Illinois Matmen Forums Illinois Matmen Forums

Go Back   Illinois Matmen Forums > Statewide > Illinois Matmen News > Rob Sherrill's Blog

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #21  
Old 01-25-2008
Joe Terronez Joe Terronez is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Posts: 116
Three Classes

I dont support another class, if it only has 12 wrestlers per class. We have ALOT OF TALENT STATEWIDE, so they should go to at least 16 qualifiers per class like Iowa, or forget it.
Yes our smaller schools have been dropping wrestling for years, but they have also been consolidating for years also. Why? For financial survival.
I may be wrong but Iowa has many NAIA, Division III, II, and I wrestling colleges, and they are some of the top in all divisions in the country! These wrestlers are mostly from Iowa, and many from other states, WHY, because they are competitive in these divisions, and it opens alot of doors for MANY GOOD AND great HIGH SCHOOL WRESTLERS TO COMPETE ON THE NEXT LEVEL. I think it has alot to do with the success the wrestlers and COMMUNITES have in the Iowa high school program.
Coming from a small AA school, the support we got correlated directly with our success. When we went to A, it increased, and when we went back to AA, the support died down as we didnt have the same success!
A few years ago we could of done well in A, but were moved to AA, and
were beaten up in the AA regional.

I'm not saying the three class system will be a cure all, but we will continue to lose on our CURRENT PATH, but as schools consolidate that didnt have wrestling, may have more money and see similiar schools have success in wrestlng their size, who knows?

Yes, we should move slowly but surely, but as I said in the beginning, without more state qualifiers, it would not be a good idea!!!!
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 01-26-2008
Pressure33's Avatar
Pressure33 Pressure33 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 527
Rob - You mention schools in central Illinois experiencing an upswing... but how many of them have produced results on the state level? Any placers? No, because they can not compete with the big dogs. These coaches are working their a$$es off for only a smaller scale of success. On a more equal scale these kids win a medal and get some real recognition. Three classes needs to be implemented for the good of all. You have not seen the destruction of AA programs yet... is that what you are waiting for to realize a change needs to happen... I hope not.
__________________
“After Wrestling Everything In Life Is Easy”
DAN GABLE

Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 01-26-2008
old105 old105 is online now
Varsity
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Posts: 220
few things

First off, I like 2 classes. Just some thoughts.

In the same survey, the schools voted to hold a three day state track meet. I know track was already supposed to be 3 classes but they ran into some logistic problems. I read the IHSA now has a plan how to run a 3 day meet and I assume EIU was consulted. So the three day tournament doesn't seem to be a stumbling block.

Isn't their a wrestling advisory board made up of coaches, anybody know their stance?

I don't know how many old timers are out there, I am sure there were the same arguments when it went to 2 classes. Obviously there was no IM message board back then, but how passionate was that debate and say after 5 years of two classes what were the thoughts?

P.S. This blog is the best thing to happen on IM in a long time.
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 01-26-2008
Rob Sherrill Rob Sherrill is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,259
Interesting couple of points raised here. Bucksman, Division 1 in Ohio has become a crashing bore the last five to 10 years with the dominance of St. Edward. Division 2 actually got better depthwise than Division 1 earlier this decade, but now the dominiance of Graham has taken the life out of that class, too. What's there now that's worth watching? How many of their own state records St. Edward and Graham will break this time? It's hard to believe, but everybody will be watching Division 3 because of the incredible team race brewing between Troy Christian, Marion Pleasant and Monroeville. That's a race that could grip the fans for the next few years, too.

One reason the state tournament doesn't have some of the excitement it used to has nothing to do with the number of classes. Team scoring was dropped in 1984, when the duals were added. We've missed out on some incredible team races that would have occurred in the years since. Could you imagine the excitement that would have been added to last year's AA finals - compelling and star-studded just on their own - plus a team race that had Montini, Sandburg and Glenbard North all within five points of each other going in? How would Benefiel have approached that match against Blanton if he'd had the weight of Montini's first AA team title on his shoulders? Wouldn't that drama have packed the Assembly Hall? I remember the years when Mike Manahan and I would present the rationale for bringing back team scoring to the IHSA Board of Directors. Every time it's been proposed, the Board has shot it down flat. Their reasoning is that every other sport has one state champion and that wrestling has no right to special treatment; wrestling can have either a dual or an individual state champion, but not both. Doesn't make any sense to me - about 10 states that have duals have two sets of champions - but that's always been their position.

Pressure33, the upswing at the schools I mentioned has only taken place over the last year or so, so you've got to be patient. Champaign Central significantly upgraded their schedule this year with two trips to the Chicago area and Seth Noland was a match away for Canton last year. Hononegah and Mahomet have more losses this year because they continued to upgrade theirs. Taylorville deserves some credit for a team that's gone an all-time best 17-1 after being a Springfield-area doormat for most of its existence. Sure, their schedule wasn't very tough, but they have a reason to feel good about themselves now, and maybe this will inspire them to start wrestling better people in the next couple of years.

The only schools I can think of that have given up hosting programs in the last five years or so are Kankakee and Eastland, and Eastland is at least part of a co-op. I'm challenging you to name any. Sure, schools like Pleasant Plains and Farmington and Spoon River Valley and Galena don't have wrestling any more, but those programs - and programs of their ilk - disappeared 20 years ago. Not any time recently.

