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  #1  
Old 07-25-2019
pcc club coach pcc club coach is offline
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Illinois wrestling on flo ??

Flo blames our excellence at Fargo as our detriment in folkstyle results in college. A few reasons they discussed if you missed the broadcast

Do we place to much emphasis on the international styles ?

Are we starting our athletes too young in the international styles ?

Is our folk style coaching not as good ?

Are we that far behind state wise at mat wrestling ?

Just wanting to get some wrestling talk going. Any other thoughts on this topic ? Feel free to share or interject comments. No trolls please. Letís try to keep it civil and above board.
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  #2  
Old 07-25-2019
ElSanto ElSanto is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcc club coach View Post
Flo blames our excellence at Fargo as our detriment in folkstyle results in college. A few reasons they discussed if you missed the broadcast

Do we place to much emphasis on the international styles ?

Are we starting our athletes too young in the international styles ?

Is our folk style coaching not as good ?

Are we that far behind state wise at mat wrestling ?

Just wanting to get some wrestling talk going. Any other thoughts on this topic ? Feel free to share or interject comments. No trolls please. Letís try to keep it civil and above board.
Interesting discussion for sure. I think it is too much of an emphasis on freestyle and Greco earlier that it hurts our mat wrestling. Also, our freestyle and Greco coaching is outstanding but other states seem to catch up easily by college and we donít have the world team members than maybe we expected when they were winning Fargo. I like freestyle and Greco but maybe losing the 4 months after the season ends in March is a detriment to IL NCAA success.

Very interesting take on the organization of the state at the youth levels. You would think IL was *** backwards when you read some of the angry ikwf posts.

Willy the flo guy comes off as a lunatic btw. Couldnít tell if he agreed with the other two or not. By the end everyone seemed to agree yet he was still ranting and raving.
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  #3  
Old 07-25-2019
Red Turban Red Turban is offline
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They are ha-ting.
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  #4  
Old 07-25-2019
Junior Junior is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pcc club coach View Post
Flo blames our excellence at Fargo as our detriment in folkstyle results in college. A few reasons they discussed if you missed the broadcast

Do we place to much emphasis on the international styles ?

Are we starting our athletes too young in the international styles ?

Is our folk style coaching not as good ?

Are we that far behind state wise at mat wrestling ?

Just wanting to get some wrestling talk going. Any other thoughts on this topic ? Feel free to share or interject comments. No trolls please. Letís try to keep it civil and above board.

All of the above. Also, other sports are drawing from the pool of athletes. Itís possible other states have the same issue. Look for Illinois wrestlers to make some noise at the college level in the next few years but then it could revert back to the lean years.

How many wrestlers could or want to continue after their college career is over? Yet we hammer home international styles when half the wrestlers would be served much better by improving their folkstyle skills.
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  #5  
Old 07-25-2019
goodwrestling goodwrestling is offline
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Originally Posted by Junior View Post
All of the above. Also, other sports are drawing from the pool of athletes. Itís possible other states have the same issue. Look for Illinois wrestlers to make some noise at the college level in the next few years but then it could revert back to the lean years.

How many wrestlers could or want to continue after their college career is over? Yet we hammer home international styles when half the wrestlers would be served much better by improving their folkstyle skills.

Why would they be better served improving at folkstyle? If your kid's goal is just to earn a college scholarship and move on to other things then go for it, but you can't reach the pinnacle in this sport without knowing how to wrestle the international styles.

Flo brought this up after Fargo last year too. They had more of a leg to stand on because Illinois had a really down year and only had one NCAA AA. This year however Illinois had the 3rd most AA's of any state which makes their argument hard to take seriously.

https://www.flowrestling.org/article...by-the-numbers

If your argument is that there isn't enough NCAA champs from Illinois I would say that there's so few NCAA champs that it goes beyond just what you learn in the offseason and comes down to extremely rare talent.

There are very few wrestlers from any state that make a world team but if you look at the Greco side I think Illinois does pretty well for itself. When you looked at where the national team members (top 3 per weight) come from in 2019 Illinois again does well with 9. That's only second to California who have 15 this year.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestlin...Team-breakdown

Again it really depends on each individual's goals. Personally, I would prefer to know how to wrestle the international styles and potentially make a career from wrestling for awhile after college. The best jobs you can get from being good at folkstyle are coaching gigs which may pay more and last longer but you're done competing. Plus just because you wrestled the international style doesn't necessarily mean you can't get a coaching job when you're done competing. Not knowing how to wrestle Greco/Freestyle makes it much harder to pick up after a collegiate career is complete.

I believe the reason Illinois hasn't had a NCAA champ or freestyle senior world team member in a few years isn't due to focus its due to not having a generational talent find a way to break through yet.
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  #6  
Old 07-26-2019
Red Turban Red Turban is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goodwrestling View Post
Why would they be better served improving at folkstyle? If your kid's goal is just to earn a college scholarship and move on to other things then go for it, but you can't reach the pinnacle in this sport without knowing how to wrestle the international styles.

Flo brought this up after Fargo last year too. They had more of a leg to stand on because Illinois had a really down year and only had one NCAA AA. This year however Illinois had the 3rd most AA's of any state which makes their argument hard to take seriously.

https://www.flowrestling.org/article...by-the-numbers

If your argument is that there isn't enough NCAA champs from Illinois I would say that there's so few NCAA champs that it goes beyond just what you learn in the offseason and comes down to extremely rare talent.

There are very few wrestlers from any state that make a world team but if you look at the Greco side I think Illinois does pretty well for itself. When you looked at where the national team members (top 3 per weight) come from in 2019 Illinois again does well with 9. That's only second to California who have 15 this year.

https://www.teamusa.org/USA-Wrestlin...Team-breakdown

Again it really depends on each individual's goals. Personally, I would prefer to know how to wrestle the international styles and potentially make a career from wrestling for awhile after college. The best jobs you can get from being good at folkstyle are coaching gigs which may pay more and last longer but you're done competing. Plus just because you wrestled the international style doesn't necessarily mean you can't get a coaching job when you're done competing. Not knowing how to wrestle Greco/Freestyle makes it much harder to pick up after a collegiate career is complete.

I believe the reason Illinois hasn't had a NCAA champ or freestyle senior world team member in a few years isn't due to focus its due to not having a generational talent find a way to break through yet.
I'm so glad you took the time to say everything I was already thinking.
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  #7  
Old 07-26-2019
Junior Junior is offline
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You lost me at scholarship.
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  #8  
Old 07-26-2019
dadudaman4 dadudaman4 is offline
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Originally Posted by Red Turban View Post
I'm so glad you took the time to say everything I was already thinking.
It happens that most of the recent "generational talent" has come from the Northeast (Pa. and NJ in particular) section of the country and will be around for a bit longer. Perhaps 1 or 2 guys from the State of Illinois will rise to the occasion this coming year.
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  #9  
Old 07-27-2019
miketamillow miketamillow is offline
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High school wrestling results are NOT a good indicator of how people will do in college. From my recollection, it is really more like child-beating than a sport.

Suddenly in college everybody is pretty decent (not good, just decent), and you have to live with the fact that you might have to work really hard just to get and stay on top.
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  #10  
Old 07-27-2019
ol' man river ol' man river is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketamillow View Post
High school wrestling results are NOT a good indicator of how people will do in college. From my recollection, it is really more like child-beating than a sport.

Suddenly in college everybody is pretty decent (not good, just decent), and you have to live with the fact that you might have to work really hard just to get and stay on top.
Mike, for those who may not know...remind us of your journey.
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