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  #21  
Old 03-12-2019
Smotez Smotez is offline
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NCAA qualifiers

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Originally Posted by ModestMouse View Post
I hate to be this guy but this is extremely disappointing in seeing these schools results. NIU and SIUE having zero qualifiers from Illinois.

NIU had from what I could tell only 1, thats right 1 Starter from the state of Illinois at the MAC Tournament. That is absolutely PATHETIC!

SIUE, is the the Jeremy Spates run over here? He has been there 6 years now, and I havent seen much growth.

Im sorry these two schools should be landing way more top Illinois guys. Programs like Old Dominion are KILLING THEM in recruiting. It is only going to get harder as the MAC added 7 schools for next year too!


U of I and Northwestern also need to step it up. Both have some guys in the pipeline though, so we shall see what they got in the next year or 2.



I think your criticism of SIU and NIU is over the top when use use the word PATHETIC. I would like to see more Illinois wrestlers on the NIU roster but at the moment they have better wrestlers from out of state. Hopefully that will change in the upcoming years. I have been following NIU for about 20 years now and we have had many starters from Illinois including NCAA qualifiers. There have been a lot of complaints over the last few years about the U of I not getting many of the top Illinois recruits. If they are having a tough time, it is not surprising that NIU and SIU have a similar problem. NIU's 125 Bryce West (RsFr) is from Iowa. He qualified by taking 3rd at the MAC. He Pinned Aikens and beat Punke at the MAC. Earlier in the season he lost by 1 point to Pio and split with Oliver. There was nobody available to NIU from IL that was better. You take the best you can, no matter what state they are from. I am glad that he and his twin brother Drew are at NIU as well as the other out of state recruits.

I do agree that ODU has been recruiting a lot of high quality IL wrestlers, especially the last few years. Some IL wrestlers have had good success there in the pass and I am sure that makes it easier to recruit more. I think their assistant coach Thomas is doing a great job for them. He wrestled for UI and was a volunteer coach at NIU for 2 years. He is a great guy and has good connections in IL high school wrestling.



SIU is pretty new to D1 wrestling and appears to be building their program. Like NIU, they have a good number of talented young wrestlers that should do well for them with some more experience.



As you can tell I am big NIU fan, but I also root for all the IL universities to do well. Good luck to all the IL wrestlers at the NCAA.
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  #22  
Old 03-12-2019
dadudaman4 dadudaman4 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jay31 View Post
Gunther and Barone received at large (also caffey).
Well, it's rare that you get a chance to redeem yourself. Let's see how these 2 guys show up at NCAAs. There should be no pressure at all at this point.
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  #23  
Old 03-12-2019
goodwrestling goodwrestling is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smotez View Post
I think your criticism of SIU and NIU is over the top when use use the word PATHETIC. I would like to see more Illinois wrestlers on the NIU roster but at the moment they have better wrestlers from out of state. Hopefully that will change in the upcoming years. I have been following NIU for about 20 years now and we have had many starters from Illinois including NCAA qualifiers. There have been a lot of complaints over the last few years about the U of I not getting many of the top Illinois recruits. If they are having a tough time, it is not surprising that NIU and SIU have a similar problem. NIU's 125 Bryce West (RsFr) is from Iowa. He qualified by taking 3rd at the MAC. He Pinned Aikens and beat Punke at the MAC. Earlier in the season he lost by 1 point to Pio and split with Oliver. There was nobody available to NIU from IL that was better. You take the best you can, no matter what state they are from. I am glad that he and his twin brother Drew are at NIU as well as the other out of state recruits.

I do agree that ODU has been recruiting a lot of high quality IL wrestlers, especially the last few years. Some IL wrestlers have had good success there in the pass and I am sure that makes it easier to recruit more. I think their assistant coach Thomas is doing a great job for them. He wrestled for UI and was a volunteer coach at NIU for 2 years. He is a great guy and has good connections in IL high school wrestling.



SIU is pretty new to D1 wrestling and appears to be building their program. Like NIU, they have a good number of talented young wrestlers that should do well for them with some more experience.



As you can tell I am big NIU fan, but I also root for all the IL universities to do well. Good luck to all the IL wrestlers at the NCAA.

Pretty sure it started before Daryl Thomas got there with Mike Dixon. Dixon has Illinois connections and helped bring in Kyle Hutter (Providence). Hutter had a successful career there and also was a ODU coach from 2011 to 2017. Dixon is now back at Indiana which is starting to have a resurgence from the gutter and Hutter has moved on.

