Illinois Matmen Forums Illinois Matmen Forums

Go Back   Illinois Matmen Forums > Non-Wrestling > Non-Wrestling Talk

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #381  
Old 12-20-2019
Crystal Clearly Crystal Clearly is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Outside your house, right now
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpioneer View Post
Why not just released the perfect phone call.? And stop impeding White House staffers from testify?
Because, if he releases the information that has been SUBPOENAED and allows those who have been SUBPOENAED to testify in an open Senate trial he/they cannot claim Executive Privilege and Trump would be sunk.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...VOKelGiXHHy2Qw

Pay attention to the ruling in US v. Nixon.
Reply With Quote
  #382  
Old 12-20-2019
MAL MAL is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpioneer View Post
Why not just released the perfect phone call.? And stop impeding White House staffers from testify?
Nixon Did not release the tapes until he lost the the case at the Supreme Court.
Nancy did not want to take it to court.

No Lawyer would extend the case beyond the point that he knew that he won the case. Trump doesn't need new evidence to exonerate himself in the Senate. Anything that he gives them will be interpreted to be bad for Trump. Just look at what they did with the transcript. They miss quote the text to say I instead of we...they ignore the fact that he prefaced what he said with "OUR" country has been through a lot". If the tapes look bad for Trump they will be shouted from the roof top. If they exonerate him, nobody will play them in prime time and it will be the shortest news cycle that you have ever seen.

Why don't you release your tax records so we can see what you have been doing on the side? It doesn't make sense does it?
Reply With Quote
  #383  
Old 12-20-2019
MAL MAL is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Clearly View Post
.

https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...VOKelGiXHHy2Qw

Pay attention to the ruling in US v. Nixon.
You make a good point. I have previously said in this thread that Trump most likely would not prevail in court with his blanket executive privilege claim. To the Democrats I say...shut up and take it to court!
Reply With Quote
  #384  
Old 12-20-2019
Blonjuan44's Avatar
Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChiefIllini1 View Post
Is the dam breaking?

Today, a leading magazine for Evangelical Christians came out strongly for removal of impeached president Donald J. Trump. Christianity Today was founded by Billy Graham, and it has been called "evangelicalism's flagship magazine" by no less than the Washington Post. The entire editorial is a delight to read, and I recommend it. Here are a few of the more glorious snippets:



Unconstitutional and "profoundly immoral" is how Christianity Today describes Trump's actions regarding Ukraine and VP Biden. I agree, although my language would be, perhaps, a little more salty. But they don't stop there:



Ouch? And then:



And finally, for the pinfall:



I am stunned. Yet, there is still hope for the impeached and immoral president. He still has Jerry Falwell, Jr., Franklin Graham and Poolboy University behind him!

The support for a spoiled obnoxious criminal weirdo is odd. I guess it is the American way - now. Love it or leave it. 50% say they want him out, but he would win the electoral college. They should simply ask Milwaukee and Philly which Dem they want, those locations will control the election. Iowa is a wast e of time and they are asking a red state which blue candidate they want, bad idea.
__________________
There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...
Reply With Quote
  #385  
Old 12-20-2019
ChiefIllini1 ChiefIllini1 is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 1,874
GHOST CHIEF brings the rain unto the parched soil, the ray of sunshine to shine brightly upon the dim soul, and the hard candy for all the children. I pointed out the Christianity Today article, and, lo, the Heavens have opened up.

At this minute, #ChristiansAgainstTrump is the Number One trend in our Wonderful Country, the United States of Kick###!

May it always be so.
Reply With Quote
  #386  
Old 12-20-2019
Crystal Clearly Crystal Clearly is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Outside your house, right now
Posts: 802
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
Nixon Did not release the tapes until he lost the the case at the Supreme Court.
No Lawyer would extend the case beyond the point that he knew that he won the case. Trump doesn't need new evidence to exonerate himself in the Senate. Anything that he gives them will be interpreted to be bad for Trump.
Nixon didn't release the tapes until he had to? That's your argument? Your rationalization?

