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  • MAL
    replied
    If you drag these shooters through the crowded streets...throw some rotten eggs and tomatoes at them, and humiliate them in as many ways as you could think of just before you shoot them 10 times, starting with the extremities and working toward the kill shot. Problem solved...that was easy. There are only two things that would stop a crazy from killing...even if you have already taken their guns...those two things are fear and a gun...It doesn't matter what they are afraid of as long as the fear is greater than the crazy...if the crazy is insurmountable, then you need a gun.

    We already have background checks...he passed and bought the gun legally.

    Leave a comment:


  • HuffHall
    replied
    To me it's really about WHO is owning the guns. Any rational/sane person who wants to own a gun I have no problem with that. There must be a better way to weed out the crazies (mentally ill) from ever owning a firearm. The latest incident in Colo. clearly illustrates a man who should have never been able to legally purchase a weapon. Do we all agree on that?

    Leave a comment:


  • oldpioneer
    replied
    Oops. I meant gun store the Karen reference was actually a typo. I would definitely foster one. No one would know, nor would hear it, no one will see it, nothing. But the fact of the matter is I really don’t want one. I spent half of my teenage life sneaking in and out of houses. It’s not uncommon for me to get a bang on the window or door in the middle of the night someone needs a place to stay. I’m not paranoid. But I would worry that it could go off against someone. Quite frankly if somebody wanted to steal my property I would rather Let them have it then face some sort of third degree whatever court case even if I came out on top. The thing is there are two types of people those that keep it nearby at all times in those that keep it under lock and key. If it’s under lock and key the chances of you scrambling to find it in a surprise attack would be low. And if it is nearby it could end up in the wrong hands and all that stuff.

    I know nothing about guns and freely admit it. I will tell you one thing I am guilty of, creating incredibly secretive places to stash things. I’m a cabinet maker on the side. My father always told me a lock is only meant to keep an honest man honest. When you put a lock on something you should also put a bumper sticker that says break open valuable contents inside. However I can think of three times right off the top of my head that I built cabinets, a desk and entertainment Center where someone has followed me out the door when we settle on the price. Then they kind of whisper can you make a place where nobody could see like a trap door or something like that? They look surprised when I say yes how big? I don’t ask questions but when I finish there’s only gonna be two people that know where that is. The person who bought it and slid me the extra money, and myself and I I have no curiosity whatsoever what is in there it’s none of my business.

    guns are only going to get faster and more powerful. And with the Internet and all this other stuff they are going to be easier and easier to get. If I was a big law abiding Second Amendment guy I would be all for universal background checks, titling, in any kind of other reasonable Registration. In my mind, it would only make it more difficult for criminals to get a hold of them and just keep them for responsible gun owners and hunters. Right now, it sounds like it’s easier to buy a gun than it is for me to get an Illinois fishing license because I know I have to give my Social Security number to a 16 year old clerk at the sporting good store. This has nothing to do with politics to me it’s just common sense.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefIllini1
    replied
    A "Karen store"? You crack me up, oldpioneer. Haha!

    The question is whether you would provide a good foster home for a gun. This wouldn't be permanent. It would last just long enough to show what happens when guns are only owned by responsible people.

    We wouldn't need to do this if the supposedly responsible gun owners weren't scared of the gun fetish crazies and worked with us to get rid of assault rifles, large capacity magazines, the device that turns a semi-automatic into a functionally full-auto weapon and helped to implement reasonable background checks.

    Instead, they want all or nothing, and someday it will be nothing. Cheers!

    Leave a comment:


  • oldpioneer
    replied
    This actually makes a lot of sense. Everyone complains about Democrats being an office and they hide in the closet waiting for sleepy Joe to come take their guns. Truth is gun sales are through the roof. I have a buddy in Minnesota that stops by the local Karen store and talked to the owner. He said they can’t keep them on the shelves. It’s kind of like when I would get paid when I was a teenager I went right to the record store and was so proud of my purchase. And I’m not talking about a 16 gauge shotgun to go pheasant hunting or protect your home. I am talking about weapons of war that are used to have battlefield with people with extensive extensive training, and things still go wrong. And they brag about them. There’s one sure Tell that someone is a responsible gun owner. You never see it, you never hear it, and they never mention it. Not even in conversation let alone on social media. Gun nuts can say it’s to protect their home but I don’t know, I don’t know that much about guns but from what I understand a shotgun sprays a nice area that was stopping intruder in their tracks, Less likely to go through the wall and into the neighbors or outside and all that other stuff. Maybe it’s a phallic thing.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefIllini1
    replied
    .
    .

