Announcement

Collapse
No announcement yet.

Tournament Scoring

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

  • #16
    If and buts

    Originally posted by ctdad View Post
    Or maybe they would have won if they had a 182 and/or a 285 pounder.
    The other team knew they didn't and pulled their kid after the seeding meeting.
    Nobody ever drowned in their own sweat

    Comment


    • #17
      Originally posted by eazymoney View Post
      The other team knew they didn't and pulled their kid after the seeding meeting.
      Just bustin your chops coach, although I think you need to enter people if you can. You never know. I always refer back to the Rock Island regional 4-5 years ago when Moline won by 2.5 points by bumping their 220 (a loaded bracket that year) up to 285 where he got third and inserting a JV 195 pounder in at 220. Kid got a pin in the consolations worth 3 points.

      BTW you never made Pete sing the national anthem like you promised/threatened LOL; thought of it when I heard Ben Meenan did it for you this year.

      Comment


      • #18
        Tournament Scoring - Part II

        For the 2nd year in a row, I have to tolerate using a piece of software that ignores a significant rule of NFHS tournament scoring.

        Rule 10-3.2: There shall be no byes after the first round of competition in both the championship and consolation brackets, and no further drawing is necessary for championship or consolation rounds.

        Yet, TrackWrestling scores on the “appearance” of the bracket and ignores this important rule. That’s why Regional Statisticians have to choose a “bracket type,” 16-man, 8-man, or 4-man, prior to seeding depending on how many competitors are in the bracket. If you had only 8 guys after weigh-in scratches and you had still selected the 16-man bracket type for example, the scoring would be incorrect. You needed to have changed it the 8-man format. So here's the error... in a 9-man bracket, if that pigtail loser wins his first round consolation, his advancement and bonus points get doubled, because Track has moved all the byes over from the other 7 quarterfinals into the consolation (a 16-man bracket) and is applying the same rule for treating byes that they did in that first round of competition!

        My stone age 16-bit software has always scored based on the power of 2 algorithm...exactly according to NFHS Rules. You could literally choose any bracket format, even a 24 or 32 man bracket, and if you only have 7 competitors, it will score it exactly per NFHS rules. This old software has been manually verified multiple times, for decades... by me personally, and coaches like my buddy Mark King, who still manually keeps LT’s scores at every tournament and always stops by the head table to confirm with me.

        Here’s my Libertyville Regional scored both ways. All those teams that Track gave too many points to (in red) had pigtail losers who won their first round consolation and got double points.

        I wonder how many other Regional decisions are being made in error today because Track doesn’t follow NFHS rules of scoring?

        TrackWrestling Scoring
        1 Libertyville, IL 213
        2 Deerfield (h.s.), IL 172.5
        3 Gurnee (Warren), IL 156.5
        4 Fox Lake (Grant), IL 143
        5 Zion (Z.-Benton), IL 127.5
        6 Mundelein (h.s.), IL 97
        7 Waukegan (h.s.), IL 71
        8 Highland Park, IL 63.5
        9 Round Lake, IL 62

        NFHS Rules of Scoring
        1 Libertyville 213
        2 Deerfield 166.5
        3 Warren 156.5
        4 Grant 143
        5 Zion-Benton 125
        6 Mundelein 97
        7 Waukegan 71
        8 Round Lake 62
        9 Highland Park 56.5


        If I'm wrong, I'm interested in hearing your interpretations. Who oversees Track, Flo...? Does everybody just trust software to always be right?

        Added Note (2/3): It's wrong for me to call The Wrestling Tourney by PES-Sports as "my software." This software was originally constructed by Bob Munds and Kevin Cotter over 40 years ago. These two gentlemen are truly legends in the IL wrestling community that probably very few have ever heard of. Thank you men for developing a software program that made tournament management not only easy, but FAIR!
        Last edited by ILWrestle; 02-03-2019, 07:42 PM. Reason: Adding credit where credit is do!

        Comment


        • #19
          Originally posted by ILWrestle View Post
          For the 2nd year in a row, I have to tolerate using a piece of software that ignores a significant rule of NFHS tournament scoring.

          Rule 10-3.2: There shall be no byes after the first round of competition in both the championship and consolation brackets, and no further drawing is necessary for championship or consolation rounds.

          Yet, TrackWrestling scores on the “appearance” of the bracket and ignores this important rule. That’s why Regional Statisticians have to choose a “bracket type,” 16-man, 8-man, or 4-man, prior to seeding depending on how many competitors are in the bracket. If you had only 8 guys after weigh-in scratches and you had still selected the 16-man bracket type for example, the scoring would be incorrect. You needed to have changed it the 8-man format. So here's the error... in a 9-man bracket, if that pigtail loser wins his first round consolation, his advancement and bonus points get doubled, because Track has moved all the byes over from the other 7 quarterfinals into the consolation (a 16-man bracket) and is applying the same rule for treating byes that they did in that first round of competition!

          My stone age 16-bit software has always scored based on the power of 2 algorithm...exactly according to NFHS Rules. You could literally choose any bracket format, even a 24 or 32 man bracket, and if you only have 7 competitors, it will score it exactly per NFHS rules. This old software has been manually verified multiple times, for decades... by me personally, and coaches like my buddy Mark King, who still manually keeps LT’s scores at every tournament and always stops by the head table to confirm with me.

          Here’s my Libertyville Regional scored both ways. All those teams that Track gave too many points to (in red) had pigtail losers who won their first round consolation and got double points.

          I wonder how many other Regional decisions are being made in error today because Track doesn’t follow NFHS rules of scoring?

          TrackWrestling Scoring
          1 Libertyville, IL 213
          2 Deerfield (h.s.), IL 172.5
          3 Gurnee (Warren), IL 156.5
          4 Fox Lake (Grant), IL 143
          5 Zion (Z.-Benton), IL 127.5
          6 Mundelein (h.s.), IL 97
          7 Waukegan (h.s.), IL 71
          8 Highland Park, IL 63.5
          9 Round Lake, IL 62

          NFHS Rules of Scoring
          1 Libertyville 213
          2 Deerfield 166.5
          3 Warren 156.5
          4 Grant 143
          5 Zion-Benton 125
          6 Mundelein 97
          7 Waukegan 71
          8 Round Lake 62
          9 Highland Park 56.5


          If I'm wrong, I'm interested in hearing your interpretations. Who oversees Track, Flo...? Does everybody just trust software to always be right?

          Excellent points as well as your articulation of the issue. Fortunately, it did not make a difference in the overall winner in this particular instance. However, it is important to really look into this as it could be the difference in other instances.

          I think that we should be able to trust software provided it has been written correctly, properly verified, and continuously monitored. There still is human error that needs to be rechecked, at least on the Track Wrestling side.
          "Hard work shows desire, sweat shows commitment!"

          Comment

          Working...
          X