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-   -   Impeachment: Call to order! (http://illinoismatmen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=67062)

Crystal Clearly 10-23-2019 09:55 PM

The "genius" of some people, including those duly elected senators and congressmen and women, is that they feel there has to be another crime, even before the crime(s) of; conspiracy, obstruction of justice, perjury, bribery, etc., before a president can be impeached, not to mention investigated - or removed from office.

The ridiculous spectacle of today proves that there are those who will defend the indefensible without merit, without evidence and without conscience whatever the consequences to the country and the citizens therein.

The President is single handedly turning this country into an afterthought, a nonfactor on the world stage that has not been seen since well before World War I.
Then there was an overwhelming majority who thought that the US should abstain from the war in Europe - not unlike those who felt the same during the 1930s, when Europe's impotence in properly dealing with Adolf Hitler led to some of the worst atrocities the world has ever known.

Those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it.

MAL 10-24-2019 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChiefIllini1 (Post 556882)
Crime?

Senator MAL, we have multiple crimes. There's Arms for Dirt, which is extortion; violations of campaign finance laws; conspiracy (Giuliani, Sondland, Trump and probably Pompeo and Barr), and finally obstruction of justice (hiding the whistleblower complaint and securing the "transcript" in the top secret server).

It is so bad, I am going to tweet these questions to Republican Senators right after I'm done with this comment:

Well, how many Republican Senators do you have ready to march in your parade to the White House?

Awhile back I was having a discussion with a Police officer...I brought up the point that there is almost nothing that that a person can do that can not be perceived to be illegal...he not only agreed enthusiastically, he let me know that I had no idea how right I was. In politics party affiliation and/or ideology is the main factor that determines how someone perceives the events of the day.

I have a fairly clear impression of your perception of Trumps actions...for the most part I have a different perception...allow me to demonstrate how party affiliation can blind the party faithful...this works both ways, Republican or Democrat it doesn't matter. For the purpose of this exercise we are going to talk about Hillary and her emails. There is no question that Hillary had an unauthorized server. There is no question that she had classified documents on that server. That is a textbook example of a violation of the espionage act, but only Republicans cared about it. That would carry a healthy prison sentence for just about anybody except Hillary. That is the kind of hyper partisan political environment that we are in...nobody cares as long as they win.

Your enthusiasm for impeachment is misguided...Nancy is not conducting an impeachment. She needs to call a vote to proceed with that, but if she calls for a vote, the Republicans will then be allowed to call witnesses and ask questions. That is the reason that I do not believe she will ever start the actual impeachment process. The way that they are conducting the process gives her complete control...they call the witnesses they want, question them in secret, leak what they want to leak from the secret inquiry and all the Republicans can do is nip at her heals as she kicks them across the room.

Now the reality of the situation. Trump enjoys about a 90% approval rating with Republicans. There is no way that the Republicans in the Senate would ever dream of voting to convict...it would be political suicide...they are not going to jeopardize their power no matter how much they hate Trump...and Nancy is not going to start the impeachment process unless they can drive Trumps numbers down to about 30%. Nancy is on a safari, trying to find enough red meet to feed the blood thirsty savages that want Trumps head on a stick.

Crystal Clearly 10-24-2019 04:17 PM

INVESTIGATE
- verb

in·ves·ti·gate
\in-ˈve-stə-ˌgāt\

: to try to find out the facts about (something, such as a crime or an accident) in order to learn how it happened, who did it, etc. : to try to get information about (someone who may have done something illegal)

Full Definition:

in·ves·ti·gat·ed; in·ves·ti·gat·ing
- transitive verb

: to observe or study by close examination and systematic inquiry

intransitive verb

: to make a systematic examination; especially : to conduct an official inquiry

Webster's Dictionary

Crystal Clearly 10-24-2019 04:47 PM

TRIAL
- noun

tri·al

\ˈtrī(-ə)l\

: a formal meeting in a court in which evidence about crimes, disagreements, etc., is presented to a judge and often a jury so that decisions can be made according to the law: a test of the quality, value, or usefulness of something: a test of someone's ability to do something that is used to see if he or she should join a team, perform in a play, etc.

Full Definition

1: the formal examination before a competent tribunal of the matter in issue in a civil or criminal cause in order to determine such issue

2a : the action or process of trying or putting to the proof : test

b : a preliminary contest (as in a sport)

Webster's Dictionary

MAL 10-24-2019 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Crystal Clearly (Post 556897)
INVESTIGATE
- verb

in·ves·ti·gate
\in-ˈve-stə-ˌgāt\

: to try to find out the facts about (something, such as a crime or an accident) in order to learn how it happened, who did it, etc. : to try to get information about (someone who may have done something illegal)

Full Definition:

in·ves·ti·gat·ed; in·ves·ti·gat·ing
- transitive verb

: to observe or study by close examination and systematic inquiry

intransitive verb

: to make a systematic examination; especially : to conduct an official inquiry

Webster's Dictionary

Investigate is all Nancy is planning on doing...she will not start the impeachment process because then she will not have absolute control over what is leaked to the press...it will be in a public forum. There is a legitimate Impeachment process, it starts with a vote to "commence impeachment proceedings".

oldpioneer 10-25-2019 06:14 AM

MAL just as in all federal investigations, they gather as much evidence as possible before going to trial. Deal with it. The speaker of the house is just Taking a little advice from Abraham Lincoln. I don’t know the exact quote but he said if someone gave me 45 minutes to chop down a tree, I would spend a half hour sharpening my blade.

MAL 10-26-2019 12:06 AM

Sen. Graham introduced resolution condemning the House impeachment inquiry. He now has 50 co-sponsors for his resolution. Getting a conviction in the Senate is just about impossible...but you can still dream.

OP, In an impeachment trial, the evidence is gathered after the House has voted to commence, and at that time the rules and procedures of the process are determined. Until that vote happens, she is just yanking tour chain.

MAL 10-26-2019 08:41 PM

Fun fact
 
Senators are not allowed to campaign for the office of President during an impeachment...I hope Nancy calls for a vote!!!

ChiefIllini1 10-27-2019 01:36 AM

According to the Washington Post, Ambassador to the EU Gordon Sondland told the Impeachment committees that it was a quid pro quo.

Ergo, Gordon Sondland:

(A) ... was joking.
(B) ... is part of the "deep state."
(C) ... was only a coffee boy.
(D) ... was exactly right because quid pro quos are just the bestest now since everbody does them all the time, and if a president does one involving personal political interests and taxpayer money it can't be a crime, and even if it was a crime, it doesn't amount to sufficient reason to remove a president. And Hillary Clinton's emails.

Crystal Clearly 10-27-2019 07:40 PM

This was just waaaaay too good to let go without sharing. :p

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2019/10/27/p...sis/index.html


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