    As you may recall, we last left GHOST PREACHER to walk the dusty highways and byways of America preaching against the Gun. He became GHOST PREACHER years before that in Beaumont, Texas when he was working as a Texas Ranger attempting to apprehend a wanted fugitive. GHOST PREACHER would've survived that day, but when the customers at the restaurant heard a gunshot, they all pulled out their pistols, and he later succumbed to over 10,000 gunshot wounds. His story continues as he testifies in the halls of Congress...
    Ladies. Gentlemen. Republicans.

    I am here today to speak on behalf of the new Gun Adoption Program. As a victim of gun violence myself, and now as a ghost, I preach agin the gun. There is nothing more foul and impersonal than that cold gunmetal. It was devised to kill.

    And so I devised a plan to rid America of the problem.

    That plan is the Gun Adoption Program or "GAP." You see, what they say about Presidents also applies to guns and gunowners: "The person who wants to be President is least suited for the job."

    My friends, the person who wants to own a gun is the person least equipped to own a gun.

    Therefore, I'm proposing that every gun in America be handed over to the people who don't want guns. A mass adoption. I think that we would notice fewer stolen guns, fewer murders, fewer suicides and fewer gunfail accidents.

    I know that I, GHOST PREACHER, would keep my guns in a strong metal gunsafe, opened only with an intricate key devised and crafted by German engineers, and that that gunsafe would be placed inside an even larger and stronger gunsafe, and together, they would be dropped into the Sea.

    Now, then, can I get a "NO GUN"?

    Leave a comment:


  • dadudaman4
    replied
    Mal, you should know that facts don't matter to liberals. Idiots like the Chief will continue to push for gun control legislation, even though they know it won't do a thing to reduce violent crime. Suicide is the leading cause (60%) of gun related deaths in this country. Liberals would be better served by pushing for increased mental health funding. I, for one, would gladly pay for the Chief to receive mental health treatment.

    Leave a comment:


  • MAL
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefIllini1 View Post
    .

    I don't know why you think the police would still have guns. They'll figure out how to do their jobs like law enforcement in the UK.
    The UK has a much higher violent crime rate that has continued to escalate since the gun ban. UK facts are underlined.

    Guns in Other Countries

    Myth: Countries with strict gun control have less crime


    Fact: In America, we can demonstrate that private ownership of guns reduces crime, but from country to country there is no correlation between gun availability and the violent crime rate. Consider this:
    Crime Rate
    High Low
    Gun Availability High United States Switzerland
    Low Mexico Japan
    Or, to use detailed data, we can contrast the per capita homicide rate with the per capita gun ownership rate between different industrialized countries (see graph below). Contrasting the data shows zero correlation between the availability of guns and the overall homicide rate.

    Fact: Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates. 1

    Fact: According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America. 2

    Fact: “… the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.” 3

    Fact: Even if we examine just firearm ownership and firearm homicide by country, we see no correlation between the two. 4

    Fact: Switzerland has relatively lenient gun control for Europe 5, and has the third-lowest homicide rate of the top nine major European countries, and the same per capita rate as England and Wales, where restrictions are much tighter. 6

    Fact: Indeed, the Swiss basically have a military rifle in nearly every closest. “Everybody who has served in the army is allowed to keep their personal weapon, even after the end of their military service.” 7

    Fact: “We don’t have as many guns [in Brazil] as the United States, but we use them more.” 8 Brazil has mandatory licensing, registration, and maximum personal ownership quotas. It now bans any new sales to private citizens. Their homicide rate is almost three (3) times higher than the U.S. 9

    Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. 10 In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000). 11

    Fact: One study of Canadian firearm law and homicide rates spanning 34 years “failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates” for three major gun control bills. 12

    Fact: Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries. 13

    Fact: The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian Prairie Provinces than in the northern US states across the border. 14

    Fact: Strict controls over existing arms failed in Finland. Despite needs-based licensing, storage laws and transportation restrictions, 15 Finland experienced a multiple killing school shooting in 2007. 16
    Myth: Britain has strict gun control and thus a low crime rate


    (see notes about the odd nature of British crime statistics)

    Fact: The United Kingdom has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States, even when British citizens could legally buy machine guns (Briton’s modern era of gun control did not ramp up until the 1960s). The difference is cultural, not legal.
    Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.

    Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17

    Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18

    Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.” 19

    Fact: U.K. street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes were up 14%. 20

    Fact: In 1919, before it had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% – practically unchanged. 21

    Fact: “… [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.” 22

    Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there. 23 To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism. 24

    Fact: An ongoing parliamentary inquiry in Britain into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of 25 possesses or has access to a firearm.
    25

    Selected Gun Facts Reading

    The Non-Brady Scorecard: A monograph concerning gun control l…
    $0.99
    (12)

    Targeting Guns (Social Institutions and Social Change Series)
    $48.95
    (14)

    More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, Thir…
    $41.85
    (403)

    Shooting the Bull
    $9.95
    (49)
    Ads by Amazon
    Offense category Increase from pre-ban
    Armed Robbery 170.1%
    Kidnapping/abduction 144.0%
    Assault 130.9%
    Attempted murder 117.6%
    Sexual assault 112.6%
    Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries. 26

    Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 British offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40%. 27 It is interesting to note:
    • Of the 20 areas with the lowest number of legal firearms, 10 had an above average level of “gun crime.”
    • Of the 20 areas with the highest levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average.

    Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership. 28

    Fact: Over the last century, the British crime rate was largely unchanged. In the late nineteenth century, the per capita homicide rate in Britain was between 1.0 and 1.5 per 100,000. 29 In the late twentieth century, after a near ban on gun ownership, the homicide rate is around 1.4. 30 This implies that the homicide rate did not vary with either the level of gun control or gun availability.

    Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control and a rising homicide rate of 1.4 per 100,000. Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm ownership rate on the planet (all males age 20 to 42 are required to keep rifles or pistols at home) and has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. To date, there has never been a schoolyard massacre in Switzerland. 31

    Fact: “… the scale of gun crime in the capital [London] has forced senior officers to set up a specialist unit to deal with … shootings.”
    32
    Myth: Gun control in Australia is curbing crime


    Fact: Homicides were falling before the Australian firearm ban. In the seven years before and after the Australian ban, the rate of decline was identical (down to four decimal places). Homicides dropped steeply starting in 2003, but all of this decline was associated with non-firearm and non-knife murders (fewer beatings, poisonings, drownings, etc.). 33

    Fact: Crime has been rising since enacting a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after the ban, government statistics showed a dramatic increase in criminal activity. 34 In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20%. 35

    From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
    • Firearm-related murders were up 19%
    • Armed robberies were up 69%
    • Home invasions were up 21%

    The sad part is that in the 15 years before the national gun confiscation:
    • Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
    • Firearm-related deaths fell 50%

    Fact: Gun crimes have been rising throughout Australia since guns were banned. In Sydney alone, robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more than in the previous year. 36

    Fact: A ten-year Australian study has concluded that firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates. 37 A separate report also concluded that Australia’s 1996 gun control laws “found [no] evidence for an impact of the laws on the pre-existing decline in firearm homicides” 38 and yet another report from Australia for a similar time period indicates the same lack of decline in firearm homicides. 39
    Fact: Despite having much stricter gun control than New Zealand (including a near ban on handguns) firearm homicides in both countries track one another over 25 years, indicating that gun control is not a control variable. 40
    Myth: The Australian Gun Buyback Reduced Mass Homicides
    Mass Homicides in Australia
    Before/After 1990s Gun Control Initiative
    Incidents Deaths
    22-years Total Average Total Average
    Before 0.13 0.08 0.13 0.08
    After 0.09 0.10 0.09 0.10
    Per 1,000 Population
    Fact: The number of mass homicides and the number of people killed in mass homicides in Australia has gone up since the gun control initiatives of the mid 1990s.
    Myth: Japan has strict gun control and a less violent society


    Fact: In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. 41 This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese.
    Myth: Gun bans elsewhere work


    Fact: Though illegal, side-street gun makers thrive in the Philippines, primarily hand crafting exact replicas of submachine guns, which are often the simplest type of gun to manufacture. Estimates are that almost half of all guns in the Philippines are illegal. 42

    Fact: Chinese police destroyed 113 illegal gun factories and shops in a three-month crackdown in 2006. Police seized 2,445 tons of explosives, 4.81 million detonators and 117,000 guns. 43
    Myth: The United States has the highest violence rate because of lax gun control


    Fact: The top 100 countries for homicide do not include the U.S. 44 The top ten countries all have near or total firearm bans.
    Myth: The U.S. has the highest rate of firearm deaths among 25 high-income countries


    Fact: 60% of American “gun deaths” are suicides 45 and the U.S. has a suicide rate 11% higher 46 than international averages. This accounts for most of the difference.

