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  #1  
Old 03-09-2017
coachm coachm is offline
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ways to improve wrestling in Illinois

Illinois Wrestling Community:

I have been a part of the Illinois Wrestling Community for over thirty year and have watched it grow into one of the premiere wrestling states in the country. However, like any successful organization, we have areas to improve upon.

As we know, in 2009 the IHSA expanded wrestling from two classes to three. Although this has not always been the most popular decision within wrestling faithful, I believe it was the right choice. Over two dozen schools have added wrestling teams in that time period, and that fact alone makes it good for the sport. However, me must look at how the system is working.

Areas of analysis.


1. Can we add full wrestle backs at the state tournament?
- Now that the State Farm Center has finished its construction project, the question arises if we can add more mats to the competition floor?
- Adding a full consolation round on the Friday of the state tournament would add 168 matches. Currently there are 420 matches on the second day of the state tournament, which is 70 matches per mat. (420/6) Adding true wrestle backs would 28 matches per mat if we stay with the six mat format. (588/6)
- However, if one mat is added on Friday only, the number of additional matches per mat goes down to only 14 (588/7) which is only two hours of wrestling. If we could fit two mats on the second day, that add only three additional matches per mat. (588/8). I would think that everyone would agree, that adding only thirty minutes to the second day of the state tournament is a worthy exchange for offering full wrestle backs at the state tournament.

2. Have we accurately distributed the teams between classes?
- In 2016, 1637 wrestlers competed AA regionals, 1299 in AA, and 1253 in A. That is almost four hundred more kids vying for the same number of state qualifiers. We need to look at how we distribute our teams if 39% of all wrestlers are in AAA, 31% are in AA, and 29% in A, but all three classes have an equal number of state qualifiers.
- In fact, last year there were over 100 wrestles who automatically qualified for AA and A sectional tournaments because three or less wrestlers were entered into their regionals. In addition, almost a dozen byes advanced to the AA and A sectionals because less than three wrestlers were entered into IHSA regionals. One wrestle advanced to a AA sectional with a 0-10 record. This did not happen at a single AAA regional in 2016.
- In 2017, the numbers are very similar. Three hundred and sixteen more wrestlers competed in AAA regionals than A regionals, 47 wrestlers automatically advanced to AA and A sectionals, and four wrestlers advanced to AA or A sectionals with 0-0 records.
- There is a precedence for modifying the distribution of teams between classes. Boys and girls cross country has a similar number of participating teams each year and is divided to three classes by the IHSA. They were experiencing a high number of unfilled sectionals in their lower classes and the IHSA assigned more teams to their smallest class to create a more balanced distribution of teams between the classes. It has been a huge success for their sport.

3- Rotate the starting times between the classes.
- Currently all classes weigh-in at the State Farm Center at 11:30, and A wrestlers start competition at 1:30, AA at 3:30, and AAA at 5:30.
- Class A wrestlers are the only competitors that have the opportunity to use the wrestling mats in the floor to prepare for their matches.
- Coaches in AAA understand that space and time are limited, but this issue can be easily remedied by creating a system that rotates the starting times of each session between the classes so each class can share the burden of coming back to compete and enjoy the opportunity to use the mats to prepare for competition one hour after weigh in like happens at every event throughout the season.

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to the dialogue that ensues.

Sincerely,

Chris McGrath
Head Wrestling Coach
Downers Grove North
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  #2  
Old 03-10-2017
WRFAN99 WRFAN99 is offline
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I posted in different tread that IHSA should cap all 3A regionals at 8 then filter down the rest into 2A and 1A. That would not even out wrestlers but it would help because it would drop 10-15 teams into other classes and 2A and 1A could add 7 to 8 teams.
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  #3  
Old 03-10-2017
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dlb802004 dlb802004 is offline
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There def should be full wrestle backs in the state tournament. Its the only tournament all year that you have to goto that has a follow the leader format. And the solution is extremely simple. You have the first two rounds the first day and then begin the first round of wrestle backs on the second day. It's crazy to come down and weigh in for one match on the first day. This would keep the tournament on the same pace the remainder 2 days.
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  #4  
Old 03-10-2017
gulach gulach is offline
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Well put Coach! As a huge fan I would like to see those positive changes for Illinois wrestling happen.

