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  • #31
    Originally posted by James_Oliva View Post
    Agreed 1000%

    This thread is stupid. If these coaches haven't done a good job building their program then why are people moving there?
    But are they moving there or renting there. You would think the tax payers would have more of a problem with it then the general public. If its all legal and nothing can be done then wonder why its brought up so much.

    Comment


    • #32
      Originally posted by 2twins View Post
      But are they moving there or renting there. 1) You would think the tax payers would have more of a problem with it then the general public. 2) If its all legal and nothing can be done then wonder why its brought up so much.
      1.) You think landlords don't pay realestate taxes?.....and you don't think that take that into account when calculating what to charge in rent?

      you cant actually think that can you?

      2.) Moving into a school district and then going to that school IS legal. So as to why people bring it up, my guess is that they are; jealous, butt hurt, not the sharpest knives in the drawer, unable to accept losing, or a combination of those.


      in answer to your questions...hope that helps.

      Comment


      • #33
        Originally posted by 2twins View Post
        If its all legal and nothing can be done then wonder why its brought up so much.
        Because conspiracy theorists are a dime a dozen. The only thing that would constitute a violation would if someone affiliated with the school is enticing an athlete to move to the district. If that ever happened, do you know how hard it would be to prove. Conspiracy theorists like to concoct crazy stories based on second, third and fourth hand information that fits their theory (or they just make it up). You see examples all the time where people go to great lengths to be part of something great. You see examples all the time of people going to great lengths to try to build something great. What happens when those 2 things happen simultaneously?

        Comment


        • #34
          Originally posted by 2twins View Post
          But are they moving there or renting there. You would think the tax payers would have more of a problem with it then the general public. If its all legal and nothing can be done then wonder why its brought up so much.
          If you rent, you are also a tax payer. A renter pays their pro rata share of the tax burden for the entire building.

          It is brought up because Oak Park beats the "home grown" whiners by wide margins every year. It is brought up because said whiners want to feel good about themselves when taking the beatings that they take every year. If Oak Park wasn't winning, no one would care. Said whiners have got to find a way to knock these hard working kids down.

          It has to be illegal for largely minority families to make a decision to move to a wonderful community with a great and safe school district with great teachers, parks, facilities, coaches and resources. Those families aren't smart enough to make a decision based on their own interests and desires. Someone must have illegally recruited them.

          Just because you have a bunch of so called "all stars" come together, that does not mean you automatically win. You still have to develop them. Eliminate bad habits. Get them to buy into strength training, conditioning, year round work, no short cuts, team goals above their own personal goals, work with the over zealous parents, and deal with all of the distractions that come along with being a 14-18 year old adolescent that is developing into a man. Lots of coaches can create the atmosphere that would be attractive for families to move from a purely wrestling standpoint. There is more to life than wrestling. The great programs attract people for more than wrestling.

          Comment


          • #35
            Originally posted by Nelson*0.5 View Post
            Because conspiracy theorists are a dime a dozen. The only thing that would constitute a violation would if someone affiliated with the school is enticing an athlete to move to the district. If that ever happened, do you know how hard it would be to prove. Conspiracy theorists like to concoct crazy stories based on second, third and fourth hand information that fits their theory (or they just make it up). You see examples all the time where people go to great lengths to be part of something great. You see examples all the time of people going to great lengths to try to build something great. What happens when those 2 things happen simultaneously?
            There are more violations possible than that.
            1.Kid could claim to be living in the district, but actually isn't.
            2.School allows kids living out of district to go to their school at no additional cost.

            Comment


            • #36
              Originally posted by Gladguy View Post
              If you rent, you are also a tax payer. A renter pays their pro rata share of the tax burden for the entire building.

              It is brought up because Oak Park beats the "home grown" whiners by wide margins every year. It is brought up because said whiners want to feel good about themselves when taking the beatings that they take every year. If Oak Park wasn't winning, no one would care. Said whiners have got to find a way to knock these hard working kids down.