    Fact: The U.S. has a violent crime rate lower than 12 of 17 industrialized countries 47 due in large part to the 2.5 million annual defense gun uses. 48
    Myth: The United States is the source of 90% of drug syndicate guns in Mexico


    Fact: This is an often-misquoted data point from the BATFE, who said 90% of the firearms that have been interdicted in transport to Mexico or recovered in Mexico came from the United States. Thus, the 90% number includes only the firearms American and Mexican police stop in transport. 49

    Fact: The original 90% number was derived from the number of firearms successfully traced, not the total number of firearms criminally used. For 2007-2008, Mexican officials recovered approximately 29,000 firearms from crime scenes and asked for BATFE traces of 11,000. Of those, the BATFE could trace roughly 6,000 of which 5,114 were confirmed to have come from the United States. Thus, 83% of the crime guns recovered in Mexico have not been or cannot be traced to America and the real number is most likely 17%. 50

    Fact: Mexican drug syndicates can buy guns anywhere. For the relatively under-powered civilian rifles coming from the United States, drug runners would pay between 300% and 400% above the market price. Thus, they can and are buying guns around the world. 51

    Fact: Mexican drug cartels – with $40 billion in annual revenues – have military armament that includes hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions, antitank rockets and assault rifles smuggled in from Central American countries. 52 These are infantry weapons bought from around the world and not civilian rifles from the United States.
    Myth: Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States


    Fact: The Mexican attorney general’s office reports seizing a total of 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008, or about 14,500 weapons a year. And that is all types of weapons, regardless of country of origin. 53 Had they actually seized approximately 2,000 weapons per day, the total number of seized guns would be closer to 1,460,000.
    Myth: Thousands of guns go into Mexico from the U.S. every day


    Fact: In Senate Committee testimony, the BAFTE said the number was likely at worst to be in the “hundreds”. 54 As evidenced above, for 2007 and 2008, the average for all firearms seizures was closer to 40 per day (29,000 guns/730 days), and only a fraction of these came from the USA by any means.
    Guns in Other Countries

    Myth: Countries with strict gun control have less crime


    Fact: In America, we can demonstrate that private ownership of guns reduces crime, but from country to country there is no correlation between gun availability and the violent crime rate. Consider this:
    Crime Rate
    High Low
    Gun Availability High United States Switzerland
    Low Mexico Japan
    Or, to use detailed data, we can contrast the per capita homicide rate with the per capita gun ownership rate between different industrialized countries (see graph below). Contrasting the data shows zero correlation between the availability of guns and the overall homicide rate.

    Fact: Countries with the strictest gun-control laws also tended to have the highest homicide rates. 1

    Fact: According to the U.N., as of 2005, Scotland was the most violent country in the developed world, with people three times more likely to be assaulted than in America. Violent crime there has doubled over the last 20 years. 3% of Scots had been victims of assault compared with 1.2% in America. 2

    Fact: “… the major surveys completed in the past 20 years or more provides no evidence of any relationship between the total number of legally held firearms in society and the rate of armed crime. Nor is there a relationship between the severity of controls imposed in various countries or the mass of bureaucracy involved with many control systems with the apparent ease of access to firearms by criminals and terrorists.” 3

    Fact: Even if we examine just firearm ownership and firearm homicide by country, we see no correlation between the two. 4

    Fact: Switzerland has relatively lenient gun control for Europe 5, and has the third-lowest homicide rate of the top nine major European countries, and the same per capita rate as England and Wales, where restrictions are much tighter. 6

    Fact: Indeed, the Swiss basically have a military rifle in nearly every closest. “Everybody who has served in the army is allowed to keep their personal weapon, even after the end of their military service.” 7

    Fact: “We don’t have as many guns [in Brazil] as the United States, but we use them more.” 8 Brazil has mandatory licensing, registration, and maximum personal ownership quotas. It now bans any new sales to private citizens. Their homicide rate is almost three (3) times higher than the U.S. 9

    Fact: In Canada around 1920, before there was any form of gun control, their homicide rate was 7% of the U.S rate. By 1986, and after significant gun control legislation, Canada’s homicide rate was 35% of the U.S. rate – a significant increase. 10 In 2003, Canada had a violent crime rate more than double that of the U.S. (963 vs. 475 per 100,000). 11