Go Inside trip someone!
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  #5  
Old 03-10-2017
Fockerized152 Fockerized152 is offline
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I like a lot of these ideas. 1 thing that would have to be added for state is if you fft your first match you are done.
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  #6  
Old 03-11-2017
Cole's Opionion Cole's Opionion is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by coachm View Post
Illinois Wrestling Community:

I have been a part of the Illinois Wrestling Community for over thirty year and have watched it grow into one of the premiere wrestling states in the country. However, like any successful organization, we have areas to improve upon.

As we know, in 2009 the IHSA expanded wrestling from two classes to three. Although this has not always been the most popular decision within wrestling faithful, I believe it was the right choice. Over two dozen schools have added wrestling teams in that time period, and that fact alone makes it good for the sport. However, me must look at how the system is working.

Areasof analysis

1. Can we add full wrestle backs at the state tournament?
- Now that the State Farm Center has finished its construction project, the question arises if we can add more mats to the competition floor?
- Adding a full consolation round on the Friday of the state tournament would add 168 matches. Currently there are 420 matches on the second day of the state tournament, which is 70 matches per mat. (420/6) Adding true wrestle backs would 28 matches per mat if we stay with the six mat format. (588/6)
- However, if one mat is added on Friday only, the number of additional matches per mat goes down to only 14 (588/7) which is only two hours of wrestling. If we could fit two mats on the second day, that add only three additional matches per mat. (588/8). I would think that everyone would agree, that adding only thirty minutes to the second day of the state tournament is a worthy exchange for offering full wrestle backs at the state tournament.

2. Have we accurately distributed the teams between classes?
- In 2016, 1637 wrestlers competed AA regionals, 1299 in AA, and 1253 in A. That is almost four hundred more kids vying for the same number of state qualifiers. We need to look at how we distribute our teams if 39% of all wrestlers are in AAA, 31% are in AA, and 29% in A, but all three classes have an equal number of state qualifiers.
- In fact, last year there were over 100 wrestles who automatically qualified for AA and A sectional tournaments because three or less wrestlers were entered into their regionals. In addition, almost a dozen byes advanced to the AA and A sectionals because less than three wrestlers were entered into IHSA regionals. One wrestle advanced to a AA sectional with a 0-10 record. This did not happen at a single AAA regional in 2016.
- In 2017, the numbers are very similar. Three hundred and sixteen more wrestlers competed in AAA regionals than A regionals, 47 wrestlers automatically advanced to AA and A sectionals, and four wrestlers advanced to AA or A sectionals with 0-0 records.
- There is a precedence for modifying the distribution of teams between classes. Boys and girls cross country has a similar number of participating teams each year and is divided to three classes by the IHSA. They were experiencing a high number of unfilled sectionals in their lower classes and the IHSA assigned more teams to their smallest class to create a more balanced distribution of teams between the classes. It has been a huge success for their sport.

3- Rotate the starting times between the classes.
- Currently all classes weigh-in at the State Farm Center at 11:30, and A wrestlers start competition at 1:30, AA at 3:30, and AAA at 5:30.
- Class A wrestlers are the only competitors that have the opportunity to use the wrestling mats in the floor to prepare for their matches.
- Coaches in AAA understand that space and time are limited, but this issue can be easily remedied by creating a system that rotates the starting times of each session between the classes so each class can share the burden of coming back to compete and enjoy the opportunity to use the mats to prepare for competition one hour after weigh in like happens at every event throughout the season.

Thanks for your time, and I look forward to the dialogue that ensues.