Steven Rodriguez is another U of I wrestler who is coaching at ODU.

I think that Jeremy Spates is a pretty good coach but recruiting to SIUE would be an uphill battle. It doesn't have the best reputation for academics and there's not a whole lot out there.

Last edited by goodwrestling; 03-12-2019 at 09:50 PM.
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  #24  
Old 03-12-2019
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PapaBearSLIM PapaBearSLIM is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mark Weber View Post
Well let me mix the deordorant and headgear for you slim shadey.

All these kids daddy coaches who believe that their kid is a D1 Big 10 wrestler at 10 years old and continually cut their kids down and keep cutting them year in and year out.

Then go to HS and and do the whole Fargo thing and keep cutting weight to be competitive.

I was merely pointing out that success can be seen at the heavier weights and this is supported by this data.
That's not how that works.

There are going to be 33 qualifiers at each weight regardless of where they are from. Several of them being from IL at 197 is evidence to support your point as much as any kids from a state without upper weight qualifiers using that as evidence that there isn't success in the upper weights.

Plenty of top level upper weights at all levels are cutting weight and have been for years.

How much the qualifiers from any particular state weigh cannot be an indictment or endorsement of cutting weight. I can't and won't try to explain it beyond that and either you can see the light or we can agree to disagree.
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  #25  
Old 03-15-2019
Joel Karr Joel Karr is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ModestMouse View Post
I hate to be this guy but this is extremely disappointing in seeing these schools results. NIU and SIUE having zero qualifiers from Illinois.

NIU had from what I could tell only 1, thats right 1 Starter from the state of Illinois at the MAC Tournament. That is absolutely PATHETIC!

SIUE, is the the Jeremy Spates run over here? He has been there 6 years now, and I havent seen much growth.

Im sorry these two schools should be landing way more top Illinois guys. Programs like Old Dominion are KILLING THEM in recruiting. It is only going to get harder as the MAC added 7 schools for next year too!


U of I and Northwestern also need to step it up. Both have some guys in the pipeline though, so we shall see what they got in the next year or 2.

I look forward to this time every year when folks in all the major wrestling states lament why they can't keep all the talent in their own state.

NJ had 6 big ten champs, but only 2 for NJ Colleges (Rutgers). If Rutgers could get all the NJ talent, they would have won the big ten!

Old Dominion is a fun one. Michael Martin who is the nephew of ODU head coach was same recruiting class and weight as myself and Cassio Pero. Martin was a 4x state champ from VA and basically wrestling royalty as part of the Martin family. He likely would have AA if he didn't get hurt.

So I guess that means Illini are good enough to recruit the best from VA, but not better than ODU who recruits from Illinois.

The reality is that wrestling on the D1 level is a very small community. Lots of connections all over the place.

Each kid is different and different schools / coaches are a better fit for them.

So lets just support all Illinois high school kids making the best choice for them to get to the top of the podium at whatever school that is.

Take a look at overall most consistent success for the past 20 years. Illini are near the top of the list. And that is a direct result of Coach Heff, Johnson and all the others. We always strive for more, but we have been spoiled without too many really down years.

#GoIllini
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  #26  
Old 03-20-2019
ModestMouse ModestMouse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joel Karr View Post
I look forward to this time every year when folks in all the major wrestling states lament why they can't keep all the talent in their own state.

NJ had 6 big ten champs, but only 2 for NJ Colleges (Rutgers). If Rutgers could get all the NJ talent, they would have won the big ten!

Old Dominion is a fun one. Michael Martin who is the nephew of ODU head coach was same recruiting class and weight as myself and Cassio Pero. Martin was a 4x state champ from VA and basically wrestling royalty as part of the Martin family. He likely would have AA if he didn't get hurt.

So I guess that means Illini are good enough to recruit the best from VA, but not better than ODU who recruits from Illinois.

The reality is that wrestling on the D1 level is a very small community. Lots of connections all over the place.

Each kid is different and different schools / coaches are a better fit for them.

So lets just support all Illinois high school kids making the best choice for them to get to the top of the podium at whatever school that is.

Take a look at overall most consistent success for the past 20 years. Illini are near the top of the list. And that is a direct result of Coach Heff, Johnson and all the others. We always strive for more, but we have been spoiled without too many really down years.

#GoIllini
THEY SHOULD BE NEAR THE TOP OF THAT LIST!!!! ILLINOIS IS ONE OF THE BEST WRESTLING STATES IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! HELLO!!!

