An Open Call to the IHSA

[Warrior70]

An Open Call to the IHSA

This is a two-part proposal concerning the conduct of the State Wrestling series. At the present time, schools send their wrestlers to the Regional Tournament. That tournament is conducted as a normal tourney runs, with points scored for individual matches and placement. The top medalists proceed to the Individual Sectionals, with top medalists form the Individual Sectionals proceeding to the Individual State Tournament. Team champions from the Individual Regionals proceed to the Dual Regionals, and so forth. The difficulty is this: some teams perform well in individual tournaments, while others do better in dual tournaments. Following is my proposal.

There should be qualifying competition at both individual and dual team competition. The dual team champion from the qualifying tournament would proceed through the levels of the competition as already designed.

Since Illinois insists that only the dual team champion be named as The State Champions, then the individual tournament should be unscored. Each team may enter up to 25 wrestlers into the tournament, each at the weight that he or she certifies. This opens the tournament to more of the competitors, and produces greater opportunities for the athletes. There have been many occasions in which two or three wrestlers from the same school were capable of earning medals at the state tournament, but must wrestler at a higher weight, cut excessive weight, or fail to have opportunities to compete. This method of competing would also promote healthy choices in individuals selecting appropriate weight classes for competition. After the preliminary tournament (Regionals), all would proceed as it now exists.

Conducting the State Tournament Series in the proposed manner would add one day (Friday evening) to most Regionals for the individual tournament. Dual team Regionals could be conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings of the same week as the individual Regionals. The positive side of the equation is that more athletes have greater opportunities. In addition, we would have a true state championship team based on the criteria for which the championship is being conducted (Dual Team).

[tossNturn]

An Open Call to the IHSA

This is a two-part proposal concerning the conduct of the State Wrestling series. At the present time, schools send their wrestlers to the Regional Tournament. That tournament is conducted as a normal tourney runs, with points scored for individual matches and placement. The top medalists proceed to the Individual Sectionals, with top medalists form the Individual Sectionals proceeding to the Individual State Tournament. Team champions from the Individual Regionals proceed to the Dual Regionals, and so forth. The difficulty is this: some teams perform well in individual tournaments, while others do better in dual tournaments. Following is my proposal.

There should be qualifying competition at both individual and dual team competition. The dual team champion from the qualifying tournament would proceed through the levels of the competition as already designed.

Since Illinois insists that only the dual team champion be named as The State Champions, then the individual tournament should be unscored. Each team may enter up to 25 wrestlers into the tournament, each at the weight that he or she certifies. This opens the tournament to more of the competitors, and produces greater opportunities for the athletes. There have been many occasions in which two or three wrestlers from the same school were capable of earning medals at the state tournament, but must wrestler at a higher weight, cut excessive weight, or fail to have opportunities to compete. This method of competing would also promote healthy choices in individuals selecting appropriate weight classes for competition. After the preliminary tournament (Regionals), all would proceed as it now exists.

Conducting the State Tournament Series in the proposed manner would add one day (Friday evening) to most Regionals for the individual tournament. Dual team Regionals could be conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings of the same week as the individual Regionals. The positive side of the equation is that more athletes have greater opportunities. In addition, we would have a true state championship team based on the criteria for which the championship is being conducted (Dual Team).

I like the idea of the team aspect. But I don't agree with the individual state idea. 25 guys from a team at each regional?

[Warrior70]

I like the idea of the team aspect. But I don't agree with the individual state idea. 25 guys from a team at each regional?

Someone in one of the previous threads mentioned that Akui (St. Rita) could not break into the starting lineup last year, even though he would have probably earned a medal in the State meet. I remember many times growing up when wrestlers were injured or had other problems and the junior varsity wrestler would step in and would win District (now Regionals) and Sectionals. This would give an opportunity for those wrestlers who otherwise could not compete to have the opportunity to wrestle. I have witnessed athletes who quit the team during their senior or junior year because they could not defeat a younger teammate. This would give them a reason to remain on the team; learning the lessons that we derive from participating in the sport. The key to this is opportunity.

