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  #11  
Old 02-16-2019
whatsgoingon whatsgoingon is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Posts: 51
[QUOTE=PapaBearSLIM;551337]I would suck at the job (mostly do to not having the time to put into it to do it to my best ability) so I didn't take it. Some others should use such discretion.

It's a tough job, I get it. But some of the calls were not worthy of state level officiating. If Nate or any other official feels a certain type of way about being criticized, you are in the wrong profession.[/QUOTE]

Exactly

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
Just because I either don't want to do or would also suck at your job does not make it ok to suck at your job or make you beyond criticism.

The, "then you do it" response to criticism is beyond weak and deflects from the real issue.
Very weak

Quote:
Originally Posted by Clarion167;551346[B
]I'm not interested in being an official... nor am I interested in their cry baby attitude toward those who challenge their work on the mat. There are two of you on each mat... get it right![/B]
well said

Maybe just maybe you refs should worry more about getting calls right then going on a website to see what others are saying about you. I would bet the ones making bad/questionable calls are the ones not concentrating on their jobs and more worried about what all these "know it alls" are saying.
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  #12  
Old 02-16-2019
Nate Kessen Nate Kessen is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 37
No hugs, just need more refs!

Quote:
Originally Posted by chino1992 View Post
Sounds like the ref needs a hug!
NOT ME! I've got a beautiful wife for that!

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulach View Post

Do you guys (Refs) look at the film at the end of the season and go over matches/calls?
We certainly do. Thousands of hours of video is scoured through to develop our clinic (teaching and learning) material. Correct calls, incorrect calls, judgement calls...they all make their way into the videos and power point slides.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulach View Post

With that, do/could add coaches throughout the state reviewing film together and get different perspectives to be more consistent.
Mike Powell and I along with others, put together a coaches and officials convention this past fall. We held a rules interpretation meeting with coaches and officials. First time that has happened in awhile. We are doing it again in October. Check it out!

https://iwcoa.net/coaches-officials-convention/
https://www.btschicago.org/coaches-convention/

Quote:
Originally Posted by gulach View Post
In the rules.. Is there a difference in high school wrestling and college wrestling?
There are some pretty significant rule differences between high school and college. Nearfall, boundary lines, illegal moves, stalling, top position wrestling, and the list goes on and on. NCAA and NFHS are two separate governing entities with two different agendas. NFHS has to worry about a whole different set of matters than the NCAA. Safety is a key focus for NFHS. NCAA is dealing with a much more wrestling savvy group of competitors from top to bottom.

Last edited by Nate Kessen; 02-16-2019 at 03:32 PM. Reason: grammar
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  #13  
Old 02-16-2019
PapaBearSLIM's Avatar
PapaBearSLIM PapaBearSLIM is offline
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Join Date: Apr 2008
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Frustration and emotion lead to many of my posts. I truly understand how tough of a job it is and if the pool is smaller than optimal then maybe the next step is making the job more desirable. At the moment I'm not sure how to do that but am willing to brainstorm.
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  #14  
Old 02-16-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 2,822
The donít knock it until you try it philosophy is not The ultimate response to everything. A pilot doesnít stand up in the cockpit and walk out and say if you donít like the way Iím flying this airplane you fly. But it sure does silence a lot of critics because it makes people realize they are criticizing a job that they really want no part of. Refs are being chastised and even threatened across the nation right now as our teachers and police officers. They all have to bake some very difficult decisions and are all very important. What it actually is in a lesson of empathy . In the words of one of my favorite men of the sport, Mr. Brooks, ď gentlemen, you were all going to see a lot of calls today. Some of them you will love, some of them you will hate. But you are going to learn to have to live with all of them! ď
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  #15  
Old 02-16-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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Plus, The refs aren’t actually asking people to fly an airplane. They’re actually asking them to simply make the same judgment that they do hundreds of times a day. They are basically saying, if you could see it from the top row so easily come on down on the mat.
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  #16  
Old 02-16-2019
Grapple20 Grapple20 is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 39
Iíve been a ref in 3 states now for 17 years and IL refs are by far the worst. Out of position, inconsistent and flat out lazy.