              It has to be illegal for largely minority families to make a decision to move to a wonderful community with a great and safe school district with great teachers, parks, facilities, coaches and resources. Those families aren't smart enough to make a decision based on their own interests and desires. Someone must have illegally recruited them.

              Just because you have a bunch of so called "all stars" come together, that does not mean you automatically win. You still have to develop them. Eliminate bad habits. Get them to buy into strength training, conditioning, year round work, no short cuts, team goals above their own personal goals, work with the over zealous parents, and deal with all of the distractions that come along with being a 14-18 year old adolescent that is developing into a man. Lots of coaches can create the atmosphere that would be attractive for families to move from a purely wrestling standpoint. There is more to life than wrestling. The great programs attract people for more than wrestling.
              It certainly increases the odds. The rest of your paragraph is simply what ALL coaches are supposed to do regardless of the talent level on their team.

              Comment


              • #37
                Originally posted by Nelson*0.5 View Post
                Because conspiracy theorists are a dime a dozen. The only thing that would constitute a violation would if someone affiliated with the school is enticing an athlete to move to the district. If that ever happened, do you know how hard it would be to prove. Conspiracy theorists like to concoct crazy stories based on second, third and fourth hand information that fits their theory (or they just make it up). You see examples all the time where people go to great lengths to be part of something great. You see examples all the time of people going to great lengths to try to build something great. What happens when those 2 things happen simultaneously?
                Well said.

                Comment


                • #38
                  Originally posted by Low dribble View Post
                  There are more violations possible than that.
                  1.Kid could claim to be living in the district, but actually isn't.
                  2.School allows kids living out of district to go to their school at no additional cost.
                  This is what happens for EVERY student that attends OPRF.

                  Q: Why do you conduct residency verification?
                  A: Illinois public schools are mandated by the Illinois School Code to ensure that students attending the school district on a tuition-free basis are residents of the district. While the law does not dictate how a studentís residency within the district should be determined, the mandate to ensure students attending our school are residents is the basis for our residency verification process.

                  Q: I have lived in the district for many years and pay a lot of money in taxes. Why do I have to do this?
                  A: Tenure in the district was not a factor in our determining who was required to participate in our residency verification process. We also made a conscious decision to require this process for all families requesting tuition-free access to our school. We greatly appreciate the ongoing support of our tax-payers in the district. Still, we felt that the inconvenience of residency verification is outweighed by the benefits of ensuring that only families who live in and are residents of the district have access to our schools.

                  Confidentiality and Security
                  Q: Why do you need my confidential information?
                  A: We do not need your confidential personal information (e.g., bank account number, credit card numbers). The residency guidance from the Illinois State Board of Education requires that we offer the choice of many forms of documentation to prove residency. You have two choices if you are concerned about sharing sensitive personal information: 1) You may redact all personal information except for your name and address on any bill you provide us, or 2) you may choose other forms of residency documentation that do not contain sensitive personal information.

                  Q: Who can see my information?
                  A: Once we gather the residency verification information it becomes part of the studentís record. The records and information contained in the studentís school record is protected so that only staff that has a legitimate educational interest may view it. Normally, the only people who need to see the residency verification supporting documents are administrators, individuals with the registrarís office, and residency compliance officers.

                  Q: What security measures do you have in place to ensure the protection of my personal information?
                  A: We have a host of security software products, including a DMZ, firewalls and virus protection to protect the information contained within a studentís record. In addition, the documents and information gathered resides on servers within the premises of the high school and access is only provided to staff that has a legitimate educational interest in viewing such information.

                  Q: How would I know if these security measures failed?
                  The information gathered in support of a student's residency are considered student records pursuant to the Illinois School Student Records Act (ISSRA) and the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). This information cannot be released without the consent of a student's parent/guardian unless the release meets an exception under the law. Therefore, if any of the District's security measures related to maintenance of student records are breached, the District must notify the parents/guardians of such students.

