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  • Originally posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
    https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/22/u...tatistics.html

    You always just make stuff up. True - America is relatively safe, and the trend is toward becoming safer. But crime goes down in countries with tight gun controls also. And the mass shooting can increase within an overall downward murder trend, that really doesn't help you if you are shot. The only statistical link between legal gun ownership and shootings, is the more spouses end up shot. You are an expert, go stop the illegal gun sales.

    You are saying gun violence and mass shootings are not a problem, and that the United States is not statistically worse than other first world countries. So I wonder why the news even covers such typical events?

    ...at the Route 91 Harvest Country music festival on the Las Vegas Strip in Nevada. 1 gunman killed 58 people and wounded 413, with the ensuing panic bringing the injury total to 869. - Just one of many now common events.

    according to you, that is a sign things are getting better.

    I don't have a problem with guns, but I don't share you view on the direction of the issue. We need gun experts like you to solve the problem since you are such experts. We generally just hear we need to fix all mental illness - that will never happen. The arrow appears to be indicating mass shooting is going up, within murder going down. What happened in Aurora IL this year was worse in some ways - the guy was a felon that applied for a concealed carry permit - come on, that is how little laws are enforced.
    The single biggest weakness in the background check system right now is information sharing or identification of clearly troubled people. Texas church...IF the USAF had reported the Bad Conduct Discharge for felony spousal abuse to the Texas State Police, he would never have been able to purchase that AR-15 or ANY firearm. Parkland , FL...given all the incidents, this disturbed kid should have been on the radar. The Aurora felon, same story. In fact, go back to the Va Tech mass shooting...also an openly disturbed guy that ALSO flew under the radar. Now, here in Illinois because I have both a FOID and a CCL, my background check gets updated TWICE a day. As far as preventing the gang bangers, etc from obtaining guns...good luck with that. They purchase on the black market, straw purchases both in and out of state and law enforcement hasn't come close to slowing it down. On the plus side, both Maxons (Des Plaines) and Midwest Guns and Shooting Supplies (Lyons Twp) have busted crooks using the range and attempting to purchase firearms numerous times.
    sigpic


    "On the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away..."

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    • Originally posted by mckbln View Post
      The single biggest weakness in the background check system right now is information sharing or identification of clearly troubled people. Texas church...IF the USAF had reported the Bad Conduct Discharge for felony spousal abuse to the Texas State Police, he would never have been able to purchase that AR-15 or ANY firearm. Parkland , FL...given all the incidents, this disturbed kid should have been on the radar. The Aurora felon, same story. In fact, go back to the Va Tech mass shooting...also an openly disturbed guy that ALSO flew under the radar. Now, here in Illinois because I have both a FOID and a CCL, my background check gets updated TWICE a day. As far as preventing the gang bangers, etc from obtaining guns...good luck with that. They purchase on the black market, straw purchases both in and out of state and law enforcement hasn't come close to slowing it down. On the plus side, both Maxons (Des Plaines) and Midwest Guns and Shooting Supplies (Lyons Twp) have busted crooks using the range and attempting to purchase firearms numerous times.
      I feel sorry for the parents of these kids, but on the other hand most of them know or worried it was coming. The kid in Arizona that shot the rep - his parents tried to stop him driving off with a bag of guns and then did nothing. The parents of the kid that killed 6 people at NIU. Everyone knew he was crazy, but had no felonies I guess & the schools were not made aware. His parents tried to have that kid institutionalized, failed or was let out at 21, but yet there was nothing in the system to keep him from getting guns, and sent him off to college to be someone else's problem.

      A little more pressure needs to be put on the parents to do more of the right thing before these incidents. Not sure what that entails - except more trouble if you kid gets in trouble. I think there are a lot more crazy people out there than people realize - can't control them all or lock them up & likely most can find a gun at old grampas' house or somewhere. The US will never give up guns, so there really is not much a solution to be had - maybe just harder punishment for being involved in some way.
      There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

      Comment


      • https://patch.com/illinois/oakforest...rest-gun-range

        I announced a fresh soph tournament at Oak Forest I must’ve drove right past there. By the way, the hospitality room was second to none!
        Always support your local wrestling tournament concession stands!!!