The issue of filling 14 weight classes is certainly problematic. Some states have classes with lineups of as few as six players in football. I'd certainly have no objection to the establishment of smaller lineups for small-school teams. It's now 21 years since the current weight classes were established, so it's certainly time to revisit this issue on a national basis.

Finally, thanks for the compliment, old105. I'm having fun with it.

Last edited by Rob Sherrill; 01-26-2008 at 06:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 01-26-2008
wrestling observer's Avatar
wrestling observer wrestling observer is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Oakford, IL
Posts: 3,333
I have heard talk of Auburn trying to start a new High School team, and rumors of Athens wanting to bring it back after 20 years...These are small town schools here in central Illinois...Ive also heard talk of Athens possibly starting as a CO-OP...Rochester recently started wrestling, and New Berlin now has IKWF with hopes of a high school program...So maybe some growth is in the future...
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 01-26-2008
Rob Sherrill Rob Sherrill is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,259
There are a few down that way, which is good to see...Athens and Pleasant Plains were both big rivals of Porta when they still had programs. My point is that the trend seems to be towards starting, not dropping, as some here seem to be saying.
Reply With Quote
  #27  
Old 01-26-2008
agdfan's Avatar
agdfan agdfan is offline
COE COLLEGE KOHAWKS
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: Aledo, Illinois
Posts: 1,904
I agree

This blog is the best thing to happen to this subject. There are some very interesting points that have really made me give this whole thing some thought, and it's always good to get other perspective like Moline, RI, schools that size. Thanks Joe, for that. Sometimes we tend to get in our own little bubble and stay there. I definitely have quite a bit to keep me busy thinking for a few days. Very refreshing that this isn't a bash-fest or jab-fest. And Bucksman always has something thought provoking to offer!!
__________________
Coe College Kohawks
Reply With Quote
  #28  
Old 01-26-2008
Pressure33's Avatar
Pressure33 Pressure33 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 527
I don't think that the way that the IHSA has outlined the implementation of 3 Classes is the best scenereo. I do, however, think that the current system needs adjustment and if 3 Classes is the only thing that will move in that direction then I favor it. Rob, can you honestly say that you have not seen the big dogs move more and more toward an elitist status and the smaller publics getting less and less of a sniff come state tournament time. I imagine if someone took a good look at the number of placers from these borderline public schools you would find a huge falling off in the past 10 years or so and I don't think you can attribute it all to lack of effort on their part. You make good points of programs who are vastly improving...but in reality they are a far stretch from competing or narrowing any gap with statewide competition of the Catholic and public powers. I do not expect that it will ever be completely balanced field. I do feel that it can be greatly improved. A more balanced field will lead to more excitement for a greater number of fans and teams and give each schools athletes and coaches a reasonable chance to achieve the same goals as others.
__________________
“After Wrestling Everything In Life Is Easy”
DAN GABLE

Reply With Quote
  #29  
Old 01-27-2008
Rob Sherrill Rob Sherrill is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 1,259
Pressure33, I certainly sympathize with the smaller AA programs. But no matter where you draw the line, somebody's always going to be the smallest. The great Chicago-area programs have always been great. The reason the state expanded from 16 to 24 in each weight class in AA (and, as a result, from eight to 12 in each weight class in A) back in 1978 - 30 years ago - is that the Chicago-area schools felt they were being underrepresented. You could make the same argument today. The downstate schools actually have more slots in the state tournament on a per-capita basis than the Chicago-area schools do now, so from that standpoint, they actually have a little bit of an advantage. But the more individuals you bring to the state tournament, the more two-and-out individuals you bring, too.

The conditions you describe have been in place for some time. Rome wasn't built in a day...it took us years to get where we are now and in this age of instant gratification, many people expect some kind of a quick fix to be possible, but quick fixes don't exist in wrestling. Thank goodness the likes of Champaign Central, Canton and Taylorville don't feel as sorry for themselves as you feel for them. I salute them for their hard work and their improvement, and I'm sure none of them would expect that results occur overnight...they are the result of months and years of hard work. One of the favorite sayings of Jeff Buxton, the coach at Blair Academy and someone I know well, is this: "We don't focus on rankings or championships. We focus on improvement."

Last edited by Rob Sherrill; 01-27-2008 at 01:56 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #30  
Old 01-27-2008
Pressure33's Avatar
Pressure33 Pressure33 is offline
Varsity
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 527
"Feeling Sorry" is not the intention of my postings. I am only pointing out some of the deficiencies IMO in our current system. I also salute the smaller schools coaches & wrestlers efforts and determination in an attempt to compete. I have spoken with many of the schools in this situation and their coaches would also like to see a change of some sort. You take a very hard line on the other side. Do you fell that the current system is the best we can do? The facts are hard to ignore... 800 vs. 3500 is not an equal playing field any way you wish to spin it. No it can not be perfect...and there will always be the schools on the low end. It can be adjusted to reflect more appropriate numbers.
__________________
“After Wrestling Everything In Life Is Easy”
DAN GABLE


Last edited by Pressure33; 01-27-2008 at 12:19 PM.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 04:36 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.