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  #11  
Old 08-06-2019
MAL MAL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpioneer View Post
Here’s another state fact for you. If you are back on child support and all that Illinois chasing you around, just move to Texas. They cannot garnish wages in anyway shape or form. They can also not seize his property that is used to make money. So if I do construction or I am in a band, they can’t touch my tools or instruments!

The framers put provisions for states for good reason. Hunting varies from state to state. I don’t think I will be using my saltwater fishing license anytime soon in Illinois . Chains on tires are completely legal in Utah with good reason. When Gun owners resist federal registration, license, background checks, it makes me think they have something to hide. So Mack, my dear friend, and in my opinion, a lawful and safe going on or, what say you? You ready to put your name and all your credentials and a federal database? I never met the family stuff to be personal. But it is true.
How is Mack putting his name on a national Data base going to make anybody safer? Why are you focusing on punishing the good guy with a gun? Both of these last two shootings were stopped by a good guy with a gun, but you don't seem to care if the bad guys have guns.

The entire purpose of the second amendment was to protect us from the federal government...there was absolutely no mention of hunting. If you give the Federal government a list of gun owners...that list will be abused in any way possible. Remember the IRS targeting the Tea Party. Do you realize the governments of the world are responsible for all of the worst mass shootings...all of these shootings that spark this gun debate over and over would not even make the list of worst mass shootings...not including war...and you want to trust them with a list of gun owners.
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  #12  
Old 08-06-2019
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Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MAL View Post
He did not say ban video games and you know it. I have read stories about how the military uses violent video games to desensitize the troops so that they are more comfortable killing people.

I think it is important to discuss what societal changes have caused the increase in mass shootings We did not have video games with rape and murder in them when we were kids...but they do now.

Mass shootings are in bold because the last time I checked violent crime went down at the same time that gun ownership went up.
I did not say he said ban video games, he named them as a contributing issue. Video games are all over the world & more popular in Asia than here, this issue is mainly unique to the US in frequency. (The most violent video game of all - Mortal Combat - developed at our U of I notably.) The Statisticians say the one unique variable about the US and this issue is the sheer number of guns (plus type I assume) compared to other countries. The sensible thing to do is look at countries that have hunting etc and less shooting. But this is the US, we do our own thing. I do not see this being resolved, mass shootings will likely increase, it will continue as a price of freedom. You aren't going to "fix or control" the people, that is ridiculous. As they say in the jungle, eat what the monkeys eat. We know what works elsewhere - its not going to happen here, might as well move on to climate change - that will be easier.

The last Illinois mass shooting case was more disturbing, an ex-con applied for a concealed carry license for his guns. So the police knew an ex-con prohibited from owning guns had them. They do not go get them, that is what they said. Part of owning a gun should be going in large groups with guns with the police to go get these guns from those that the police say are too dangerous to go get. Or just get them by surprise. I never heard the reason, but it is likely a common issue.

I think it is a bad idea to say if you own guns or not, just like it is a bad idea to post vacation photos while on vacation.
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Last edited by Blonjuan44; 08-06-2019 at 04:48 PM.
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  #13  
Old 08-06-2019
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mckbln mckbln is offline
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Colion Noir with an excellent take on gun deaths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8c2wKISv0o

Oh and my Social Security number goes on both the FOID and CCL license applications.

Here is the ATF Form 4473, REQUIRED for firearm purchases. Even if I purchase a firearm online, I have to fill out the paperwork and have it delivered to an FFL dealer.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-for...cord-revisions


Mack
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Last edited by mckbln; 08-06-2019 at 03:12 PM.
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  #14  
Old 08-06-2019
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Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mckbln View Post
Colion Noir with an excellent take on gun deaths:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8c2wKISv0o

Oh and my Social Security number goes on both the FOID and CCL license applications.

Here is the ATF Form 4473, REQUIRED for firearm purchases. Even if I purchase a firearm online, I have to fill out the paperwork and have it delivered to an FFL dealer.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/atf-for...cord-revisions


Mack
I don't think anybody cares, but SSN is optional - it is stated right there on Question 8 that it is optional on sheet you attached. But who cares? it is also up to who is selling it because some computer programs don't allow blank fields. How paranoid would somebody have to be not to provide their SSN, but the gun lobby has kept it optional. Most of the guns in these mass shootings are legal anyway. And most guns on the south side of Chicago come from Indiana. Shootings of all types are simply part of the American culture now, not great for tourism - although the odds are incredibly slim.
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  #15  
Old 08-07-2019
MAL MAL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blonjuan44 View Post
I did not say he said ban video games, he named them as a contributing issue. Video games are all over the world & more popular in Asia than here, this issue is mainly unique to the US in frequency. (The most violent video game of all - Mortal Combat - developed at our U of I notably.) The Statisticians say the one unique variable about the US and this issue is the sheer number of guns (plus type I assume) compared to other countries. The sensible thing to do is look at countries that have hunting etc and less shooting. But this is the US, we do our own thing. I do not see this being resolved, mass shootings will likely increase, it will continue as a price of freedom. You aren't going to "fix or control" the people, that is ridiculous. As they say in the jungle, eat what the monkeys eat. We know what works elsewhere - its not going to happen here, might as well move on to climate change - that will be easier.