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        • This happened in Texas, at a church that was NOT a gun free zone, and guess what?:

          https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...q3OLPCGMVVyfdc
          sigpic


          "On the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away..."

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          • What does a Texas church have to do with the coveted hospitality room?
            Always support your local wrestling tournament concession stands!!!

            Comment


            • Originally posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
              The US will never give up guns, so there really is not much a solution to be had - maybe just harder punishment for being involved in some way.
              You need to get over the silly notion that giving up guns would be a solution. Hypothetically if everyone in America voluntarily gave up their guns, you would not have gun crime...however there would still be crime, and criminals would have less fear of getting caught or even shot in the process of their crime. All forms of crime would get out of control.

              Thankfully you backed up a foolish statement with one that is based on commonsense. Most of the time there is a potential punishment that would have prevented the crime. If you want to stop jaywalking...30 days in jail should just about solve that issue. If you want to stop murder...a humiliating public execution will cure many would be killers. If you don't like the death penalty...force killers to work off a lifetime of restitution to the victims family. Criminals need to have something that they fear, happen to them when they get caught.
              Last edited by MAL; 12-30-2019, 12:20 AM.

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              • Originally posted by mckbln View Post
                This happened in Texas, at a church that was NOT a gun free zone, and guess what?:

                https://defensemaven.io/bluelivesmat...q3OLPCGMVVyfdc
                Wow your stupidity knows no bounds.

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                • Originally posted by HuffHall View Post
                  Wow your stupidity knows no bounds.
                  If that gunman would have known that he would be killed after shooting just 2 people he would have chosen a different church that was a gun free zone.

                  There is only one way to stop an active shooter...

                  Comment


                  • Originally posted by MAL View Post
                    You need to get over the silly notion that giving up guns would be a solution. Hypothetically if everyone in America voluntarily gave up their guns, you would not have gun crime...however there would still be crime, and criminals would have less fear of getting caught or even shot in the process of their crime. All forms of crime would get out of control.

                    Thankfully you backed up a foolish statement with one that is based on commonsense. Most of the time there is a potential punishment that would have prevented the crime. If you want to stop jaywalking...30 days in jail should just about solve that issue. If you want to stop murder...a humiliating public execution will cure many would be killers. If you don't like the death penalty...force killers to work off a lifetime of restitution to the victims family. Criminals need to have something that they fear, happen to them when they get caught.
                    I have always said on this site I am pro gun. I never said that the US should give up their guns. I said the US never would. I understand how you would mistake that because you are always looking to argue with whatever is written. You are like Don Quixote. I have suggested common sense, just do what other countries do that have guns but less shootings, but assume we are going to get more gun crazy. If everyone in the us always carried a gun all the time, my assumption is there would be more shootings. Most of the dopes that shoot people aren't crazy, just angry. What about my offer to never post again if you also never post again?
                    There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

                    Comment


                    • Originally posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
                      I have always said on this site I am pro gun. I never said that the US should give up their guns. I said the US never would. I understand how you would mistake that because you are always looking to argue with whatever is written. You are like Don Quixote. I have suggested common sense, just do what other countries do that have guns but less shootings, but assume we are going to get more gun crazy. If everyone in the us always carried a gun all the time, my assumption is there would be more shootings. Most of the dopes that shoot people aren't crazy, just angry. What about my offer to never post again if you also never post again?
                      Here are your words: "The US will never give up guns, so there really is not much a solution to be had"

                      This statement is a clear insinuation that getting rid of guns would or could lead to a solution. I disagree with that statement. I believe that getting rid of guns would cause more crime.

                      It is becoming clear that you have no idea what other countries are doing to limit gun crime.

                      I will concede that more guns will lead to more accidental shootings, but that is just a mathematical conclusion...more trees leads to more accidental deaths caused by falling branches. There are also other statistics about guns that would be similar to that one, but those statistics are trivial compared the affect of the 2nd amendment on criminal activity and government over reach.

