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Odom vs Ragusin

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  • #16
    Originally posted by dahdah View Post
    There is no 5 second return rule in college either. If the ref feels the offensive wrestler is making a legitimate attempt to return his opponent to the mat then there is no stalling call. It could take say 20 or 30 seconds before he calls stalling as long as he's trying to bring him back to the mat. Obviously is he is just holding on then most guys will get hit in about 5 seconds.
    Exactly, the only requirement is that the offensive wrestler AGGRESSIVELY ATTEMPT to return the defensive wrestler to the mat.

    Further, the only "5 second" rules that apply in wrestling are as follows:
    1. 5 seconds heal trapped to butt (automatic stalling call) - NFHS Rule 5.24.4.b can also be found in NFHS Rule 7.6.4.b (not counted and verbalized by official)
    2. 5 seconds of being below the hip in College (counted and verbalized by official)
    3. 5 second count for a 3 point nearfall in NFHS


    I believe that is the only time 5 seconds will come up. I'd be in favor of adding #2 to the NFHS and counting and verbalizing #1 in High School.
    If you dont know what your talking about, learn...
    If you do know and complain, do it yourself...

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by GOHARDorGOHOME View Post
      Exactly, the only requirement is that the offensive wrestler AGGRESSIVELY ATTEMPT to return the defensive wrestler to the mat.

      Further, the only "5 second" rules that apply in wrestling are as follows:
      1. 5 seconds heal trapped to butt (automatic stalling call) - NFHS Rule 5.24.4.b can also be found in NFHS Rule 7.6.4.b (not counted and verbalized by official)
      2. 5 seconds of being below the hip in College (counted and verbalized by official)
      3. 5 second count for a 3 point nearfall in NFHS


      I believe that is the only time 5 seconds will come up. I'd be in favor of adding #2 to the NFHS and counting and verbalizing #1 in High School.
      There is also the 5 second count when the top guy has a side headlock in college.

      Comment


      • #18
        Originally posted by GOHARDorGOHOME View Post
        Exactly, the only requirement is that the offensive wrestler AGGRESSIVELY ATTEMPT to return the defensive wrestler to the mat.

        Further, the only "5 second" rules that apply in wrestling are as follows:
        1. 5 seconds heal trapped to butt (automatic stalling call) - NFHS Rule 5.24.4.b can also be found in NFHS Rule 7.6.4.b (not counted and verbalized by official)
        2. 5 seconds of being below the hip in College (counted and verbalized by official)
        3. 5 second count for a 3 point nearfall in NFHS


        I believe that is the only time 5 seconds will come up. I'd be in favor of adding #2 to the NFHS and counting and verbalizing #1 in High School.
        Furthermore, I believe the 5 second rule for taking the butt also requires the defensive wrestler to be broken down on the mat. If the defensive wrestler is in his base, the rule does not apply.

        Comment


        • #19
          I see that call a lot and it usually happens when a stronger wrestler stands up and a weaker guy is trying to return him to the mat. My guy gave up 2 points for trying to return a stronger wrestler to the mat, he kept trying to lift and the other guy just hooked his leg inside and prevented the lift and then my guy tried to front trip and both times the ref hit him with stalling. I don't get it, I understand just standing there holding the guy from behind but if your trying to bring him back to the mat and the stronger wrestler is just standing there trying to break your grip or running forward out of bounds how does the rider get penalized.

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          • #20
            Originally posted by Nelson*0.5 View Post
            Furthermore, I believe the 5 second rule for taking the butt also requires the defensive wrestler to be broken down on the mat. If the defensive wrestler is in his base, the rule does not apply.
            Correct, the rule exactly as written is “legally holds the heel to the buttocks while the defensive wrestler is broken down on the mat for more than five seconds”
            If you dont know what your talking about, learn...
            If you do know and complain, do it yourself...

            Comment


            • #21
              Originally posted by mike_spar View Post
              I see that call a lot and it usually happens when a stronger wrestler stands up and a weaker guy is trying to return him to the mat. My guy gave up 2 points for trying to return a stronger wrestler to the mat, he kept trying to lift and the other guy just hooked his leg inside and prevented the lift and then my guy tried to front trip and both times the ref hit him with stalling. I don't get it, I understand just standing there holding the guy from behind but if your trying to bring him back to the mat and the stronger wrestler is just standing there trying to break your grip or running forward out of bounds how does the rider get penalized.
              It drives me nuts when the quick stall call is made in the rear standing position. As long as the wrestler is aggressively attempting a mat return, stalling should not be called. Further, the official should always check to see what the defensive wrestle is doing with his hands because often they will hold the offensive wrestlers hands to try and get a stall call before magically busting loose the same second or seconds later. In that case, stalling could/should be called on the defensive wrestler.
              If you dont know what your talking about, learn...
              If you do know and complain, do it yourself...