                  Q: Is my information ever sold to a third party?
                  Both ISSRA and FERPA prohibit the District from selling student records information or any personally identifiable information concerning students and/or their parents to any outside party. In addition, Oak Park River Forest High School District Board policy 7:15 explicitly prohibits the marketing or sale of personal information concerning students, including student records information.  

                  Information Requested
                  Q: Why is it important to know where siblings of the student attend?
                  A: Knowing where siblings attend provides us additional information to support a claim of residency in the district. For example, the fact that younger siblings attend either District 90 or 97 schools provides us an indication that the family may be legitimate residents of the district.

                  Q: Why do I have to sign the Affidavit of Residency? Isnít it against the law to ask that parents sign this?
                  A: An affidavit of residency is your statement that the information you are providing as the basis for residency and receiving the tuition-free educational services of our school is true. It is not against the law to ask you to sign such an affidavit.

                  Q: There was a question on the enrollment under the residency section that asked if the child received any social supportóis this just for residency?
                  A: Yes. You would go through a separate process at the time of fee payment to apply for financial assistance.

                  Students with Special Circumstances
                  Q: How does this process affect homeless students?
                  A: Homeless students do not have to go through the residency verification process.

                  Q: How does this process affect undocumented students?
                  A: We have provided a choice of submitting many forms of documentation to demonstrate residency so that an undocumented family may still prove that residency within the boundaries of our district regardless of immigration status.

                  Family Participation in the Process
                  Q: Why do you need me to come in to verify my residency?
                  A: Providing us information to verify residency is necessary for families to receive tuition-free educational services from our school. At this time, our procedures require families to come in and present this documentation.

                  Cost/Benefit
                  Q: How many students are attending who arenít residents of our district?
                  A: While exact numbers are extremely difficult to estimate, we reviewed several hundred residency cases during the 2013-2014 school year. In the process of questioning and investigating, some families voluntarily withdrew their students from our school, while others were determined to be non-residents consistent with the procedures in the Illinois School Code. We estimate that we discouraged or actively blocked 80-100 students who were not residents of our district from attending school this year.

                  Q: Are all the people here on the payroll?
                  A: We used a combination of internal staff and external experts to run our residency process. The internal staff was chosen because of familiarity with our systems. The external staff members were brought in as they have expertise in examining residency documentation and investigating these cases.

                  Q: Does catching non-residents actually save money?
                  A: It costs approximately $20,000 a year to educate a student at Oak Park and River Forest High School. If we take a conservative estimate of 30 students who would have attended but were turned away or determined to be non-residents, this amounts to approximately $600,000.

                  Is Participation in this Process Mandatory?
                  Q: What if I refuse to participate? How can you keep my student from attending a public school if I choose not to go through this process?
                  A: If you choose not to participate, you would be considered a non-resident and therefore not entitled to the tuition-free educational services of the district.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    Originally posted by Low dribble View Post
                    It certainly increases the odds. The rest of your paragraph is simply what ALL coaches are supposed to do regardless of the talent level on their team.
                    Renting does not make you a property tax payer. Yes the owner of the building pays taxes on the building and he pays taxes base on the value of the building.

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Originally posted by 2twins View Post
                      Renting does not make you a property tax payer. Yes the owner of the building pays taxes on the building and he pays taxes base on the value of the building.
                      Ok? What does that have to do with my comment about coaching an All-Star team?

                      Comment


                      • #41
                        Originally posted by Gladguy View Post
                        This is what happens for EVERY student that attends OPRF.


                        Cost/Benefit
                        Q: How many students are attending who arenít residents of our district?
                        A: While exact numbers are extremely difficult to estimate, we reviewed several hundred residency cases during the 2013-2014 school year. In the process of questioning and investigating, some families voluntarily withdrew their students from our school, while others were determined to be non-residents consistent with the procedures in the Illinois School Code. We estimate that we discouraged or actively blocked 80-100 students who were not residents of our district from attending school this year.
                        Thanks for the info, but I most certainly wasn't talking about OPRF in my comments. That Q/A looks like something I imagine all districts have on their websites.