                      I am going to miss your posts when you stop posting.

                      Comment


                      • Originally posted by MAL View Post
                        Here are your words: "The US will never give up guns, so there really is not much a solution to be had"

                        This statement is a clear insinuation that getting rid of guns would or could lead to a solution. I disagree with that statement. I believe that getting rid of guns would cause more crime.

                        It is becoming clear that you have no idea what other countries are doing to limit gun crime.

                        I will concede that more guns will lead to more accidental shootings, but that is just a mathematical conclusion...more trees leads to more accidental deaths caused by falling branches. There are also other statistics about guns that would be similar to that one, but those statistics are trivial compared the affect of the 2nd amendment on criminal activity and government over reach.

                        I am going to miss your posts when you stop posting.
                        You don't need to incorrectly read "insinuations" into my posts. I am pro-gun, but the US does not use common sense. That statement should have read more like "the Republicans will never make known felons like the shooter in Aurora IL give up their guns, ie - those American will not give their guns (willingly, and nobody want to go get them.)" I can deal with living in a violent country, I know people who have been shot, I know plenty who have been robbed in Chicago, I know people who had their guns stolen, part of the deal, it is people who start posting stupid stuff like its mental illness to blame that I post against - that is why I commented about the parents - mentally ill young men aren't going to stop themselves. The slippery slope thing is a bad argument. Other countries have just as many mentally ill & hunters - it is the system that makes the difference. All records of gun ownership are kept on paper in boxes and other ridiculous rules. I am just against denial and stupidity. The one good thing about the NRA is that they know more about who has guns than anybody, and it is their lists that will be used to clean them out from criminals.

                        Here is an article from scientific american that says otherwise to your comment. Why don't you site a dude in garage who just finished huffing paint like you usually do, and include 10 pages of rants like usual.

                        https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

                        supports what I said.
                        https://www.rand.org/research/gun-po...-policies.html

                        Countries that get better results. (The US is not even in the top 10 for hunting, there are guns in these countries.)
                        We have 30 shootings per Milion, next closest OF OTHER RICH COUNTRIES, is switzerland with 8.
                        https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...land-uk-canada
                        Last edited by Blonjuan44; 01-02-2020, 08:55 PM.
                        There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

                        Comment


                        • Originally posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
                          You don't need to incorrectly read "insinuations" into my posts. I am pro-gun, but the US does not use common sense. That statement should have read more like "the Republicans will never make known felons like the shooter in Aurora IL give up their guns, ie - those American will not give their guns (willingly, and nobody want to go get them.)" I can deal with living in a violent country, I know people who have been shot, I know plenty who have been robbed in Chicago, I know people who had their guns stolen, part of the deal, it is people who start posting stupid stuff like its mental illness to blame that I post against - that is why I commented about the parents - mentally ill young men aren't going to stop themselves. The slippery slope thing is a bad argument. Other countries have just as many mentally ill & hunters - it is the system that makes the difference. All records of gun ownership are kept on paper in boxes and other ridiculous rules. I am just against denial and stupidity. The one good thing about the NRA is that they know more about who has guns than anybody, and it is their lists that will be used to clean them out from criminals.

                          Here is an article from scientific american that says otherwise to your comment. Why don't you site a dude in garage who just finished huffing paint like you usually do, and include 10 pages of rants like usual.

                          https://www.scientificamerican.com/a...vidence-shows/

                          supports what I said.
                          https://www.rand.org/research/gun-po...-policies.html

                          Countries that get better results. (The US is not even in the top 10 for hunting, there are guns in these countries.)
                          We have 30 shootings per Milion, next closest OF OTHER RICH COUNTRIES, is switzerland with 8.
                          https://www.vox.com/policy-and-polit...land-uk-canada
                          Aurora is not exactly a Republican stronghold. They voted for the Democrat in the last 3 presidential elections...It sounds like you are saying that you want the Republicans to fix the problems caused by decades of socialism.