    Fact: One study of Canadian firearm law and homicide rates spanning 34 years “failed to demonstrate a beneficial association between legislation and firearm homicide rates” for three major gun control bills. 12

    Fact: Many of the countries with the strictest gun control have the highest rates of violent crime. Australia and England, which have virtually banned gun ownership, have the highest rates of robbery, sexual assault, and assault with force of the top 17 industrialized countries. 13

    Fact: The crime rate is 66% higher in four Canadian Prairie Provinces than in the northern US states across the border. 14

    Fact: Strict controls over existing arms failed in Finland. Despite needs-based licensing, storage laws and transportation restrictions, 15 Finland experienced a multiple killing school shooting in 2007. 16
    Myth: Britain has strict gun control and thus a low crime rate


    (see notes about the odd nature of British crime statistics)

    Fact: The United Kingdom has always had a lower homicide rate than the United States, even when British citizens could legally buy machine guns (Briton’s modern era of gun control did not ramp up until the 1960s). The difference is cultural, not legal.
    Fact: Since gun banning has escalated in the UK, the rate of crime – especially violent crime – has risen.

    Fact: Ironically, firearm use in crimes in the UK has doubled in the decade since handguns were banned. 17

    Fact: Britain has the highest rate of violent crime in Europe, more so than the United States or even South Africa. They also have the second highest overall crime rate in the European Union. In 2008, Britain had a violent crime rate nearly five times higher than the United States (2034 vs. 446 per 100,000 population). 18

    Fact: 67% of British residents surveyed believed that “As a result of gun and knife crime [rising], the area I live in is not as safe as it was five years ago.” 19

    Fact: U.K. street robberies soared 28% in 2001. Violent crime was up 11%, murders up 4%, and rapes were up 14%. 20

    Fact: In 1919, before it had any gun control, the U.K. had a homicide rate that was 8% of the U.S. rate. By 1986, and after enacting significant gun control, the rate was 9% – practically unchanged. 21

    Fact: “… [There is] nothing in the statistics for England and Wales to suggest that either the stricter controls on handguns prior to 1997 or the ban imposed since have controlled access to such firearms by criminals.” 22

    Fact: Comparing crime rates between America and Britain is fundamentally flawed. In America, a gun crime is recorded as a gun crime. In Britain, a crime is only recorded when there is a final disposition (a conviction). All unsolved gun crimes in Britain are not reported as gun crimes, grossly undercounting the amount of gun crime there. 23 To make matters worse, British law enforcement has been exposed for falsifying criminal reports to create falsely lower crime figures, in part to preserve tourism. 24

    Fact: An ongoing parliamentary inquiry in Britain into the growing number of black market weapons has concluded that there are more than three million illegally held firearms in circulation – double the number believed to have been held 10 years ago – and that criminals are more willing than ever to use them. One in three criminals under the age of 25 possesses or has access to a firearm. 25

    Selected Gun Facts Reading

    The Non-Brady Scorecard: A monograph concerning gun control l…
    $0.99
    (12)

    Targeting Guns (Social Institutions and Social Change Series)
    $48.95
    (14)

    More Guns, Less Crime: Understanding Crime and Gun Control Laws, Thir…
    $41.85
    (403)

    Shooting the Bull
    $9.95
    (49)
    Ads by Amazon
    Offense category Increase from pre-ban
    Armed Robbery 170.1%
    Kidnapping/abduction 144.0%
    Assault 130.9%
    Attempted murder 117.6%
    Sexual assault 112.6%
    Fact: Handgun homicides in England and Wales reached an all-time high in 2000, years after a virtual ban on private handgun ownership. More than 3,000 crimes involving handguns were recorded in 1999-2000, including 42 homicides, 310 cases of attempted murder, 2,561 robberies and 204 burglaries. 26

    Fact: Handguns were used in 3,685 British offenses in 2000 compared with 2,648 in 1997, an increase of 40%. 27 It is interesting to note:
    • Of the 20 areas with the lowest number of legal firearms, 10 had an above average level of “gun crime.”
    • Of the 20 areas with the highest levels of legal guns, only 2 had armed crime levels above the average.

    Fact: Between 1997 and 1999, there were 429 murders in London, the highest two-year figure for more than 10 years – nearly two-thirds of those involved firearms – in a country that has virtually banned private firearm ownership. 28

    Fact: Over the last century, the British crime rate was largely unchanged. In the late nineteenth century, the per capita homicide rate in Britain was between 1.0 and 1.5 per 100,000. 29 In the late twentieth century, after a near ban on gun ownership, the homicide rate is around 1.4. 30 This implies that the homicide rate did not vary with either the level of gun control or gun availability.

