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  #11  
Old 02-02-2013
3peat 3peat is offline
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I think the above poster hit the nail on the head. For someone to say the IHSA should have punished the kids for a mistake is ridiculous.
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  #12  
Old 02-03-2013
muffinman1030 muffinman1030 is offline
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I guess coaches aren't responsible to READ and follow the rules. If they didn't know the rule until now, I wonder who wrestled illegally last year.

Simple logic would be, they put dates for each weight class your allowed to drop to. I wonder why they would put a date by it. Every single coach knows the rule and it is talked about at every wrestling meet/tournament. If Shelbyville wants to use ignorance has their excuse so be it.
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  #13  
Old 02-03-2013
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wrestling observer wrestling observer is offline
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You know teams are supposed to trade certification information at all duals and tournaments. This hardly happens anymore and you are looked at kind of funny when you ask for it, as if its top secret and you are cheating. Well, the rule is there so we can police our own. We had an instance this year where a kid didnt make weight for a team, and we then saw his coach put him in that weight anyways...We called him out, and he pulled the kid during our dual, but he actually wrestled him in the other dual. Not every coach is this way, but some are. I do not know the Shelbyville situation, but ignorance of the rules isnt an excuse in my opinion. Its a huge part of the coaches job knowing when each wrestler must be at a certain weight. Its not hard to understand, but it can be difficult to manage...Next season I suggest all coaches start asking for opposing team's certification sheets to keep people honest and in the know...I also feel the decent plan is to fast. We always have some boys that could drop a weight this time of year as their weight has finally settled in. Two months ago, their diet wouldnt get them where the IHSA said they could be...I would think slower decent would be a better and healthier option.
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  #14  
Old 02-03-2013
CIW04 CIW04 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muffinman1030 View Post
I guess coaches aren't responsible to READ and follow the rules. If they didn't know the rule until now, I wonder who wrestled illegally last year.

Simple logic would be, they put dates for each weight class your allowed to drop to. I wonder why they would put a date by it. Every single coach knows the rule and it is talked about at every wrestling meet/tournament. If Shelbyville wants to use ignorance has their excuse so be it.
The dates used to be there to let you know the earliest you could go to that weight. It didn't use to be the guideline for exactly when.

No excuse for the coaches/AD/etc. to not know the rule. I would guess it was probably a point of emphasis at some point. If not, I can see people missing it because the point of emphasis is usually what gets the most attention. I know from some of my former coaching colleagues that this school is not alone in doing this this year. They just got caught. The IHSA must not have saw intent to do it, if they did it would have probably been a harsher penalty. As for last year, I would bet it was probably similar. I am assuming that the Regional site last year didn't do its due diligence to check it. Kudos to Unity to get that done. I know several people there and they are always a class act. I thought the finals couldn't have been run any better. Didn't see the first half of the tourney, but they sure did keep things going well (even with scoreboard malfunctions).

Bottom line- This should be a non-issue from here on out, especially when the governing body (IHSA) cleared everyone and made them wrestle back up where they were. I have been on this side before and know other coaches with integrity who have made some mistakes. It is not a fun spot to be in especially when you had no intent. And when people harp on the point it mostly affects the kids who read about it more than the coaches/schools. Because, sadly, a lot of parents take out their frustration by wishing ill well and making comments to KIDS. That is inexcusable.

I agree with wrestlingobserver too, slower descent is probably more in the spirit of the IHSA weight control manual. If you want them to do it safely, you should give them more time. I can't imagine a kid wrestling a dual early in the week at one weight and having to cut 8-10 pounds by the time of a weekend tournament is safe. I was never opposed to making the weight certification dates later in the year. I thought they could postpone the growth allowance until the week before regionals. That would give schools more time and also let them have a nice burst of energy before the ever important postseason.
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  #15  
Old 02-05-2013
sagesdad sagesdad is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CIW04 View Post
To sagesdad and muffinman...first congrats to Monticello, I showed up at 2:00 for the finals (although things ran behind). They wrestled very well in the finals. I was definitely impressed. The Jozsa kid from Argenta was incredible to watch. He is a title-contender. I also really enjoyed the match at 126. Sloppy, but lots of action.