The last Illinois mass shooting case was more disturbing, an ex-con applied for a concealed carry license for his guns. So the police knew an ex-con prohibited from owning guns had them. They do not go get them, that is what they said. Part of owning a gun should be going in large groups with guns with the police to go get these guns from those that the police say are too dangerous to go get. Or just get them by surprise. I never heard the reason, but it is likely a common issue.

I think it is a bad idea to say if you own guns or not, just like it is a bad idea to post vacation photos while on vacation.

The stats that you have been quoting are bogus and misleading. There have not been 249 mass shootings this year. It is not even close to that, its probably under 10. They changed the definition of mass shootings to get 249. Mass shootings are 4 dead or more, not counting the shooter. They played all kinds of tricks with the numbers. They counted shooting where nobody died...they included the shooter in the death toll...they added gang violence. Even politiFact doesn't wholeheartedly support that claim.


Nobody is proud of our death toll, but we are not even close to having the most gun violence in any category...maybe with the exception of Gun suicide.

This is from 2015 but it still has some relevance

https://fee.org/articles/the-myth-th...***-shootings/


https://wjla.com/news/nation-world/m...ther-countries


https://nypost.com/2018/08/30/americ...***-shootings/
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  #16  
Old 08-07-2019
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Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
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Trump has proven facts and science do not matter in this, I am still waiting for him to post his hundreds of pictures of Comey and Mueller kissing that he claimed to have. So typically weird nobody cares, you called it Trumpism.

Slice the data any way you like, 11 big ones, 130 medium ones, 249 total ones...but grouping year is fairly random regardless - it is the trend that matters...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o..._United_States

The arrow is going up, the weirdos that do this study the previous ones. Everyone know there will be a huge count one in the future. Talk is cheap, it comes down to money. When Our town buys more of the senate than the NRA, that is when things will change for the better or worse - depending on your opinion. I am ok with letting market forces decide this one, the pace of change has been surprisingly slow. The NRA has a lot of in-fighting as well, it will be interesting to see what happens with that. This is simply a case of put up or shut up. It was interesting to see how fast people skipped over the "praying" talk to isn't this kind of dumb we let this happen here talk, might be due to the fact that people are less religious than they used to be as well.

https://membership.nra.org/FAQ
or
https://everytown.org/
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Last edited by Blonjuan44; 08-07-2019 at 09:52 AM.
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  #17  
Old 08-07-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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Look, we can never stop every act of violence. I said my piece about the words that come out of the presidents mouth and fingers. When hard-core gone owners hear about databases and background checks they immediately turn to thinking their house is going to be invaded by the ATF like in Waco Texas . I do like the fact that there are many law-abiding gun owners what I am trying to do is simply deter people from getting high powered guns and being able to sell them for profit.
It is common knowledge that you can buy anything you want in Indiana just like fireworks and bring them right across the border. But many of the people that do this would definitely think twice if they think that going to be traced back to them. Also, these mass shooters tend to have checkered pasts. I would like to think they canít just simply get down in the keyboard and laid out a credit card and get whatever they want. Call me crazy.

I know I keep using the fishing license example but the reason is is I welcome a game warden to board my boat whenever he wants. And I have had people argue with me about keeping the fish thatís not legal and I simply tell them look if you donít like it I will drop you off right on the shore. Or they asked me what they should bring, I said absolutely nothing except stop at a sporting good store and get a $15 license. Do you know I have good friends that have come to the lake and I am providing everything from food during gas and lodging and I donít have the damn license. And they tell me not to worry. And I tell him I got news for you partner, it is going to be me that feels it not you! It is a private lake, and even if it wasnít the game warden could tell me to send my boat right to that ramp or itís gonna be pulled out. So what I do is walk them into The marina and embarrassed the living hell out of him and say my friend youíre short on money I want to buy him his license! And then they tried to give me the $15 and I told him no you keep it. Strict laws just like strict schools actually give more freedom.
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  #18  
Old 08-07-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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And taking the deer in Indiana with an Illinois license will get you a set of handcuffs for free!
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  #19  
Old 08-07-2019
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mooseknuckle mooseknuckle is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by oldpioneer View Post
Look, we can never stop every act of violence.
That's a great starting point. It trumps (pun intended) any reason to curtail someone's ability to defend themselves as they see fit.

End of discussion on gun control.
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  #20  
Old 08-07-2019
oldpioneer oldpioneer is offline
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Nothing is over! It has only begun. Trump is going to have to make a decision between following to the NRA and losing the election. But don’t worry, he will do whatever it takes to win so he can avoid those charges as a civilian!
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