    Fact: The U.K. has strict gun control and a rising homicide rate of 1.4 per 100,000. Switzerland has the highest per capita firearm ownership rate on the planet (all males age 20 to 42 are required to keep rifles or pistols at home) and has a homicide rate of 1.2 per 100,000. To date, there has never been a schoolyard massacre in Switzerland. 31

    Fact: “… the scale of gun crime in the capital [London] has forced senior officers to set up a specialist unit to deal with … shootings.” 32
    Myth: Gun control in Australia is curbing crime


    Fact: Homicides were falling before the Australian firearm ban. In the seven years before and after the Australian ban, the rate of decline was identical (down to four decimal places). Homicides dropped steeply starting in 2003, but all of this decline was associated with non-firearm and non-knife murders (fewer beatings, poisonings, drownings, etc.). 33

    Fact: Crime has been rising since enacting a sweeping ban on private gun ownership. In the first two years after the ban, government statistics showed a dramatic increase in criminal activity. 34 In 2001-2002, homicides were up another 20%. 35

    From the inception of firearm confiscation to March 27, 2000, the numbers are:
    • Firearm-related murders were up 19%
    • Armed robberies were up 69%
    • Home invasions were up 21%

    The sad part is that in the 15 years before the national gun confiscation:
    • Firearm-related homicides dropped nearly 66%
    • Firearm-related deaths fell 50%

    Fact: Gun crimes have been rising throughout Australia since guns were banned. In Sydney alone, robbery rates with guns rose 160% in 2001, more than in the previous year. 36

    Fact: A ten-year Australian study has concluded that firearm confiscation had no effect on crime rates. 37 A separate report also concluded that Australia’s 1996 gun control laws “found [no] evidence for an impact of the laws on the pre-existing decline in firearm homicides” 38 and yet another report from Australia for a similar time period indicates the same lack of decline in firearm homicides. 39
    Fact: Despite having much stricter gun control than New Zealand (including a near ban on handguns) firearm homicides in both countries track one another over 25 years, indicating that gun control is not a control variable. 40
    Myth: The Australian Gun Buyback Reduced Mass Homicides
    Mass Homicides in Australia
    Before/After 1990s Gun Control Initiative
    Incidents Deaths
    22-years Total Average Total Average
    Before 0.13 0.08 0.13 0.08
    After 0.09 0.10 0.09 0.10
    Per 1,000 Population
    Fact: The number of mass homicides and the number of people killed in mass homicides in Australia has gone up since the gun control initiatives of the mid 1990s.
    Myth: Japan has strict gun control and a less violent society


    Fact: In Japan, the total murder rate is almost 1 per 100,000. In the U.S., there are about 3.2 murders per 100,000 people each year by weapons other than firearms. 41 This means that even if firearms in the U.S. could be eliminated, the U.S. would still have three times the murder rate of the Japanese.
    Myth: Gun bans elsewhere work


    Fact: Though illegal, side-street gun makers thrive in the Philippines, primarily hand crafting exact replicas of submachine guns, which are often the simplest type of gun to manufacture. Estimates are that almost half of all guns in the Philippines are illegal. 42

    Fact: Chinese police destroyed 113 illegal gun factories and shops in a three-month crackdown in 2006. Police seized 2,445 tons of explosives, 4.81 million detonators and 117,000 guns. 43
    Myth: The United States has the highest violence rate because of lax gun control


    Fact: The top 100 countries for homicide do not include the U.S. 44 The top ten countries all have near or total firearm bans.
    Myth: The U.S. has the highest rate of firearm deaths among 25 high-income countries


    Fact: 60% of American “gun deaths” are suicides 45 and the U.S. has a suicide rate 11% higher 46 than international averages. This accounts for most of the difference.