Sincerely,

Chris McGrath
Head Wrestling Coach
Downers Grove North

Full wrestlebacks are a must- If they are not doing it because time constraints ? It's crazy. This tournament should not be rushed for it is the most important to so many. We are not getting the very best wrestlers and results. Every year we get guys on the podium that actually hacks that got a good draw. Example in the 3A 145 pound bracket this year. Juan Bazadula has a 1st round really close match with Yiayia's Thomas and loses.. Yiayia's than loses to Markus Hartman who ends up taking 2nd. Bazadula is then out of the tournament and that is criminal. This tournament can be a make or break for some kids and the committee needs to realize this also can be money and opportunity for These young men to go to college. The 138 pound bracket has a kid place that probably doesn't even belong there.
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  #7  
Old 03-11-2017
Greenskin Greenskin is offline
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Hate me if you must

I understand the obsession with full wrestlebacks but I don't agree with it, and here's why:

For some reason people in this sport think they need to have definative answers as to the pecking order at each weight. Why? We all know that if we wrestled a second state tournament a week or two from now the results would look somewhat different at almost every weight. What we have is a snapshot of what happened in this year's state tournament at that particular time and place...nothing more and nothing less. The burning desire to know the answers provided by full wrestlebacks clearly resides with those who lost, not those who won. Nobody fills the gym to watch the consolations, certainly not the winners and not the fans. They are only necessary for those who lost. With the dual team format now in use to determine state championships there isn't even a need for team points in the individual series.

The tournament was intended to determine the state champion, which it does very well. It was not set up or intended to find out, in correct order, the best 8 wrestlers in the state. It can't because it changes from week to week.

Furthermore, I could never support full wrestlebacks as I am a proponent of "walkovers" and not "do overs". I've stated this before, but I'll say it again....Nobody should have to wrestle the same guy twice in a tournament!! Sports is about work, talent, drama, preparation and rising to the occasion. Upsets are part of the drama and excitement of the sport. Bring your "A" game to every match or go home wait till the next tournament and THEN get your revenge.Eliminating walkovers only rewards the loser, never the winner. Wrestling and life is a little like poker, the winners tell jokes and the losers say "deal". I don't like poker tournaments where you can buy back in, either.

I could go on and on but I'm sure I will have to defend my position, so I'll stop here. Coach, I understand and appreciate your passion for this, but I don't agree with it and I don't think it's necessary. Thanks for your love, dedication, passion and contribution to the sport
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  #8  
Old 03-11-2017
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Nelson*0.5 Nelson*0.5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenskin View Post
The tournament was intended to determine the state champion, which it does very well. It was not set up or intended to find out, in correct order, the best 8 wrestlers in the state.
Regardless of what IHSA administrators say, that's a crock. That is nothing more than a talking point to justify a stubbornness and unwillingness to change. If what you are asserting was remotely the case, there would be no need for place matches, podiums with different numbers on them and 6 different medals. If what you are saying were accurate, they should just stop after the semifinals and go straight to the championship matches. But they don't do that because they at least have the intention of determining not only who is best and second best, but also 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th best. And, as long as that is the intention, there is always a valid argument to take any measure that will make those awards/designations more accurate. Your argument is one to diminish the integrity of those awards
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  #9  
Old 03-11-2017
petersenkid2 petersenkid2 is offline
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I also prefer walk-overs to do-overs.
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  #10  
Old 03-11-2017
Low dribble Low dribble is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nelson*0.5 View Post
Regardless of what IHSA administrators say, that's a crock. That is nothing more than a talking point to justify a stubbornness and unwillingness to change. If what you are asserting was remotely the case, there would be no need for place matches, podiums with different numbers on them and 6 different medals. If what you are saying were accurate, they should just stop after the semifinals and go straight to the championship matches. But they don't do that because they at least have the intention of determining not only who is best and second best, but also 3rd, 4th, 5th and 6th best. And, as long as that is the intention, there is always a valid argument to take any measure that will make those awards/designations more accurate. Your argument is one to diminish the integrity of those awards
Sounds to me you are in favor of EVERY match being the best two out of three?! Because, seriously how can you have a "more accurate" determination of 3-6 if some of the wrestlers are 1-1 against each other IN THE SAME TOURNAMENT?

I agree completly with Greenskins post, and I think Eminem said it best:
"Look If you had One shot
Or one opportunity
To seize everything you ever wanted
In one moment
Would you capture it
Or just let it slip?"
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