                        Interesting that the part I highlighted actually shows that there are kids who slip thru the cracks. Some get caught, and some don't. That part I'm very familiar with.

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by 2twins View Post
                          Renting does not make you a property tax payer. Yes the owner of the building pays taxes on the building and he pays taxes base on the value of the building.
                          If the tenant does not pay rent, how do the taxes get paid? The owner figures out the tenants' pro rata share when calculating how much rent to charge each tenant. It is semantics. Everyone is not a home owner,but they still contribute by paying their rent to the tax burden shared by a particular village unless the land lord takes their rent money and then does not pay the tax bill. In Cook County, residential properties and commercial are assessed at different levels further complicating the issue.

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Originally posted by Gladguy View Post
                            This is what happens for EVERY student that attends OPRF.

                            Q: Why do you conduct residency verification?
                            A: Illinois public schools are mandated by the Illinois School Code to ensure that students attending the school district on a tuition-free basis are residents of the district. While the law does not dictate how a studentís residency within the district should be determined, the mandate to ensure students attending our school are residents is the basis for our residency verification process.
                            Gladguy. Whats the average home value and say taxes in the OPRF school district?
                            Q: I have lived in the district for many years and pay a lot of money in taxes. Why do I have to do this?
                            A: Tenure in the district was not a factor in our determining who was required to participate in our residency verification process. We also made a conscious decision to require this process for all families requesting tuition-free access to our school. We greatly appreciate the ongoing support of our tax-payers in the district. Still, we felt that the inconvenience of residency verification is outweighed by the benefits of ensuring that only families who live in and are residents of the district have access to our schools.

                            Confidentiality and Security
                            Q: Why do you need my confidential information?
                            A: We do not need your confidential personal information (e.g., bank account number, credit card numbers). The residency guidance from the Illinois State Board of Education requires that we offer the choice of many forms of documentation to prove residency. You have two choices if you are concerned about sharing sensitive personal information: 1) You may redact all personal information except for your name and address on any bill you provide us, or 2) you may choose other forms of residency documentation that do not contain sensitive personal information.

                            Q: Who can see my information?
                            A: Once we gather the residency verification information it becomes part of the studentís record. The records and information contained in the studentís school record is protected so that only staff that has a legitimate educational interest may view it. Normally, the only people who need to see the residency verification supporting documents are administrators, individuals with the registrarís office, and residency compliance officers.

                            Q: What security measures do you have in place to ensure the protection of my personal information?
                            A: We have a host of security software products, including a DMZ, firewalls and virus protection to protect the information contained within a studentís record. In addition, the documents and information gathered resides on servers within the premises of the high school and access is only provided to staff that has a legitimate educational interest in viewing such information.

                            Q: How would I know if these security measures failed?
                            The information gathered in support of a student's residency are considered student records pursuant to the Illinois School Student Records Act (ISSRA) and the Family Educational Rights and Privacy Act (FERPA). This information cannot be released without the consent of a student's parent/guardian unless the release meets an exception under the law. Therefore, if any of the District's security measures related to maintenance of student records are breached, the District must notify the parents/guardians of such students.

                            Q: Is my information ever sold to a third party?
                            Both ISSRA and FERPA prohibit the District from selling student records information or any personally identifiable information concerning students and/or their parents to any outside party. In addition, Oak Park River Forest High School District Board policy 7:15 explicitly prohibits the marketing or sale of personal information concerning students, including student records information.  

                            Information Requested
                            Q: Why is it important to know where siblings of the student attend?
                            A: Knowing where siblings attend provides us additional information to support a claim of residency in the district. For example, the fact that younger siblings attend either District 90 or 97 schools provides us an indication that the family may be legitimate residents of the district.