                          I am not sure how you can say that a human that murders another human doesn't have something wrong in their head. If you don't want to call it mental illness that's fine, but the problem with violent behavior is the decisions made in the head of the perpetrator. If you want to change those bad decisions made by criminals the only way is to implant information in their head that will change their actions...like you will die if you do that...or you will go to hell if you do that...you will spend the rest of your life in prison if you do that...etc There are any number of deterrents that have been proven to work in the past. I don't think shrinks or medication will solve their mental illness, in many cases those remedies may be the cause.

                          There is a reason that I look for complete statistics instead of studies. Statistics show what has actually happened.

                          You posted an opinion piece that was filled with studies. One study asked 5,000 people a question. Another study surveyed 14,000 people. Another study was on one town. A study usually reflects the authors belief system.

                          I usually like to look at the actual numbers and come to my own conclusions. When we look at the real and complete statistics, it tells a different story. We have more guns and less crime. That doesn't mean that there is no room for improvement. We have an unacceptable level of violence, but that VOX stat is intentionally deceptive. They focus on only gun homicide, not all homicides are crimes, however, all killings of humans are included in the definition of homicide. That includes self defense, police shootings, accidental shootings, but the big one that it includes is suicide. All those things are considered to be homicide. What that study does not include is, all homicides. If you look at all homicides you will get a different picture, and if you look at the various different types of homicide separately you will get the complete picture.

                          Comment


                          • Originally posted by MAL View Post
                            Aurora is not exactly a Republican stronghold.
                            Gun laws are not by neighborhood. Your arguments are terrible.
                            There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

                            Comment


                            • Originally posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
                              Gun laws are not by neighborhood. Your arguments are terrible.
                              You were blaming Republicans for not taking his guns. The law states that he should not have had a gun. You would have to find a Republican in Aurora before you could send him in to take the guns.

                              I think we can agree that Republicans and Democrats both agree that he should not have a gun. The problem in this situation is an enforcement issue. It could have been incompetence or the system is overwhelmed with enforcement issues. If the laws that are on the books now would have been enforced, he may have been disarmed, but the problem is that he could have just bought an illegal gun. I agree, take his guns, but that is not going to stop a motivated killer. Who knows what would have stopped him...the answer is in his head.

                              Comment


                              • Originally posted by MAL View Post
                                You were blaming Republicans for not taking his guns. The law states that he should not have had a gun. You would have to find a Republican in Aurora before you could send him in to take the guns.

                                I think we can agree that Republicans and Democrats both agree that he should not have a gun. The problem in this situation is an enforcement issue. It could have been incompetence or the system is overwhelmed with enforcement issues. If the laws that are on the books now would have been enforced, he may have been disarmed, but the problem is that he could have just bought an illegal gun. I agree, take his guns, but that is not going to stop a motivated killer. Who knows what would have stopped him...the answer is in his head.
                                The shooter was from Kane County, In 2008, Illinois-bred Barack Obama became the first Democrat to carry Kane County since Franklin Pierce in 1852. So save us the bs.

                                And not the City of Aurora's job. And you are wrong, convenience counts for a lot. The laws are so porous that he was able to legally buy a gun as a felon with 6 arrests.
                                And then missed again when he applied for a conceal carry permit as a felon.
                                Mathematically, and I know you hate facts and science, the only variable that can explain the high rate of mass shootings in America is its astronomical number of guns.

                                I am pro gun and pro science and pro fact, occasionally it is wrong, but most of the time it visibly correct. The NRA's dumb slippery slope argument is the problem, won't approve common sense because they feel any improvement in laws is bad for the manufacturers they represent. Yes, 85% of their money comes from gun makers, not your crazy uncle.

                                https://www.nytimes.com/2017/11/07/w...rnational.html

                                In the jungle they say eat what the monkeys eat, just do what works in other countries that have lots of guns but less shootings. It should be slightly harder to get a gun than getting it free with car purchase.
                                Last edited by Blonjuan44; 01-04-2020, 02:41 PM.
                                There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

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