Every year I go to the clinic and rules meeting, watching videos of state tournament referee gaffes. Itís a joke. And ratings donít count for anything since most coaches donít rate.

And thereís 2 on a mat and they canít get things right.
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  #17  
Old 02-16-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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I really don’t understand the use of two refs though. The head rest should make all the calls and the second one should only be there for a, anything illegal or potentially dangerous, or b when consulted tell them exactly what they saw.
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  #18  
Old 02-16-2019
215fan 215fan is offline
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This is a tough thread..... to say the least.

I wrestled through HS then coached for a decade or so. I saw some good and some bad officiating over the years. Been to a few dozen state finals, BIG10s, NCAA... again I saw some good and some bad.

After 'retiring' from wrestling, I moved on to coaching my son and daughter in baseball and softball. Once again, I've seen it all. I've made the 'you need glasses' comment a time or two. I've been ejected from a game and subsequently suspended (that from a 10 y/o softball league, UGH). This past year my 14u baseball team played nearly 90 games and I was truly happy with the umpiring in about 30% of them. We probably lost 2 games to bad calls going against us and won 2 games for bad calls going for us, a wash.

I get it, bad calls suck. These people are human and never get 100% of the calls right. Wrestling has more subjective calls than a lot of sports. I'd suspect that the baseball strike zone is the hardest, but wrestling is tough.

Bottom line for me, at nearly 46 years old and having sat through countless hours of sports is that it just isn't worth it. I tell my ball players to forget the umps, it isn't easy but what else can you do.

The comment by the official regarding becoming a ref... yeah it's a little strange. I see signs all the time at ball fields that say 'Don't like what you see?... Volunteer. That's easier said than done. Life is full of disappointments, some are controllable and others are out of your hands.

Just go out there and do your job... wrestle, coach, spectate, whatever it is. Tomorrow is another day and with god's grace, you'll live to see it.
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  #19  
Old 02-16-2019
Clarion167 Clarion167 is offline
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Join Date: Feb 2011
Posts: 121
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nate Kessen View Post
You seem to be passionate about the sport, the rules, and their application so maybe you would actually make a great official? You don't know until you try, hence my message to Andre' and this post. I technically don't have the time either with 3 little kids and a very busy professional career, but I love this sport and make the time.

I don't think the criticism bothers any of the officials that are working. Most probably never even see the criticism on these threads themselves. Free speech is a beautiful thing, I would never challenge that.



Don't know who has a cry baby attitude? Most of the guys working were high school and/or college wrestlers (there are many state qualifiers, place winners, and even some state champions among the group you see in Champaign & Bloomington). Many of us coached at one point or another as well! We don't mind being challenged, it comes with the territory. Sure, there are rules at the venues regarding how a coach can and cannot challenge a call, how a fan must behave, etc. And, yes, the goal is to get the call right! That is the #1 point emphasized when we teach at the officials clinics.

It's unfortunate you aren't interested in being an official. THAT is the problem! Many others aren't interested either. Hence the motivation for the thread!

Give me a shout fellas, let's get you signed up!
You had me at hello... sign me up. Always wanted to officiate and I guess it's time I put up or shut up. DM me.
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  #20  
Old 02-16-2019
Red Turban Red Turban is offline
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Join Date: Nov 2013
Posts: 1,736
...

Quote:
Originally Posted by PapaBearSLIM View Post
Just because I either don't want to do or would also suck at your job does not make it ok to suck at your job or make you beyond criticism.
I wholeheartedly agree here. Most of us would suck at each other's jobs, but we have a responsibility to be good at our own.

I did not see any calls, do not referee, and I am also concerned at the dearth of officials in sports.

However, it should not be out of bounds for people to non-confrontationally discuss on a neutral message board.
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