              Comment


              • #22
                Haven't seen the rule book in a lot of years. I can tell you that the officials have a meeting to go over points of emphasis every year before regionals. They have been calling it that way most of the year and especially in the state series. I've taught my kid to count to 4 in his head and release. Rule or not, that's how they have been calling it.

                Comment


                • #23
                  There is no clear cut 5 seconds on rear standing or on the ankle. It's up to the referee. If the top wrestler is attempting to turn the bottom wrestler he can have the ankle. If the top wrestler is trying to return the wrestler then the ref doesn't have to call stalling. I've seen refs let it go for 15+ seconds, it's all about "attempt to return"

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Originally posted by Quickstick View Post
                    Im looking for some feedback.....i personally feel this entire tournament has been officiated at a top notch performance all week .....our officials did a great job except for one officials complete meltdown in the third period where he did not simply miss a call or rule in favor of a guy in a questionable situation

                    He waited till the final period in a one point match to fabricate a stall call on a mat return on the guy who seconds earlier just got three nearfall .....but he was not done yet seconds later when the same kid returned him to the mat againand even got a near fall swipe off it when the bottom got to his feet he hit him a gain for a point and completely wiped away a kids chances who entered the period down 2 points and he was on top and came up with a great tilt for 3 near fall and the ref almost instantly completely erased the lead and how the last minute was wrestled

                    I have Ragusin as my 106 champ ...but this will make ya sick .....a locked hands that is missed or a stalemate call you may not like it but that's wrestling and you accept it......but unless there is a rules explanation thatexplains it he should never be near a match with so much at stake again
                    What did the kid do and what rule was the ref thinking? (I am interested because one thing that used to be common that you never see anymore is instead of starting neutral, giving 1 point and the opponent is 100% ready, we cut a guy & and as soon as the ref said 1 take him down again because half the time the guy wasn't ready to defend fast enough. I don't know why that is no longer common.)
                    There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      Originally posted by will-I-am View Post
                      I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college
                      Ask any official there is no period of time set to it. It is simply are you working to better your situation.

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Originally posted by Central IL Guy View Post
                        Ask any official there is no period of time set to it. It is simply are you working to better your situation.
                        im not denying, which is why i said i might be wrong

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          My broadcast partner and I were both focusing on that match. The instant we saw the first stalling warning made, we just looked at each other and said, 'Oh, my God, this is not going to end well,' and it didn't. I thought the rest of the tournament was well officiated. The final minute of that match was not.

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Originally posted by will-I-am View Post
                            I believe the rule is cut and dry. You have 5 seconds to mat return or your hit with stalling, unfortanetly it happened twice in a short time. I could be wrong but that's how it's called in college
                            This rear stand stall call rule is not cut and dry in high school. Any official will tell you there is no automatic 5 second call in the rear stand. Yet, if you watch enough tape you realize that nearly every official calls it in 5 seconds, a few wait for 6 seconds. That wouldn't be bad since everyone knows it is coming. But if a rear stand wrestler is able to push him off the mat before the 5 seconds is up, that's fine (if that makes any sense)! The officials can do what they want with the 5 second stall call, everyone knows they will only get 5 seconds. But they have to do something about letting guys push the front stand guy out of bounds (they say they penalize, but let the rear stand guy nearly get away with murder before nailing him for fleeing).

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Originally posted by SIU Dog View Post
                              This rear stand stall call rule is not cut and dry in high school. Any official will tell you there is no automatic 5 second call in the rear stand. Yet, if you watch enough tape you realize that nearly every official calls it in 5 seconds, a few wait for 6 seconds. That wouldn't be bad since everyone knows it is coming. But if a rear stand wrestler is able to push him off the mat before the 5 seconds is up, that's fine (if that makes any sense)! The officials can do what they want with the 5 second stall call, everyone knows they will only get 5 seconds. But they have to do something about letting guys push the front stand guy out of bounds (they say they penalize, but let the rear stand guy nearly get away with murder before nailing him for fleeing).
                              You see a lot of drop to a leg then push them off in college. PSU did it this entire weekend.

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