What If...

[barzagar]

Alright before I ask this question, I want all of the trolls to stay out of this thread. You know who you are.

What would Marmion's lineup have looked like had the exodus never happened? Where would you rank that team among Illinois's finest this season? Are they better than Montini, OPRF, Marist, or Sandburg? Why? Where would you rank them nationally?

I think what I want to know is if this team could have taken on St. Eds, Apple Valley, Blair etc. and come away with a victory. Everyone always says that we have no team that can stack up with those teams; well if they stuck around, could it have happened?

[mckbln]

Alright before I ask this question, I want all of the trolls to stay out of this thread. You know who you are.

What would Marmion's lineup have looked like had the exodus never happened? Where would you rank that team among Illinois's finest this season? Are they better than Montini, OPRF, Marist, or Sandburg? Why?

Had Marmion not had the break-up, they would have been #1 last year and reloaded this year, given all the incoming talent they got. Last year's Marmion team could have had Bosco, Jimminez, Field, Fisher, Whitford, Brill, Silvestro, Gonzalez, Rowland, and Fritz. Problem would still be their upper weights from 170-285, despite Fritz at 220. This year's team will have a LOT of young talent; add in the other kids that left, very tough.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Alright before I ask this question, I want all of the trolls to stay out of this thread. You know who you are.

What would Marmion's lineup have looked like had the exodus never happened? Where would you rank that team among Illinois's finest this season? Are they better than Montini, OPRF, Marist, or Sandburg? Why? Where would you rank them nationally?

This is a no brainer. They would undoubtedly be the best in the state and would be right there with Blair as the top team in the country.

Just look at their current proposed line up and think about the softest parts in it. Now look how nicely Cortez at 126, Whitford at 145, Brill at 152, Gonzalez at 160 and Rowland at 170 would fit. Add in the 2 stud freshman they have in the middle (Carello/Demoss) and they could do a lot with that lineup.

Lineup was even nastier last year if they were still together.... or maybe not with no Warren and Snodgrass in the uppers.

[WrestlingFan93]

That wouldve been one SICK team. They wouldve without a doubt be the top team in IL with Montini being IMO the closest team that would be able to hang with them. On a national level they would be top 3

[mckbln]

I think what I want to know is if this team could have taken on St. Eds, Apple Valley, Blair etc. and come away with a victory. Everyone always says that we have no team that can stack up with those teams; well if they stuck around, could it have happened?

In a word, no. You could load Marmion up with all those studs last year and they still get hammered by St Eds or Blair. Apple Valley might be a competative dual.


Give Marmion Academy Whitford, Brill, Gonzalez, and Rowland vs last year's St Edward's line-up:

106: Bosco (MA) dec Bentley
113: Jimminez (MA) maj dec Corrao
120: Cortez (MA) dec Moore
126: Heil (SE) maj dec Fischer/Field
132: Bright (SE) WBF Fisher/Field
138: Whitford (MA) maj dec Barber
145: Brill (MA) dec Scheidel
152: Van Curren (SE) maj dec Kellet
160: Davis vs Rowland - flip a coin
170: Martin (SE) WBF
182: Abounader (SE) WBF
195: Suvak (SE) WBF
220: Walz (SE) WBF
285: Kuhar (SE) WBF Fritz

If you think I am joking about the weights from 170-285...I am not; I saw these guys wrestle and all of them were nationally ranked AND the reason St Edward beat Clovis, Brandon, and Apple Valley at The Clash. If Marmion Academy juggled their line-up to fit Gonzalez and Silvestro in, it wouldn't matter.

[Celticwrestling]

Moore was at 113lbs for St. Edward last year and he would of beaten Jimenez. St. Edward, Apple Valley and Blair were all at a different level last year. Marmion dualed St. Edward two years ago and lost by over 20pts, with all the guys you have listed.

[mckbln]

Moore was at 113lbs for St. Edward last year and he would of beaten Jimenez. St. Edward, Apple Valley and Blair were all at a different level last year. Marmion dualed St. Edward two years ago and lost by over 20pts, with all the guys you have listed.

Moore was injured a LOT last season, and wrestled at 120 at The Clash, but I agree he probably beats Jimminez, but then whoever St Eds puts vs Cortez gets pinned. BTW...I was at that quad that Marmion Academy hosted with St Eds, IWC and Montini, doing the webcast for ILMatmen with Twist. You couldn't help but be impressed by that St Edward line-up.
As far as Apple Valley is concerned, OPRF handled them in the upper weights and the dual was tied or we had a slight lead after Rundell pinned Woiwor at 106...but we FF at 113, Early loses a close one to Gross ai 120, and then we got clobbered by Trom, Ryder, Hall, Manville, and Kingsley.

