clearly in the mix. So it begs the question, why did the freestyle team do so well and the Greco team do so poorly? The Greco-Roman team only won one medal in Bejiing so I figured there was NO WAY that could do worse in London. Oops...and to put it in perspective, they were as bad as U.S. men's boxing...and if you watched, you know how bad that was. It's time for a serious shake-up in the program.

I could go on a long time. I am very frustrated. We need change.

[mckbln]

Originally Posted by Jaguar

I could go on a long time. I am very frustrated. We need change.

I hear ya. I know both you and I have watched this debacle continue from Bejiing and now in London. Both Greco and freestyle teams totally layed an egg in China. The difference is that the men's freestyle team managed to fix their problems and had a good showing in London...Greco went in the other direction. Sad but true.

[YAMA ARASHI]

Gent's I watched as much as I could find on the Olympics. With being fairly new to Greco and Freestyle I noticed a couple of things about the Greco squad. Position, position, position, from what I've learned from the Kirgans and watched from the Illinois coaches they all seem to say the same thing," Position". I will say that I find Greco to be facinating in that you have to be agressive but not too agressive and always in control of you and your oponent. I didn't see any agressiveness nor control.

If it is going to change from the "Bottom?" up I don't see how that will help. As for Par Tarre well I am clueless as to what is legal and what isn't. So Im not even going to try.

Freestyle boys, great performance agressive I think Cael's influence helped a great deal. Awesome collar tie and ankle picks.

Please forgive my spelling.

[James_Oliva]

Greco needs a change at the top. The team, with the exception of Byers, was fairly young and most probably have another cycle in them. Now, whom that would be, I have no clue. i have some ideas, but I don't know enough to say if they would be a solution or not. Basically, we need to get better in Par Tarre.

Freestyle did well and could have finished ahead of Russia/Georgia if Trevel hung on and Herbert didn't get hosed.

I still believe that we didn't send our best possible freestyle team. Cael probably would have gotten at least a bronze if he decided to come back, Simmons has done better than Haze Internationally. On the whole, I was pretty happy with freestyle.

To be honest, other than Burroughs and Scott, I wouldn't be surprised to see a complete turnover in Rio.