    Fact: The U.S. has a violent crime rate lower than 12 of 17 industrialized countries 47 due in large part to the 2.5 million annual defense gun uses. 48
    Myth: The United States is the source of 90% of drug syndicate guns in Mexico


    Fact: This is an often-misquoted data point from the BATFE, who said 90% of the firearms that have been interdicted in transport to Mexico or recovered in Mexico came from the United States. Thus, the 90% number includes only the firearms American and Mexican police stop in transport. 49

    Fact: The original 90% number was derived from the number of firearms successfully traced, not the total number of firearms criminally used. For 2007-2008, Mexican officials recovered approximately 29,000 firearms from crime scenes and asked for BATFE traces of 11,000. Of those, the BATFE could trace roughly 6,000 of which 5,114 were confirmed to have come from the United States. Thus, 83% of the crime guns recovered in Mexico have not been or cannot be traced to America and the real number is most likely 17%. 50

    Fact: Mexican drug syndicates can buy guns anywhere. For the relatively under-powered civilian rifles coming from the United States, drug runners would pay between 300% and 400% above the market price. Thus, they can and are buying guns around the world. 51

    Fact: Mexican drug cartels – with $40 billion in annual revenues – have military armament that includes hand grenades, grenade launchers, armor-piercing munitions, antitank rockets and assault rifles smuggled in from Central American countries. 52 These are infantry weapons bought from around the world and not civilian rifles from the United States.
    Myth: Mexico seizes 2,000 guns a day from the United States


    Fact: The Mexican attorney general’s office reports seizing a total of 29,000 weapons in all of 2007 and 2008, or about 14,500 weapons a year. And that is all types of weapons, regardless of country of origin. 53 Had they actually seized approximately 2,000 weapons per day, the total number of seized guns would be closer to 1,460,000.
    Myth: Thousands of guns go into Mexico from the U.S. every day


    Fact: In Senate Committee testimony, the BAFTE said the number was likely at worst to be in the “hundreds”. 54 As evidenced above, for 2007 and 2008, the average for all firearms seizures was closer to 40 per day (29,000 guns/730 days), and only a fraction of these came from the USA by any means.
    Last edited by MAL; 11-20-2020, 07:58 PM.

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  • ChiefIllini1
    replied
    .

    And Ghost Preacher has a gun. Why? He's a complicated guy.

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  • MAL
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefIllini1 View Post
    .
    Some of you new to the discussion might be wondering what the hell is a "Ghost Preacher." Well, he made his first appearance many pages ago in this thread. I thought I'd fill you in on it. In my mind, Ghost Preacher walks the Earth confiscating guns like Elmer Gantry walked down a tent revival aisle confiscating dollars. Here is his origin story:



    By the way, I've decided that if I can get a good draughtsman or draughtswoman to partner up, fifty-fifty, I'd try and pitch Ghost Preacher as a new, hip, woke Comic Book or anime series. Anybody with the talent and the interest may apply. By the way, Ghost Preacher should look like a dead Burt Lancaster. If you can't draw dead Burt Lancaster, you need not apply. Cheers!
    I see dead people...and read what they write.

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefIllini1
    replied
    .
    Some of you new to the discussion might be wondering what the hell is a "Ghost Preacher." Well, he made his first appearance many pages ago in this thread. I thought I'd fill you in on it. In my mind, Ghost Preacher walks the Earth confiscating guns like Elmer Gantry walked down a tent revival aisle confiscating dollars. Here is his origin story:

    “I see that the congregation is restless. It's a hot afternoon, our church is a little stuffy, and your starched white shirts and calico dresses have become damp with sweat. Stay with me, Brethren, and you shall see the light.

    BROTHERS AND SISTERS, let me tell you a story about the gun that killed me.

    This was back in two thousand ought nine. I was working as a Texas Ranger on a case in Beaumont. The fella that killed me was on parole, never shoulda had a gun. But there ain't no background checks at gun shows in Texas. There ain't no need for an IDee card even, only cash.

    On the barrelhead.

    Well, I was tracking this man down. Hunting him like a wild pig. He had violated parole a thousand different ways. He even stole candy from a baby.

    A white baby.

    I found him holed up at the Longhorn Steakhouse in Beaumont, eating dinner. This is the Longhorn Steakhouse:



    ‘Johnson,’ I says to him, ‘Come quietly, and I'll see that your last meal is a decent steak.’

    He says, ‘I know you been hot on my tail, Walker, but damned if I'm going back to the joint now, after this piece of **** shoe-leather.’



    He had one hand below the table and pulled the trigger. I knew it was coming and matrixed away from it. Unfortunately, everybody in that honkytonk had a gun and they all starts to shootin' at once.

    17,304 people died that day at the Longhorn Steakhouse in Beaumont, Texas. Including me. All because of the god damn NRA, and because you can't get a decent steak in Beaumont, Texas.

    Now, I walk dusty roads in a long black jacket, a Ghost Preacher, speaking on the perfidy of gunmetal.