[ctdad]

Did you ever think that maybe one of the lessons that one of the lessons of wrestling is sometimes it's not your turn. One wrestler per school is sufficient.

Timing can be everything, in life as in wrestling. Months ago somebody wrote some kids get 4 years, some get 2, some get only 1.

[Dondo]

Wow...have to give this some thought but like your (out of the box) thinking. Yes, I would bet that Akui would have medaled last year, and I don't like to bet.

[restling]

It would be like track, where more than one person can compete in an event. How would you like to be the second fastest kid in the state, and not be able to run at regionals? I'm sure there are many seniors who don't go out who could benefiet from this. Every team probably has one or two kids that are good enough to move through qualifiying, but can't beat their varsity guy.

[Hanging out in Cali]

Do not re-invent the wheel

An Open Call to the IHSA

This is a two-part proposal concerning the conduct of the State Wrestling series. At the present time, schools send their wrestlers to the Regional Tournament. That tournament is conducted as a normal tourney runs, with points scored for individual matches and placement. The top medalists proceed to the Individual Sectionals, with top medalists form the Individual Sectionals proceeding to the Individual State Tournament. Team champions from the Individual Regionals proceed to the Dual Regionals, and so forth. The difficulty is this: some teams perform well in individual tournaments, while others do better in dual tournaments. Following is my proposal.

There should be qualifying competition at both individual and dual team competition. The dual team champion from the qualifying tournament would proceed through the levels of the competition as already designed.

Since Illinois insists that only the dual team champion be named as The State Champions, then the individual tournament should be unscored. Each team may enter up to 25 wrestlers into the tournament, each at the weight that he or she certifies. This opens the tournament to more of the competitors, and produces greater opportunities for the athletes. There have been many occasions in which two or three wrestlers from the same school were capable of earning medals at the state tournament, but must wrestler at a higher weight, cut excessive weight, or fail to have opportunities to compete. This method of competing would also promote healthy choices in individuals selecting appropriate weight classes for competition. After the preliminary tournament (Regionals), all would proceed as it now exists.

Conducting the State Tournament Series in the proposed manner would add one day (Friday evening) to most Regionals for the individual tournament. Dual team Regionals could be conducted on Tuesday and Wednesday evenings of the same week as the individual Regionals. The positive side of the equation is that more athletes have greater opportunities. In addition, we would have a true state championship team based on the criteria for which the championship is being conducted (Dual Team).

I agree that the strategies employed by the IHSA leave much to be desired. I personally think that they are constantly trying to reinvent the wheel. However, I do not think your strategy is the best course. I think one only has to look to the NCAA's or states like California. They use a weighted system. IHSA does not use the regular season nor conference tournaments. Why not? First, they need to get rid of regionals-half of them are a repeat of conference anyway.

For the individual tournament, conference tournaments qualify you for sectionals and sectionals for state. However, as we all know some conferences are much tougher than others, they should qualify more wrestlers. Based upon previous years results, conferences and their sections would get more wrestlers to qualify. If you want more opportunity for wrestlers to participate, then you let more qualify, you don't make more classes. Some sections may qualify 5 or 6 wrestlers while some may only qualify 2 or 3. Every year, kids do not make it to state who had a very good chance to place. In California, the central section is by far the hardest and they qualify 7 out of sectionals. Every year 5 or 6 in a weight class place at state, many of which never would have made it to state under the IHSA system. If the brackets were bigger and harder with no walkovers, I know I would see it as the big event that it should be.

As for the dual state tournament, I think a similar approach would be best. Use the conference results to decide who goes on to the next level. More successful conferences or a power ranking of conferences could be used to qualify teams for the next level. Some conferences should only have one or 2 teams qualify for the next level where other conferences have 3 or 4 teams who should go on. I think that we do not have to recreate the wheel. We have examples to follow on the next level. In division I, there is no regionals or even sectionals. Everybody knows who the toughest conferences are and they qualify more wrestlers. In the past smaller division champions also automatically qualified for DI. I think the regional and sectional assignments are arbitrary and inherently flawed. I think this approach would be more balanced, creates the most and the best opportunites, and makes the most sense to me.