Trump won't release any new evidence because he knows anything that has been subpoenaed, that he hasn't (reluctantly) released, would sink him.
Trump knows that he won't have to release anything else that has been subpoenaed because his lap dogs in the GOP won't make him.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
Just look at what they did with the transcript. They miss quote the text to say I instead of we...they ignore the fact that he prefaced what he said with "OUR" country has been through a lot". If the tapes look bad for Trump they will be shouted from the roof top. If they exonerate him, nobody will play them in prime time and it will be the shortest news cycle that you have ever seen.
What who did with the transcript?
The (rough) transcript? That the Trump White House released? That one?
Who exactly mis(s)quoted [you are an English teachers worst nightmare] the text of the transcript? Trump? His lawyers that had months to work on what they were going to release?
Who?
If there are (audio) tapes, they are buried deeper than the JFK files.
If there were audiotapes that were able to "exonerate" Trump, they would have been released before the (rough) transcript of the "perfect" phone call and we wouldn't be going through a presidential impeachment.
It wouldn't be an issue at all and they would be carving up Mount Rushmore right now......

You may very well be stupid enough to fall for the GOP/White House/FoxNews talking points regarding the wording being able to "exonerate" Trump - His base certainly is - but any intelligent, thinking person (without an agenda) does not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
Why don't you release your tax records so we can see what you have been doing on the side? It doesn't make sense does it?
Lamest douchebag argument, from a lame douchebag hack, there is........

Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
You make a good point. I have previously said in this thread that Trump most likely would not prevail in court with his blanket executive privilege claim. To the Democrats I say...shut up and take it to court!
I have previously read you saying, to some extent or another, that executive privilege would prevent witnesses from testifying and protect Trump. I will not look back through your drivel to find them, your posts are ridiculously tiring.
Reply With Quote
  #387  
Old 12-20-2019
Crystal Clearly Crystal Clearly is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: Outside your house, right now
Posts: 802
What innocent person prevents (subpoenaed) witnesses from testifying?
What innocent person blocks (subpoenaed) documents from being released?
What innocent person smears the reputation of witnesses who testify when they have been subpoenaed to do so?
What innocent person acts the way Trump has? If he is innocent?

None.
Reply With Quote
  #388  
Old 12-21-2019
MAL MAL is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Posts: 2,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Clearly View Post
Nixon didn't release the tapes until he had to? That's your argument? Your rationalization?

Trump won't release any new evidence because he knows anything that has been subpoenaed, that he hasn't (reluctantly) released, would sink him.
Trump knows that he won't have to release anything else that has been subpoenaed because his lap dogs in the GOP won't make him.



What who did with the transcript?
The (rough) transcript? That the Trump White House released? That one?
Who exactly mis(s)quoted [you are an English teachers worst nightmare] the text of the transcript? Trump? His lawyers that had months to work on what they were going to release?
Who?
If there are (audio) tapes, they are buried deeper than the JFK files.
If there were audiotapes that were able to "exonerate" Trump, they would have been released before the (rough) transcript of the "perfect" phone call and we wouldn't be going through a presidential impeachment.
It wouldn't be an issue at all and they would be carving up Mount Rushmore right now......

You may very well be stupid enough to fall for the GOP/White House/FoxNews talking points regarding the wording being able to "exonerate" Trump - His base certainly is - but any intelligent, thinking person (without an agenda) does not.



Lamest douchebag argument, from a lame douchebag hack, there is........



I have previously read you saying, to some extent or another, that executive privilege would prevent witnesses from testifying and protect Trump. I will not look back through your drivel to find them, your posts are ridiculously tiring.
There are three co-equal branches of government. The Executive, Legislative and the Judicial branch. When there is a dispute between the Executive and Legislative Branch, it is settled by the Judicial branch. Congress can not force the President to do anything...even with a subpoena. If Congress had power over the President they would not call it co-equal.

In a normal process Nancy would have taken it to court, and I think she would have won most if not all of the witnesses/evidence that was subpoenaed. I have never said that "Executive privilege would prevent witnesses" This is what I said to you...do you even read what I post?

"The Obstruction of Congress should get tossed out because Executive Privilege is every Presidents first option. That doesn't mean that Congress can't have access to the subpoenaed material/witnesses. It just means that they will have to make their case in court to force testimony. I believe Trump would have lost that battle in court, because he was claiming blanket Executive Privilege. No court would have given him that kind of sweeping immunity from testimony. Most if not all of the witnesses that did testify, testified because of a court decision that compelled them to appear."