    So can I get a "No Guns"?

    By the way, I've decided that if I can get a good draughtsman or draughtswoman to partner up, fifty-fifty, I'd try and pitch Ghost Preacher as a new, hip, woke Comic Book or anime series. Anybody with the talent and the interest may apply. By the way, Ghost Preacher should look like a dead Burt Lancaster. If you can't draw dead Burt Lancaster, you need not apply. Cheers!

    Leave a comment:


  • ChiefIllini1
    replied
    .
    I don't know why you think the police would still have guns. They'll figure out how to do their jobs like law enforcement in the UK.

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  • MAL
    replied
    Originally posted by oldpioneer View Post
    All that talk about seatbelts and stuff I’m with me. I wear a mask to protect others around me and grocery stores. We are very very different. You don’t use a mask when using oil based products? You don’t use glasses when running a shaper or a router? I mean if you want to sauté your liver With nasty chemical fumes I guess that is your personal freedom. The main reason I wear eye protection when using a shaper and router is for safety of my hands! I need to be relaxed and focused on the product and the blade because if something **** set your eyes and you blink bye bye Fingers! What about your protection? You run a shaper for six hours straight without them?

    People could buy back guns all day, a person has to agree to sell them.
    I have been working with power tools on a daily basis for 35+ years...I just counted my fingers and toes...if my math is correct they're all still there. I probably have a pair of safety glasses somewhere, but I wouldn't know where to find them. I just use the "don't lead with your head" approach. if you are not wearing safety glasses you pay attention to which way the sparks are flying. If you have had already COVID then it is very unlikely that you could pass it on to someone else.

    If you want a buy back program why don't you just have one of your billionaire friends fund it. Soros has enough cash to pull it off...he could offer $10,000 per gun. We could sell one gun and buy 10 more. Don't use my tax dollars to render the American people defenseless. It's your party that is at odds with the cops. The cops would be the only ones with guns theoretically...imagine what the social dynamic would be like when we had interactions with the police. They would be operating with an air of superiority because the threat to them has been removed. I am not indicting the police or the general public. I am talking about a simple power dynamic. If my adversary is twice my size, I loose before it even gets started. If we both have the right to carry, rational people will just walk away, even if neither one of us are carrying...the right to carry makes both of us think twice.

    I think the left is more threaten by the right owning guns than they are about gangs owning guns. I think this entire argument is about the power dynamic.
    Last edited by MAL; 11-16-2020, 10:03 PM.

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  • dadudaman4
    replied
    Originally posted by ChiefIllini1 View Post
    .

    It is being reported by a number of media sources that the first official act of the President Biden administration will be to implement a Constitutional Gun Buy-Back Program via Executive Order. Most of the details are still to be worked out, but it has been given an official name, Executive Order 2021-1, and there are maps and websites available with some of the details about the procedures and drop-off locations for people to get familiar with the new plan.

    Apparently, the buy-backs will begin on Thursday, January 21, 2021 with a final drop-dead date of April 1, 2021. By that time, all of the guns should be, at least theoretically, in the hands of the federal government. This is one of the graphic images you can find on the government website:
    .


    The website notes, among other things, that:



    This is a great day, my friends! As my friend Ghost Preacher says,
    .
    Your post is misleading. Per Wikipedia: "In 2017, the most recent year for which data are available as of 2020, the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention's (CDC's) National Center for Health Statistics reports that gun deaths reached their highest level since 1968, with 39,773 deaths by firearm, of which 23,854 were by suicide and 14,542 were homicides.... Gun violence against other persons is most common in poor urban areas and is frequently associated with gang violence, often involving male juveniles or young adult males." I don't consider suicide to be "gun violence". Also, the phrase "poor urban areas" is significant as it means large cities, almost universally governed by Democrats. Good luck trying to take their guns away.

    Leave a comment:


  • oldpioneer
    replied
    All that talk about seatbelts and stuff I’m with me. I wear a mask to protect others around me and grocery stores. We are very very different. You don’t use a mask when using oil based products? You don’t use glasses when running a shaper or a router? I mean if you want to sauté your liver With nasty chemical fumes I guess that is your personal freedom. The main reason I wear eye protection when using a shaper and router is for safety of my hands! I need to be relaxed and focused on the product and the blade because if something **** set your eyes and you blink bye bye Fingers! What about your protection? You run a shaper for six hours straight without them?

    People could buy back guns all day, a person has to agree to sell them.

    Leave a comment:

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