[PapaBearSLIM]

I think what I want to know is if this team could have taken on St. Eds, Apple Valley, Blair etc. and come away with a victory. Everyone always says that we have no team that can stack up with those teams; well if they stuck around, could it have happened?

In a word, no. You could load Marmion up with all those studs last year and they still get hammered by St Eds or Blair. Apple Valley might be a competative dual.


Give Marmion Academy Whitford, Brill, Gonzalez, and Rowland vs last year's St Edward's line-up:

106: Bosco (MA) dec Bentley
113: Jimminez (MA) maj dec Corrao
120: Cortez (MA) dec Moore
126: Heil (SE) maj dec Fischer/Field
132: Bright (SE) WBF Fisher/Field
138: Whitford (MA) maj dec Barber
145: Brill (MA) dec Scheidel
152: Van Curren (SE) maj dec Kellet
160: Davis vs Rowland - flip a coin
170: Martin (SE) WBF
182: Abounader (SE) WBF
195: Suvak (SE) WBF
220: Walz (SE) WBF
285: Kuhar (SE) WBF Fritz

If you think I am joking about the weights from 170-285...I am not; I saw these guys wrestle and all of them were nationally ranked AND the reason St Edward beat Clovis, Brandon, and Apple Valley at The Clash. If Marmion Academy juggled their line-up to fit Gonzalez and Silvestro in, it wouldn't matter.

3 things:

1) I have a hard time believing that a matchup between 2 teams of that caliber would have two-thirds of the matches end in bonus points.

2) I know you have a crush on St. Eds (especially their bigs last year... namely Kuhar) surpassed only by your love for OPRF. But at least give Marmion a fighting chance by using their best lineup. I suspect that Gonzalez and state champ Silvestro find their way on the mat in that dual.

3) I agree with you that Marmion would have likely lost that dual.

[mckbln]

3 things:

1) I have a hard time believing that a matchup between 2 teams of that caliber would have two-thirds of the matches end in bonus points.

2) I know you have a crush on St. Eds (especially their bigs last year... namely Kuhar) surpassed only by your love for OPRF. But at least give Marmion a fighting chance by using their best lineup. I suspect that Gonzalez and state champ Silvestro find their way on the mat in that dual.

3) I agree with you that Marmion would have likely lost that dual.

Larry....last year Marmoin was WEAK in those upper weights, and I kid you not...those would all be pins. If you don't believe me, go back and watch the tape of Marmion vs St Edwards from the 2010-11 season quad or St Edward's Clash championship bracket matches from last year. I had this argument with a Marist fan that tried to tell me that Marist could come within 10 points of or possibly beat St Eds last year. After The Clash I think he changed his opinion. I kid you not...it would have taken an AA/AAA all-star team from IL to beat them.

[PapaBearSLIM]

Larry....last year Marmoin was WEAK in those upper weights, and I kid you not...those would all be pins. If you don't believe me, go back and watch the tape of Marmion vs St Edwards from the 2010-11 season quad or St Edward's Clash championship bracket matches from last year. I had this argument with a Marist fan that tried to tell me that Marist could come within 10 points of or possibly beat St Eds last year. After The Clash I think he changed his opinion. I kid you not...it would have taken an AA/AAA all-star team from IL to beat them.

I know how tough St. Eds was last year, especially up top. But in a dual situation against Marmion's best line up, I don't think they pin out the last 5 weights and I certainly don't think it's likely that 9 matches in that dual end with bonus points.

[Dolby]

As much as I like to disagree with Mc this time I can't. At the end of the year Moore was at 113 and Colin Heffernan was at 120. For most of the year Hef was the victim of the lost middle weight with the weight changes. Those changes helped no team in the country more than St. Eds. I was going to say if you can use Kuhar who got hurt then Marmion gets Greco, but that would not help except to maybe save some bonus points as he and Fisher would be matche up vs. Heil & Bright either way. So yes Eds would get one more win at 113 but I think Marmion could get that win back with Silvestro at 138, Brill 145 & I believe Whitford is good enough to win at 152. No sense in getting Gonzalez in the line-up. If you put him at 160 and bump Rowland you go from a toss-up and a LBF to 2 losses. Snodgrass is a big strong kid and could probably keep from getting pinned but he would be the only one in those last 5 weights.