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  #21  
Old 02-12-2019
CoachJD CoachJD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gulach View Post
Can someone post the match? I would be interested in seeing it.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iw0wH6IFQTQ

After watching it over a few times myself I still think the 1 point loss of control was a fair call.

Green did at first express with a shrug to his corner, but did look directly at the ref and said something resulting in the 1st UC.

Looking at the flex again it wasn't just a double arm flex. It appears he is also lunges his head forward making me think it was more of a taunt than a celebration. Don't believe me go ahead do a double arm flex with your head held high. Then do a double arm flex with a forward lean towards the audience.

Does it feel different?

Have to admit I don't know who it was directed to because I am not sure who is sitting in that part of the gym. Would feel different if the flex was at the kids dad who was on the verge of getting kicked out himself.

Don't know either wrestler to be honest just unbaised observation of the incident.

Last edited by CoachJD; 02-12-2019 at 12:30 PM.
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  #22  
Old 02-12-2019
ref99 ref99 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJD View Post
Did anyone even watch the video of end of the match that started this thread?
Do you think the 1 or for loss of control at the end was a fair call?
What do you feel about kids that argue with calls from refs?
How much celebration do you feel wrestlers should be allowed to disay? Flex? Backflip? Riverdance?
From the angle of the video you posted, I am not sure I would have given 1 for loss of control. I just can't see enough to say for sure.

Depends on how the kid says it. "What the F* was that?" I'm going to ding you, but ask almost anything short of that and I'll probably let it go and warn you to stop.

If I think you are doing something to intentionally antagonize the opponent or taunt then we have a problem. If this kid was indeed flexing like that towards the opposing school fans I might have called the UC. Again, hard to say for sure based on the one video of just part of the match.
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  #23  
Old 02-12-2019
ctdad ctdad is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Moline, IL
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mencoe View Post
Well, at least we have posts to read. LOL

I'm interested in what you and TIOT have to say about the "losing on purpose" thread. A lot of everyday posters seem to be avoiding the topic.
I think concept of losing on purpose is stupid, because you don’t know how it will play out. It would be interesting to know how often it actually works (though there really is no way to actually prove it).
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  #24  
Old 02-12-2019
Mainefan Mainefan is offline
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Location: Des Plaines
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gulach View Post

Could this kid be a 4x state champ in Illinois? Tell Daddy to come back home and wrestle with the big dogs! I personally think Wisconsin is not very strong in general.

Headlock!
He was at Dvorak. Took 6th at 120
Lost to Rehan Uribe 10-2
Lost to Nain Vasquez 15-4
While these two are studs and top 10 Illinois wrestlers, by those scores we can see that 1 state championship would be a stretch.
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  #25  
Old 02-12-2019
TakeDownTwo TakeDownTwo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJD View Post
Did anyone even watch the video of end of the match that started this thread?
Do you think the 1 or for loss of control at the end was a fair call?
What do you feel about kids that argue with calls from refs?
How much celebration do you feel wrestlers should be allowed to disay? Flex? Backflip? Riverdance?
I think the 1 pt for loss of control was a reach. But, it didn't make a difference in who won or team score so the fans/wrestler should have just let it go.

It's a bad idea for wrestlers to argue with the refs. That's what the coaches are for.

I'm not a fan of flexing, back-flipping or river dancing after a win. It can easily be seen as taunting your opponent. Why take the chance?

Regarding this incident, he didn't just flex. He added a grunt noise toward (I assume) the opposing fans. Totally ridiculous.

With that said, do you make your wrestlers aware of these types of incidents? Do you make them aware of the risks of arguing with refs and/or overzealous celebrating?
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  #26  
Old 02-12-2019
CoachJD CoachJD is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeDownTwo View Post
With that said, do you make your wrestlers aware of these types of incidents? Do you make them aware of the risks of arguing with refs and/or overzealous celebrating?
At the beginning of the season I have a conversation with the team regarding being a "Champion". And how a Champion acts on and off the mat.
Champions show respect for their; teammates, coaches, officials, opponents, teachers, parents. Whether they win or lose they show respect. I ask them how they think a Champion reacts in certain situations. How they act when they win how they act when they lose (yes in Wrestling Champions sit experience losses). How do think treat their parents. How they must accept the calls that refs make regardless whether they agree with them.
Some of my Wrestlers are 1st year Wrestlers some started when they were 5 and are now 14.
I feel focusing on becoming Champions and acting accordingly and training accordingly will serve them better than winning any particular Title. But could lead them to acheiving such a feat.

Of course their will still be occurances where emotion will overcome them and the will fall short of acting like a Champion. Those incidents are dealt with and often result in a short discussion with the team refreshing in their minds what is desirable sportsmanship and what won't be tolerated on the team.
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  #27  
Old 02-12-2019
Mainefan Mainefan is offline
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Champions

Quote:
Originally Posted by CoachJD View Post
At the beginning of the season I have a conversation with the team regarding being a "Champion". And how a Champion acts on and off the mat.
Champions show respect for their; teammates, coaches, officials, opponents, teachers, parents. Whether they win or lose they show respect. I ask them how they think a Champion reacts in certain situations. How they act when they win how they act when they lose (yes in Wrestling Champions sit experience losses). How do think treat their parents. How they must accept the calls that refs make regardless whether they agree with them.
Some of my Wrestlers are 1st year Wrestlers some started when they were 5 and are now 14.
I feel focusing on becoming Champions and acting accordingly and training accordingly will serve them better than winning any particular Title. But could lead them to acheiving such a feat.

Of course their will still be occurances where emotion will overcome them and the will fall short of acting like a Champion. Those incidents are dealt with and often result in a short discussion with the team refreshing in their minds what is desirable sportsmanship and what won't be tolerated on the team.
These lessons are so important. You see yourself as more than a wrestling coach but through wrestling you are giving your students a way to be champions in life.
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  #28  
Old 02-12-2019
Truth is Out There's Avatar
Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mainefan View Post
These lessons are so important. You see yourself as more than a wrestling coach but through wrestling you are giving your students a way to be champions in life.
A pleasure to have made your acquaintance on Saturday.

Thanks for taking the time to allow me to sit with you and your lovely wife.
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  #29  
Old 02-12-2019
Mainefan Mainefan is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is Out There View Post
A pleasure to have made your acquaintance on Saturday.

Thanks for taking the time to allow me to sit with you and your lovely wife.
Same here. Will probably see you in Champaign and then at team state.
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  #30  
Old 02-12-2019
dacohenz dacohenz is offline
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I officiated for 20 years, in the video loss of control is highly debatable but the head official had a good view. Why say anything with the lead he had, it was a decision either way. Obviously dont know what Hayden said, but for me it would have to be clear and an insult to my officiating to warrant a point. His flex was no different than what I saw during the season, knowing that he already took 1 point away, it wasn't enough to cause Hayden to miss his next meet.

I had a situation when officiating a CSL JV conference tournament the week before regionals. During a Maine East match, the Maine East kid got a cradle for a 3 count for which he was awarded 2 points. He lost 7-4. Emiliano started yelling at me that it was a 3 point near fall. I calmly walked over to him and said, is missing regionals really worth arguing for a 2 point jv loss instead of 3? He agreed, shook my hand and that was it.
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