" The house could have had any witness that they could get the courts to allow...but they did not want to wait. It is their own fault that they will not hear from the witnesses that they could have heard from if they would have simply used the legal remedy, they probably would have gotten nearly every witness that they wanted."

The process for documenting the transcript involves 4 people. Each of the 4 transcribe the call as it happens. After the call, all 4 get together and compare notes and make corrections until they have an agreed on version of the call. Two of those four testified before congress. If the transcript was significantly different from the call, those two Trump haters would have told Schiff. It was their job to get the transcript correct.

Here is where we actually disagree on something significant. I don't care if Trump said I want you to investigate the Bidens before I release the military aid. Hunter Biden was working for an Oligarch that was being investigated for steeling several Billion dollars of US aid. That investigation is in our national interest even if it does help Trump and/or clear the Bidens of any wrong doing. Joe Biden ended that investigation...I think Joe should get the chance to set the record straight while he is under oath.

Spoiler alert...most of the money ended up in the hands of one of the biggest Democrat donors...Ever heard of George Soros?

Fun Fact: Soros spent 17 million on the 2018 mid term elections...at least some of the money came back home.

Last edited by MAL; 12-21-2019 at 03:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #389  
Old 12-21-2019
Blonjuan44's Avatar
Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 2,705
Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
There are three co-equal branches of government. The Executive, Legislative and the Judicial branch. When there is a dispute between the Executive and Legislative Branch, it is settled by the Judicial branch. Congress can not force the President to do anything...even with a subpoena. If Congress had power over the President they would not call it co-equal.

In a normal process Nancy would have taken it to court, and I think she would have won most if not all of the witnesses/evidence that was subpoenaed. I have never said that "Executive privilege would prevent witnesses" This is what I said to you...do you even read what I post?

"The Obstruction of Congress should get tossed out because Executive Privilege is every Presidents first option. That doesn't mean that Congress can't have access to the subpoenaed material/witnesses. It just means that they will have to make their case in court to force testimony. I believe Trump would have lost that battle in court, because he was claiming blanket Executive Privilege. No court would have given him that kind of sweeping immunity from testimony. Most if not all of the witnesses that did testify, testified because of a court decision that compelled them to appear."

" The house could have had any witness that they could get the courts to allow...but they did not want to wait. It is their own fault that they will not hear from the witnesses that they could have heard from if they would have simply used the legal remedy, they probably would have gotten nearly every witness that they wanted."

The process for documenting the transcript involves 4 people. Each of the 4 transcribe the call as it happens. After the call, all 4 get together and compare notes and make corrections until they have an agreed on version of the call. Two of those four testified before congress. If the transcript was significantly different from the call, those two Trump haters would have told Schiff. It was their job to get the transcript correct.

Here is where we actually disagree on something significant. I don't care if Trump said I want you to investigate the Bidens before I release the military aid. Hunter Biden was working for an Oligarch that was being investigated for steeling several Billion dollars of US aid. That investigation is in our national interest even if it does help Trump and/or clear the Bidens of any wrong doing. Joe Biden ended that investigation...I think Joe should get the chance to set the record straight while he is under oath.

Spoiler alert...most of the money ended up in the hands of one of the biggest Democrat donors...Ever heard of George Soros?

Fun Fact: Soros spent 17 million on the 2018 mid term elections...at least some of the money came back home.
Republicans need to quit being snowflakes about Soros, your President is a self proclaimed billionaire. Super-rich on both sides. Trump derangement syndrome is not seeing that he is worse that Bill Clinton, they both cheated on their wives, both were impeached, but Trump got his buddies sent to jail - so he is worse. At least Clinton didn't ramble on about every topic he knows nothing about - now he talking about dishwashers? And now space force, what a waste of money - adds hundreds of administrators - could be just part of the air force.
__________________
There are two guys in that zebra costume! Very funny...

Last edited by Blonjuan44; 12-21-2019 at 11:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #390  
Old 12-21-2019
mckbln's Avatar
mckbln mckbln is offline
Sergeant Major
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: River Forest, IL
Posts: 10,072
Send a message via MSN to mckbln
Sorry Pelosi, you have NO say in what the Senate does, and you can't hold the Articles of Impeachment hostage until you get your way...LOL...an indictment (impeachment) is NOT a conviction.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLpLt8eCuEQ
__________________



"On the bloody morning after, one tin soldier rides away..."
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 06:28 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2020, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.