                            Q: Why do I have to sign the Affidavit of Residency? Isnít it against the law to ask that parents sign this?
                            A: An affidavit of residency is your statement that the information you are providing as the basis for residency and receiving the tuition-free educational services of our school is true. It is not against the law to ask you to sign such an affidavit.

                            Q: There was a question on the enrollment under the residency section that asked if the child received any social supportóis this just for residency?
                            A: Yes. You would go through a separate process at the time of fee payment to apply for financial assistance.

                            Students with Special Circumstances
                            Q: How does this process affect homeless students?
                            A: Homeless students do not have to go through the residency verification process.

                            Q: How does this process affect undocumented students?
                            A: We have provided a choice of submitting many forms of documentation to demonstrate residency so that an undocumented family may still prove that residency within the boundaries of our district regardless of immigration status.

                            Family Participation in the Process
                            Q: Why do you need me to come in to verify my residency?
                            A: Providing us information to verify residency is necessary for families to receive tuition-free educational services from our school. At this time, our procedures require families to come in and present this documentation.

                            Cost/Benefit
                            Q: How many students are attending who arenít residents of our district?
                            A: While exact numbers are extremely difficult to estimate, we reviewed several hundred residency cases during the 2013-2014 school year. In the process of questioning and investigating, some families voluntarily withdrew their students from our school, while others were determined to be non-residents consistent with the procedures in the Illinois School Code. We estimate that we discouraged or actively blocked 80-100 students who were not residents of our district from attending school this year.

                            Q: Are all the people here on the payroll?
                            A: We used a combination of internal staff and external experts to run our residency process. The internal staff was chosen because of familiarity with our systems. The external staff members were brought in as they have expertise in examining residency documentation and investigating these cases.

                            Q: Does catching non-residents actually save money?
                            A: It costs approximately $20,000 a year to educate a student at Oak Park and River Forest High School. If we take a conservative estimate of 30 students who would have attended but were turned away or determined to be non-residents, this amounts to approximately $600,000.

                            Is Participation in this Process Mandatory?
                            Q: What if I refuse to participate? How can you keep my student from attending a public school if I choose not to go through this process?
                            A: If you choose not to participate, you would be considered a non-resident and therefore not entitled to the tuition-free educational services of the district.
                            So what's the average cost of homes in the OPRF school district and the average property values.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              Originally posted by 2twins View Post
                              So what's the average cost of homes in the OPRF school district and the average property values.
                              Look it up. Find a realtor

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                Oak Park is one of the most unique towns in the nation. While most suburbs went through "white flight," Oak Park embraced it. Look it up. The homes are very pricey. While some suburbs put a for sale sign up if someone of color moved in, Oak Park embraced diversity.

                                I know this because I am a social studies teacher AND I build custom made wooden radiator covers, almost exclusively in Oak Park. Shameless plug: if you have radiators in your home and would love beautiful, decorative, custom made wooden covers, PM me.

                                Oak Park does not allow you to put a for sale sign on your lawn. You can list it of course but no signs. In the 60s-70s when people moved in, they were greeted by neighbors with cakes and such instead of racist graffiti. Blocks formed "clubs" where they would meet once a month and discuss the neighborhood and all were welcomed.

                                I used to hire wrestlers from PW to help and install and such over the summer. OP is the only place my wrestlers were greeted with a smile instead of "that look."

                                Why are they so strict about residency: simple, live east of Austin Ave and go to CPS, west, you attend one of the most well run schools in the state. It really has nothing to do with sports/wrestling. If they didn't check, every parent east of Austin would send their kids there. Who could blame them? They hired a retired FBI agent to check. They watch the L every day. They come to homes and ask to see the child's tooth brush.

                                There is no need for the IHSA or people on this website to question residency. Trust me, OPRF will handle that better than anyone. And if you do reside. No problem. Also, they go after people violating residency laws with big time attorneys and go after tuition that would make the privates look like chump change. mi dos pesos.
                                Always support your local wrestling tournament concession stands!!!

                                Comment

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