Of course, after the hubbub on here, I had to get the scoop on what happened-

sagesdad- the word I got from a tournament official was that the kids dropped too late. Apparently, the school in question was operating under old rules and thought they could drop at their own pace. I didn't know that last year that rule was changed to force kids to wrestle their declared weight the first meet after certification allows. Apparently, their coaches didn't know that, too. When I coached we could drop kids after the date as long as it was before regionals. That's no longer the case. So, they had to go back and bump kids back up in some of the weight classes which forced a lot of switching around. From what I heard, the IHSA reviewed the material and just said they had to bump the kids back up. Nothing further than that.

muffinman- the Christmas date thing was a big topic with some AO people there. From what I gathered, 1 kid had some matches listed as happening on Christmas day. No other kid on that team had matches listed like that. Considering there were several kids that had some weight concerns, you'd be stretching to think anything beyond inputting a wrong date on accident was the case. If they were looking to sneak a kid in they probably would have done it for all of them. I know when I coached, I surely messed some things up. Long nights of inputting takedowns, escapes, etc. can drain you.

At the end of the day, they were in violation of a rule and the IHSA asked them to correct it. People make mistakes. Lord knows I have made a lot.

I think people can sometimes be too quick to jump to conclusions. Especially, when it involves their children. We all get a little more fired up when we think we have been wronged. I always find that if you just give something a little more time, you can always see things a little more clearly and objectively. It was like earlier this year in the football season with Maroa (which indirectly affected AO in wrestling). People immediately heard "stories," about what happened. They jumped to conclusions and at the end of the day it was apparently much ado about nothing. Unfortunately, we drag kids, coaches, schools and parents in to a battle that they probably don't need to be embroiled in.

Again, let's just cheer on these kids and have some fun. Thanks to Unity for putting on a very well run tournament.
You are right i was given false imformation from coach. I apoligize!!!
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  #16  
Old 02-07-2013
Chim Richalds Chim Richalds is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 3peat View Post
I think the above poster hit the nail on the head. For someone to say the IHSA should have punished the kids for a mistake is ridiculous.

I agree with this...... Not the kids' fault!
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  #17  
Old 02-07-2013
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wrestling observer wrestling observer is offline
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So, did the Ihsa suspend the coach?
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  #18  
Old 02-07-2013
xcoach xcoach is offline
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no...they ruled an oversight and made the kids wrestle up
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  #19  
Old 02-07-2013
singledad365 singledad365 is offline
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congrads to shelbyville rams wrestling

I just want to say we may not have won regionals as a team, but finishing 2nd and sending 11 wrestlers to sectionals is amazing accomplishment. This has been an historic season for the Shelbyville wrestling program. Having set a team record for dual meets 28-4, winning the Okaw Valley Confrence, finishing 4th at St. Thomas Moore Holiday Tourney against some of the best teams in the state just shows you that this is a team to be looking at in the future. Congrads to all the kids very proud of each and everyone of them. GO RAMS
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  #20  
Old 02-07-2013
muffinman1030 muffinman1030 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by singledad365 View Post
I just want to say we may not have won regionals as a team, but finishing 2nd and sending 11 wrestlers to sectionals is amazing accomplishment. This has been an historic season for the Shelbyville wrestling program. Having set a team record for dual meets 28-4, winning the Okaw Valley Confrence, finishing 4th at St. Thomas Moore Holiday Tourney against some of the best teams in the state just shows you that this is a team to be looking at in the future. Congrads to all the kids very proud of each and everyone of them. GO RAMS

You need to put an * next to winning the Okaw Valley. How many of those kids wrestled the wrong weight class at the Okaw Duals according to the weight IHSA made them wrestle at regionals b/c thier coach does not know how to read the rule book.
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