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-   -   The North remembers... (http://illinoismatmen.com/forum/showthread.php?t=66128)

Truth is Out There 02-11-2019 09:42 AM

The North remembers...
 
https://intermatwrestle.com/articles/21396

Read the article in the above link. It's interesting in more than a few ways.

I have three distinct impressions:

First off, the official in question, hired by the host school, may have been abusing his power. Made a call he shouldn't have as per the description in the article then followed it with a perhaps unwarranted unsportsmanlike call for something the kid said in response then put the cherry on the sundae with the unsportsmanlike after the match for flexing.

Sidebar: if flexing after a match is that bad, I know some kids that should've been banned from the sport.

Secondly, the fact that a judge was even willing to listen to this argument is troubling. The administration of any wrestling contest lies with the official presiding over it -- as it should. Any appeal to the head official or tournament director is where it ends. We may have just witnessed Pandora's whistle giving us a tweet. The fact that a court was willing to hear this case AND overrule it means we have a storm on the horizon. Final results won't be known until adjudication is completed I guess...

There's a line forming at the courthouse now. In the now infamous Woah video, does Mrs. T's vengeful dash onto the mat warrant a double disqualification? Let juris prudence make that call?

This is a very bad thing. We've often been told about slippery slopes... well, this is attempting to walk down one of those 200 foot water-slides if you ask me. No place in the sport for it.

Last but not least, the WI kid named in the article sounded familiar. Hayden Halter. Where had I heard that name before?

Oh yeah! That's the kid who supposedly moved to Illinois for his 8th grade year to help his youth club with their dual team title pursuits. I guess he didn't like it since his family supposedly moved back to WI for his freshman year.

Let's stop cheating each other people. It's disrespectful. The biggest cheating, however, isn't anything on the mat. It's how we cheat our kids out of the chance to learn to be a good person with the examples we set. Just because you're allowed to get away with something doesn't mean you should.

I don't know if the Halters ever actually moved to Illinois or not. It certainly doesn't appear that way from the series of events I'm aware of. In either case, it's quite easy to infer that any move -- real, or reported -- wasn't done for (as they say on the Bachelor) the "right reasons".

calotofwrestling 02-11-2019 09:57 AM

I have heard it all Kevin your preaching about being respectful.Hi pot, meet kettle.

Truth is Out There 02-11-2019 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by calotofwrestling (Post 550688)
I have heard it all Kevin your preaching about being respectful.Hi pot, meet kettle.

Thanks for your continued support Corby. Some people go looking for the disrespect which comes their way. Try to remember that and you'll have an easier time of it. Just my recommendation.

Me? I gotta roll, can't stand still. Got a flaming heart, can't get my fill.

calotofwrestling 02-11-2019 10:31 AM

Black Dog great song.I know you will keep rolling

oldpioneer 02-11-2019 10:33 AM

That is a very interesting article. It also sets an unsettling precedent. Any controversial call in sports has been upheld once called and the final buzzer sounds. Are we going the direction of the NFL? Should we start recording matside?

By the way TOT, listen to Led Zep much?

Truth is Out There 02-11-2019 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldpioneer (Post 550699)
That is a very interesting article. It also sets an unsettling precedent. Any controversial call in sports has been upheld once called and the final buzzer sounds. Are we going the direction of the NFL? Should we start recording matside?

By the way TOT, listen to Led Zep much?

Unsettling precedent? With the pack of overly-litigious weirdos we have in our sport? That's not cottage cheese coming from Wisconsin, it's more like cottage industry!

For the record, I'm not even in favor of the brick.

Led Zeppelin, for me, is like there's a light in your eye that keeps shining.
Like a star that can't wait for a night.

PapaBearSLIM 02-11-2019 11:37 AM

This isn't the 1st nor will it be the last time someone hired a lawyer because they didn't like a ruling. 99.9% of the time the judge throws it out or sides with the governing body's original ruling. Every now and then the judge will grant an injunction (Mt. Carmel). Point is it has happened before, will again and sports will survive.

Pro sports have safeguards in place to keep in game action out of the courts.

FWIW I believe the ref went into o overkill with UC #2 but...
That kid cost his ex team (team he was flexing on) a shot at state finals last year with the same flex and UC that cost the dual. Personal responsibility.

ironman 02-11-2019 12:04 PM

just a question
 
Article mentioned a 1 "match" suspension. In theory could he have forfited first match, went in to losers bracket and continued to wrestle? Or is he no allowed to weigh in?

ref99 02-11-2019 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironman (Post 550716)
Article mentioned a 1 "match" suspension. In theory could he have forfited first match, went in to losers bracket and continued to wrestle? Or is he no allowed to weigh in?

I think by "match" they may mean event (dual or tournament), not a singular match.

I am not sure if the article writer got the events wrong or just wrote it badly, but by my reading, the kid was penalized once for UC during the match (which would be a match point) and penalized once for UC after the match (which would be a team point).

Unless there was a second UC that is not described in the article or the WI policies around UC are a lot different from IL I am confused how the suspension was warranted.

Truth is Out There 02-11-2019 01:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM (Post 550715)
This isn't the 1st nor will it be the last time someone hired a lawyer because they didn't like a ruling. 99.9% of the time the judge throws it out or sides with the governing body's original ruling. Every now and then the judge will grant an injunction (Mt. Carmel). Point is it has happened before, will again and sports will survive.

Pro sports have safeguards in place to keep in game action out of the courts.

FWIW I believe the ref went into o overkill with UC #2 but...
That kid cost his ex team (team he was flexing on) a shot at state finals last year with the same flex and UC that cost the dual. Personal responsibility.

We've all had our kids screwed by vindictive officiating. My favorite is when they glare at you to indicate they're using your kid to get back at his parent.

I've seen enough of it to last a lifetime... but I'm not ready to pick up my USA Today and do early checkout just yet so I suspect there will be more.

The only real point you made here is that the ref went into overkill. The article was written in a way to convey that. And, the more details which emerge, it certainly has that feel.

"99.9% of the time" may provide some comfort to some folks but the precedent is now there. It's the latest precedent which adds to the net effect. Have we now opened the gates?

Make no mistake. Whatever safeguards you feel are in place for pro sports didn't prevent the headlines for the consortium of Saints fans suing the NFL for the blatantly blown call at the end of their playoff run. And it will likely bring about rule changes to assuage the situation going forward.

Youth sports will definitely NOT survive if this is allowed to continue (i.e. courts allowing themselves to hear and render judgment on youth sports calls made by officials).

Bringing up the Mt. Carmel injunction might seem relevant -- but it isn't. That was a procedural issue. Not something which occurred on the mat under the auspice of an appointed official. That DID belong in the courts and did bring light to another rule we have in place if only to point out how truly pointless it is. But this is Illinois, the land of Lincoln -- and pointless rules -- which are firmly embraced, if only selectively enforced.

As for "personal responsibility", I guess your buddy Corby calling me out for respect brought you to a "hold my beer" moment.


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