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**barzagar** · 11-11-2011, 02:11 PM

Can someone give me Kalvin Hill's resume outside of winning state last year and beating Dylan Reel? He must have some other accomplishments to be ranked that high.

**PapaBearSLIM** · 11-11-2011, 02:46 PM

Tough crowd

Originally posted by barzagar View Post

Can someone give me Kalvin Hill's resume outside of winning state last year and beating Dylan Reel? He must have some other accomplishments to be ranked that high.

Can you name 1 other kid with an Illinois state title and a recent win over Reel that is not ranked that high?

In your opinion what else does he need to be worthy of that ranking?

**barzagar** · 11-11-2011, 03:10 PM

Originally posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post

Can you name 1 other kid with an Illinois state title and a recent win over Reel that is not ranked that high?

In your opinion what else does he need to be worthy of that ranking?

Some freestyle success and/or national level tournament placings. Just like everyone else on that list that dahdah posted has. I wasn't trying to be negative; I was curious if there was something that he had wrestled in that I had missed. It just seems odd that a 1x placerwinner/champ would be ranked that high when most of the kids on that list have long freestyle resumes.

I do have a kid in mind who has similar credentials and is not ranked that high.

**PapaBearSLIM** · 11-11-2011, 03:18 PM

Originally posted by barzagar View Post

Some freestyle success and/or national level tournament placings. Just like everyone else on that list that dahdah posted has. I wasn't trying to be negative; I was curious if there was something that he had wrestled in that I had missed. It just seems odd that a 1x placerwinner/champ would be ranked that high when most of the kids on that list have long freestyle resumes.

I do have a kid in mind who has similar credentials and is not ranked that high.

I getcha. I guess the man to ask would have to be Mr. Twister.

Originally posted by MR TWISTER View Post

You do realize that I am on Intermat's staff and as a result I have the primary input on where and who is ranked from Illinois. Not the final but definetely have signifigant input on where our guys are ranked throughout the year. Because something is dated does not mean it is "always" updated. Because a particular writer signs their name to rankings does not mean they are the only ones that do (or add input) those rankings.

Carbondale, as the father of a wrestler that was nationally ranked every year of his high school career and an All American his last two, I am very much aware of what is required to wrestle the best in the country and to be nationally ranked.

Also in the very beginning I stated that FOLKSTYLE results played a higher importance than freestyle and Greco results for the purposes of this Top Ten ranking. I thought I made that real clear. So what a wrestler did 40 freestyle match after the last folkstyle match of last season. That would not be a tie breaker as much as the results of national and state folkstyle matches. While International accomplishments are mention in each wrestlers bio, a wrestler that does not freestyle like John Starzyk would not be eliminated from consideration for being a Top Ten wrestler in Illinois. That is the criteria every year for the list.

Rankings are not the bible. They are either an individual or a collaborative groups opinions. In all cases head to head plays a significant. While I won't debate or justify on this forum who is ranked or where just realize that if 100 people were asked to rank 10 wrestlers there would in most cases be from 85-100 different ranking opinions. None would be perfect nor would the be wrong. In other words.....Rankings are opinion based. Matches are factual based. Pick your poison as to which to put your faith in.

**james buss sr.** · 11-11-2011, 03:43 PM

from what i seen last year i dont think brazil would be in the top 3 or 4 in 3A.

**PapaBearSLIM** · 11-11-2011, 04:27 PM

Originally posted by james buss sr. View Post

from what i seen last year i dont think brazil would be in the top 3 or 4 in 3A.

I'll refer you to post #5 above.

**ddcoach** · 11-11-2011, 04:47 PM

When did Brad Johnson transfer to Minooka? I thought he was at Lockport.

**barzagar** · 11-11-2011, 04:50 PM

Originally posted by ddcoach View Post

When did Brad Johnson transfer to Minooka? I thought he was at Lockport.

He didn't. It's a typo.

**Bucksman** · 11-11-2011, 08:10 PM

The information I was given has Pique projected at 120. If he drops, that will be captured when it happens.

Kalvin Hill has an Illinois 3A state title in a middle-weight, which is very meaningful. So is a win over Dylan Reel. Due to not really being a FS guy, his national record is not robust. He did finish 4th at the FloNationals this past year - for purposes of reference, the losses were to Speiller and Morelli.

The team ranking looks at things from multiple prongs, not just dual meet. The bigger emphasis to me is on CORE STRENGTH (namely an ability to succeed across platforms - dual meet, normal tournament, big tournament, state tournament). Beyond Hill, Minooka is lacking in big names that can compete well in a big tournament or state tournament platform. If the Illinois Class 3A state tournament was "scored", there is no way Minooka would contend to win. The four teams selected reflect this emphasis.

**Champaign Supernova** · 11-11-2011, 08:24 PM

Surprised to see Marchok at #1. He straight up lost to McMurtry in the semis last year. Wouldn't have been surprised if that ref jumped on McMurtrys back before the match ended.

**mustang12** · 11-11-2011, 08:41 PM

Originally posted by Champaign Supernova View Post

Surprised to see Marchok at #1. He straight up lost to McMurtry in the semis last year. Wouldn't have been surprised if that ref jumped on McMurtrys back before the match ended.

McMurty wreslted 5:59 and used the other second to celebrate and give his Aaron Rogers championship belt salute to the crowd instead of not letting Marchok escape. Then he quit in overtime. Match is 6 minutes long and if its tied at the end you have to keep wrestling into overtime.

**Champaign Supernova** · 11-11-2011, 09:02 PM

What match were you watching? There was no escape. 12 seconds left on the clock, Marchok stands up off the whistle. McMurtry then called for stalling with :7 on the clock, then again with :4 on the clock giving Marchok a point.

**newtwowrestling** · 11-11-2011, 09:25 PM

the great mcmurtry vs. marchok debate, revisited

Originally posted by Champaign Supernova View Post

Surprised to see Marchok at #1. He straight up lost to McMurtry in the semis last year. Wouldn't have been surprised if that ref jumped on McMurtrys back before the match ended.

mcmurtry did lose, but, i agree, i thought mcmurtry got robbed a little bit.

it was a tremendous effort by mcmurtry, did the refs have it in their heads marchok was #1 ???

put another way, if the EXACT situation was reversed, would mcmurtry get the same calls AGAINST marchok at the end ?????

all that being said, marchok is a clear #1, and i predict an undefeated, back-to-back state champ. he's legit, no question about it.

(p.s., i was front row, another example of the building starting to clear out BEFORE a stellar upper weight match)

**CONDOR** · 11-11-2011, 09:39 PM

Hill also went undefeated at the NWCA DUALS. He had 1 loss at the Disney Duals to last years 171 lb. PA state champ and 1 of his wins was over Elliott Riddick who I believe just finished 2nd at the Super 32. Just because they arent wrestling freestyle doesnt mean they arent wrestling national comp in the offseason. This is the same scenario I brought up when it was being discussed if Buss was rankable. He went undefeated at both of those tournys including a win over TJJ who I believe just placed at the Super 32.

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