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  • Tournament Scoring

    Is a 4 man bracket scored differently than an 8 man bracket for Regionals? Are the place points different and there should be no byes, correct?

  • #2
    Originally posted by TWTilt View Post
    Is a 4 man bracket scored differently than an 8 man bracket for Regionals? Are the place points different and there should be no byes, correct?

    Obviously a wrestler in an 8 man bracket can score more team points than one in a 4 man due to the potential for more matches. The 9 and 10 team regionals can have brackets that are even more valuable from a team perspective No matter what size bracket, itís still 2 points for a win on the championship side and 1 point for a win on the consolation side and the same bonus point values are in play.

    Placement points are identical no matter what size the bracket, 14-10-7-4.

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    • #3
      points

      Originally posted by ctdad View Post
      Obviously a wrestler in an 8 man bracket can score more team points than one in a 4 man due to the potential for more matches. The 9 and 10 team regionals can have brackets that are even more valuable from a team perspective No matter what size bracket, itís still 2 points for a win on the championship side and 1 point for a win on the consolation side and the same bonus point values are in play.

      Placement points are identical no matter what size the bracket, 14-10-7-4.
      In a 4 man bracket the place points are not the same. Last year the team that won or regional did not enter their 106 pounder and it became a 4 man bracket. The team that got second by 1 point won the bracket and if it was a 5 to 8 man bracket they would have won the tournament.
      Nobody ever drowned in their own sweat

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      • #4
        Originally posted by eazymoney View Post
        In a 4 man bracket the place points are not the same. Last year the team that won or regional did not enter their 106 pounder and it became a 4 man bracket. The team that got second by 1 point won the bracket and if it was a 5 to 8 man bracket they would have won the tournament.
        But that was because Aledo’s wrestler would have had a bye in the first round and thus had his point total doubled when he won his semifinal. In other words, the advancement points were different because of the 4 man bracket vs the 8 man bracket. The placement points were still 14-10-7-4.

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        • #5
          yes

          Originally posted by ctdad View Post
          But that was because Aledoís wrestler would have had a bye in the first round and thus had his point total doubled when he won his semifinal. In other words, the advancement points were different because of the 4 man bracket vs the 8 man bracket. The placement points were still 14-10-7-4.
          You are correct in that. I meant placing first in a four man bracket as opposed to a 5 man bracket if two top seeded wrestlers have the exact same results the top seed in a 5 man bracket will score more points wrestling the same amount of matches. Doesn't really seem fair to punish a team with a great wrestler at that weight because other teams don't have a wrestler there.
          Nobody ever drowned in their own sweat

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          • #6
            Originally posted by eazymoney View Post
            You are correct in that. I meant placing first in a four man bracket as opposed to a 5 man bracket if two top seeded wrestlers have the exact same results the top seed in a 5 man bracket will score more points wrestling the same amount of matches. Doesn't really seem fair to punish a team with a great wrestler at that weight because other teams don't have a wrestler there.
            I have been saying this for years. If you are using the regional to select the team champ that moves on then it needs to be fixed. All brackets need to be scored the same.

            If team A has the number one seed and team B has a guy who probably won't win a match and the bracket is 9 guys, it is an advantage for team B to pull their guy and make it a 8 man bracket. That is ridiculous.

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            • #7
              Tournament manual talks about "power of 2" meaning brackets of powers of 2 are scored differently, so a 2 man a 4 man an 8 man and a 16 man bracket are scored differently, 8 man would include 5 6,7 or 8. This is regardless of the physical size of the bracket. Track is set to score that way.

              As for your claim about being advantageous for pulling your guy, very curious what is advantageous about wrestling with 13 weight classes as opposed to 14 weight classes.

              This rule is set for everyone in the bracket to be scored the same. It's an NFHS rule. I believe college is the same way but you rarely have brackets that arent full in college.

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              • #8
                Originally posted by HawkeyeMG View Post
                Tournament manual talks about "power of 2" meaning brackets of powers of 2 are scored differently, so a 2 man a 4 man an 8 man and a 16 man bracket are scored differently, 8 man would include 5 6,7 or 8. This is regardless of the physical size of the bracket. Track is set to score that way.

                As for your claim about being advantageous for pulling your guy, very curious what is advantageous about wrestling with 13 weight classes as opposed to 14 weight classes.

                This rule is set for everyone in the bracket to be scored the same. It's an NFHS rule. I believe college is the same way but you rarely have brackets that arent full in college.

                It is advantageous if you don't expect your wrestler to win any matches. By pulling out you change the bracket from a 16 man to an 8 man which reduces the points there stud can score

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                • #9
                  Originally posted by eagle View Post
                  It is advantageous if you don't expect your wrestler to win any matches. By pulling out you change the bracket from a 16 man to an 8 man which reduces the points there stud can score
                  And you give any shot to get any points at that weight. I have yet to meet a coach who feels this would be advantage at a regional. The placement points would not change since you only place top 4.

                  You are trying to tell me that you would sacrifice any chance of points at a weight to make sure that their stud doesnt earn an extra 4 points ( 2 for advancement 2 for a pin)

                  What team who is worried about the team score doesnt have a wrestler who would be worth the shot to earn 5 points total thus be worth while to keep them in the lineup?

                  And if you arent concerned about team score, then what do you care about how many points their stud has?
                  It is an uphill battle winning a regional with less wrestlers than someone else, hardly "advantageous"

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                  • #10
                    Originally posted by eazymoney View Post
                    In a 4 man bracket the place points are not the same. Last year the team that won or regional did not enter their 106 pounder and it became a 4 man bracket. The team that got second by 1 point won the bracket and if it was a 5 to 8 man bracket they would have won the tournament.
                    So you would say it's in the best interest to fill you out your lineup?

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                    • #11
                      Originally posted by HawkeyeMG View Post
                      So you would say it's in the best interest to fill you out your lineup?
                      I get your point, coach and am with you in your philosophy but...

                      In that particular example the team that won the regional seemed to be better off without a 106 than a 106 that was likely not to score.

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                      • #12
                        Originally posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
                        I get your point, coach and am with you in your philosophy but...

                        In that particular example the team that won the regional seemed to be better off without a 106 than a 106 that was likely not to score.
                        In that particular one yes, and I could show you 3 others that it would be no. In general you are better to have a wrestler there, never know if someone gets hurt, DQed, goes on tilt after losing in the championship bracket. You never know.

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                        • #13
                          I would never pull a kid on purpose. I was just demonstrating that the scoring system isn't fair. All brackets should be scored the same way.

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                          • #14
                            No

                            Originally posted by HawkeyeMG View Post
                            So you would say it's in the best interest to fill you out your lineup?
                            Advantages to not. If the team that won would have entered their kid the 2nd place team would have won.
                            Nobody ever drowned in their own sweat

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                            • #15
                              Originally posted by eazymoney View Post
                              Advantages to not. If the team that won would have entered their kid the 2nd place team would have won.
                              Or maybe they would have won if they had a 182 and/or a 285 pounder.

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