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Odom vs Ragusin

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  • Odom vs Ragusin

    Im looking for some feedback.....i personally feel this entire tournament has been officiated at a top notch performance all week .....our officials did a great job except for one officials complete meltdown in the third period where he did not simply miss a call or rule in favor of a guy in a questionable situation

    He waited till the final period in a one point match to fabricate a stall call on a mat return on the guy who seconds earlier just got three nearfall .....but he was not done yet seconds later when the same kid returned him to the mat againand even got a near fall swipe off it when the bottom got to his feet he hit him a gain for a point and completely wiped away a kids chances who entered the period down 2 points and he was on top and came up with a great tilt for 3 near fall and the ref almost instantly completely erased the lead and how the last minute was wrestled

    I have Ragusin as my 106 champ ...but this will make ya sick .....a locked hands that is missed or a stalemate call you may not like it but that's wrestling and you accept it......but unless there is a rules explanation thatexplains it he should never be near a match with so much at stake again

  • #2
    I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college

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    • #3
      Originally posted by will-I-am View Post
      I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college
      Yes that is the rule in college im pretty certain it first is a statemate then a stall.....i have not got a chance to see a video yet but idont think either instance was 5 seconds or do I remember seeing the ref counting
      Id like to give the benefit of the doubt but i was in a spot close to that match and i felt then it was a terrible situation and brutal officiating
      But with my track record i should probably drop it until i watch the tape lol

      Comment


      • #4
        I thought it was way too quick as well i watched it 3 times on the webcast.

        Comment


        • #5
          With all respect, the Edwardsville coaches were going nuts for Luke to cut him. He's a hugely experienced wrestler and a similar situation occurred in the Cheesehead finals.

          I would expect him to have a better feel there, but it happens to the best of us lol ��

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by HandControl View Post
            I thought it was way too quick as well i watched it 3 times on the webcast.
            Thatwas my reaction ......just to clarify im not taking any thing away from Ragusin or even saying he would of lost but the ref absolutely changed rhe direction in how odum had to finish the match ......the ref basically said cut him or im gna put this match neutral and ultimately you wilmlose 2 points

            I wonder if the outside ref has any say so in this situation because the only way the lead ref could justify his basis for calling the stalls if he was basing it off a rule that he either interperted incorrectly or he counts to 5 faster than a 5 year old playing hide and seek

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            • #7
              Quickstick... I agree 100%, not the best ref match of the night! Took away the chance to be a 4x state champ, tough pill to swallow.

              What about the back points? ref was out of position.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by will-I-am View Post
                I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college
                The rule is misinterpreted by most. Top guys have roughly 5 seconds to Attempt a return. Quick stall calls in this position are garbage. There is definitely not a count involved or a hard rule of 5 seconds = stalling.
                "Intensity, Integrity, and Intelligence"

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by will-I-am View Post
                  I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college
                  Not so cut and dry as there is no 5 seconds to return rule.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Red Turban View Post
                    With all respect, the Edwardsville coaches were going nuts for Luke to cut him. He's a hugely experienced wrestler and a similar situation occurred in the Cheesehead finals.

                    I would expect him to have a better feel there, but it happens to the best of us lol ��
                    Awareness cost him the match. The obvious blunder was getting 2 stall calls but the crucial mistake was immediatley after he hit the Steiner tilt. That position is basically a reinforced chicken wing that he could have rode the match out in. He should have lay in that tilt position until the final whistle and if Ragusin did belly out he should have held on to the wing and wrist to ride out and win. He reset and things went down hill from there.

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                    • #11
                      ...

                      Originally posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
                      Awareness cost him the match. The obvious blunder was getting 2 stall calls but the crucial mistake was immediatley after he hit the Steiner tilt. That position is basically a reinforced chicken wing that he could have rode the match out in. He should have lay in that tilt position until the final whistle and if Ragusin did belly out he should have held on to the wing and wrist to ride out and win. He reset and things went down hill from there.
                      That was my feeling exactly. I was in the stands saying "stay there".

                      Still, the tilt situation may be upperclass savvy. But he certainly knows how to cut and downblock for 1 minute.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by Red Turban View Post
                        With all respect, the Edwardsville coaches were going nuts for Luke to cut him. He's a hugely experienced wrestler and a similar situation occurred in the Cheesehead finals.

                        I would expect him to have a better feel there, but it happens to the best of us lol ��
                        Hey RT ?.... i heard the coaches yelling that but not until after the first stall ...im going strictly off memory till i see it again but i have to disagree
                        I feel the y were bad calls and not justified so ill be damn if im gna question my kids match awareness or where he wants to finish the match or cut him based off terrible calls i would a been at the table wanting a explanation for the firet call and then adleast know what he feels is worthy of stalling if he had the rule mixed it would a been understood before i sent my wrestlersout there in the final minute with a state final at stake .......i promise you If the roles were reversed Izzy would a snatched the time clock and not give it back till it was absolutelyclear what and when the ref feels a stalling is warrented

                        Did he call it cuz he judged it as a stall or did he call based off a 5 second riule

                        Making the wrestler the scape goat is ridiculous he was composed and i think perfectly within the rules ....this is not the cheesehead this is to go to the state finals and ias of now i blame the ref 100%
                        its serves no purpose to bring a kids experience or previous instance into the conversation....he didn't make a mistake or get caught or appear to panic As far i could tell he wa the exact opposite hit a clutch tilt and almost tilted him again in a 30 second portion of the match and itsnot like he wasnt returning him he returned to the mat

                        True to form there is a possibility my memory of that is not exactl i neer saw the kid live before but he was getting it done within the rules ... For now im sticking to my recollection of how it happened
                        Also do you remember if at the start of the second period didnt they tell odom to defer rather than go down because that could be huge mistake if it goes to
                        Overtime
                        At my age a simple mat return is like a commercial i forget it as soon as i see the next one happen

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                        • #13
                          There is no 5 second count to mat return rule in high school.

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                          • #14
                            ...

                            QS the 5 second return rule is only in college. At HS level it's totally discretion. In fact HS wrestling referees have the second most power in all sports behind soccer referees.

                            My kids loses at least 1-2 points every single match. We just plan it into the game plan.

                            The Wrestler totally had it in his power to finish that match as a winner. But like I said, even the best and most experienced can make costly mistakes!

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Red Turban View Post
                              QS the 5 second return rule is only in college. At HS level it's totally discretion. In fact HS wrestling referees have the second most power in all sports behind soccer referees.

                              My kids loses at least 1-2 points every single match. We just plan it into the game plan.

                              The Wrestler totally had it in his power to finish that match as a winner. But like I said, even the best and most experienced can make costly mistakes!
                              There is no 5 second return rule in college either. If the ref feels the offensive wrestler is making a legitimate attempt to return his opponent to the mat then there is no stalling call. It could take say 20 or 30 seconds before he calls stalling as long as he's trying to bring him back to the mat. Obviously is he is just holding on then most guys will get hit in about 5 seconds.

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