[hoopdawg]

i like the two wrestlers per weight class per team. our iesa teams have had teamates wrestle each other for a state title more than once, and i've seen other teams do it also, that alone having multiple placers at the same weight. on the high school level, we had a senior quit that allowed his j.v. guy a spot, who went on to place third. the j.v. kid couldn't crack the line-up otherwise. we have also had a returning state champion not be able to crack the line-up his senior season and therefor never competed in the state series his final season. their are a ton of examples of this happening out there all the time.

[shark9191]

Leave the current system alone. If there are two very good wrestlers at the same weight on the same team - one of them has to move up or down. This is how the 14 individuals become a team; they learn to wotk within that envirrnment. As far as sending more individuals from certain conferences, what happens when that conference has a down year. Look at the CCL, they were powerful for years and then average the last few. When do you eliminate those individual spots, the following year - then there's an unfair advantage for the lag year. Leave it alone - lets try this 3 Class system for awhile before we start going California.....

[southwizard]

hmmm...... im sitting here reading this thread and i cant decide where my heart lies in this debate. All i know is i am totally against a three class system and think the individual state tournament should be a single class and then maybe seperate it into 2 or 3 classes for dual team. As for having a weighted conference to decide which sections have x amount of qualifiers, im not sure if i agree with that either because shark is right, but i believe if you did the formula for qualifiers every x amount of years it could work because usually the conferences that were tough five or six years ago go back to being tough in like a cycle. Some teams have streaks where they are tough for one year then go back to the average teams the next year depending on the crop of freshman or seniors they have.

My method of doing it would be as follows. Currently there are 12 sectionals which is 48 regionals in the entire state (A,AA,AAA.) I would simply make the State series four weeks long. Honestly for the IHSA they It wouldnt really hurt them bad as it would just give them an extra weekend to get money. The first week would be regionals. There would be 64 regionals just like there is now except the teams would be more spread out. I ve been trying to work on a sample formula on how to somehow weight teams pertaining to how far the majority of thier wrestlers make it into the state series the previous year but nothing had really caught my eye yet but i am sure as soon as i come up with one i will post it. Anyway, There will be four regionals per sectionals and the top three wrestlers would qualify for sectionals. With this being said there would be twelve wrestlers in the sectional tournament using the standard 12 man bracket that is at sectionals right now. There would be 16 sectionals where the top 4 would qualify for super sectionals. There would be four sectionals per super sectional. this is where it gets tricky. Here there would be sixteen man brackets where there was a basic random schematics of how the wrestlers fit in and this would really be the beginning of the state tournament (kinda like dual team or how they run other sports such as soccer). At super sectionals, the tournament would not wrestle past the quarterfinals. You would wrestle out to the semi final position and This is where the tournament would stop and continue in Assembly hall. The four remaining wrestlers from each sectional that made it to the semi- finals would be the state qualifiers. The remain 16 wrestlers would be seated by the current formula up to 8th. Except the state bracket would actually contain the super sectional in it also so it would actually be a 64 man bracket but only the final 16 would wrestle in the state tournament. If you look at the soccer bracket or dual team bracket it is very similar except a smaller bracket. from the sixteen man bracket you could just wrestle double elimination full wrestle backs and place the top 8. Besides the fact that this would never be implemented in IHSA wrestling due to me being a nobody, i have not found a way to tie in dual team with two or three seperate classes.

another way to do it, would be to just leave it as a three week series, have a 64 man state bracket, but wrestle backs dont kick in until the round of 16. In other words you had to win your first two matches to be able to get a wrestle back.

[Conscience]

First of all, I completely agree with teams sending two or maybe even more to regionals. The IKWF does it why can't the IHSA handle it? Maybe open it up to where it is just 2nd team juniors and seniors that can go to regionals. Frosh-Soph can move forward in the frosh-soph state tourney. Seriously , how many more kids would it add per bracket, maybe 4-5. Most of the regional brackets aren't full anyway.

That is the plan. The first team kid could be any grade but the second team kid must be a jr or sr. Thoughts?

[THE Grill Master]

3 class no class

the 3 class system is a complete joke--------------------