What is the excuse for NIU having 1... you heard me 1 starter on their team from this state. Then everyone scratches their heads as to why they cant compete.

Stop making excuses for these schools. They are getting out recruited. SIUE and NIU are letting good talent leave that they can attract. PERIOD.

Northwestern is in a different boat because of the cost of the school. Even a 50% scholarship which is a ton in wrestling, the school will still cost you some 30K a year!

I like Poeta at U of I, and it looks like they got some good classes coming in, a little heavy on the lower weights but still they are snagging some top talent from OUR STATE!!!

End rant...................................
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  #27  
Old 03-20-2019
Truth is Out There's Avatar
Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MslWrestler119 View Post
Conference tournaments are finished and we can now see who actually qualified for the NCAA tournament and who is on the outside looking in hoping for an at large bid.

Automatic NCAA Qualifiers:
Travis Piotrowski-Illinois (125)
Dylan Duncan-Illinois (133)
Emery Parker-Illinois (184)
Elijah Oliver-Indiana (125)
Jacob Warner-Iowa (197)
Austin Gomez-Iowa State (133)
Dack Punke-Missouri (125)
Nic Gil-Navy (141)
Isaiah White-Nebraska (165)
Eric Schultz-Nebraska (197)
Austin O'Connor-North Carolina (149)
Josh Alber-Northern Iowa (141)
Michael McGhee-Old Dominion (125)
Larry Early-Old Dominion (157)
Patrick Brucki-Princeton (197)
Christian Brunner-Purdue (197)
Gabe Townsell-Stanford (125)
Nathan Traxler-Stanford (197)

Looking to receive an at large bid:
Peter Ogunsanya-Army (149)
Kyle Akins-Buffalo (125)
Eric Barone-Illinois (157)
Joey Gunther-Illinois (165)
Cameron Caffey-Michigan State (184)
Shayne Oster-Northwestern (149)
Tim Young-Old Dominion (197)
Louie Hayes-Virginia (133)
Jake Keating-Virginia (157)

I say we end up with 22 NCAA Qualifiers this season with Barone, Gunther, Caffey, and Oster receiving At-Large bids. Still think we end the season with 5 All-Americans in Brucki, Warner, O'Connor, White, and Parker.
Not to imply that your IKWF club is any main determinant in qualifying for the NCAA tournament but...

What IKWF clubs do these kids trace back to? Any club with more than two?
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  #28  
Old 03-20-2019
Nelson*0.5's Avatar
Nelson*0.5 Nelson*0.5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is Out There View Post
Not to imply that your IKWF club is any main determinant in qualifying for the NCAA tournament but...

What IKWF clubs do these kids trace back to? Any club with more than two?
Travis Piotrowski-Illinois (125) – Wolves
Dylan Duncan-Illinois (133) - SCN
Emery Parker-Illinois (184) – Grapplin Devils
Elijah Oliver-Indiana (125) – Harvey Twisters
Jacob Warner-Iowa (197) – Champaign WC
Austin Gomez-Iowa State (133) - Gomez
Dack Punke-Missouri (125) – Central Elite Rebels
Nic Gil-Navy (141) – CL Wizards
Isaiah White-Nebraska (165) - Twisters
Eric Schultz-Nebraska (197) – TP Bulldogs
Austin O'Connor-North Carolina (149) – Gomez/TP Bulldogs
Josh Alber-Northern Iowa (141) - Dakota
Michael McGhee-Old Dominion (125) - Force
Larry Early-Old Dominion (157) - Force
Patrick Brucki-Princeton (197) – Orland Park Pioneers
Christian Brunner-Purdue (197) – Dundee Highlanders
Gabe Townsell-Stanford (125) – Little Huskies / Gladiators
Nathan Traxler-Stanford (197) – SCN Youth
Peter Ogunsanya-Army (149) – Harvey Twisters
Kyle Akins-Buffalo (125) - Sycamore
Eric Barone-Illinois (157) - Wolves
Joey Gunther-Illinois (165) – Libertyville WC/Fox Lake WC
Cameron Caffey-Michigan State (184) - Carbondale
Shayne Oster-Northwestern (149) – Junior Porters
Tim Young-Old Dominion (197) - Tomcats
Louie Hayes-Virginia (133) – Orland Park Pioneers/Romeoville/TP Bulldogs/Martinez Fox Valley Elite/
Jake Keating-Virginia (157) – Naperville WC
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  #29  
Old 03-20-2019
Smotez Smotez is offline
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NIU Wrestling

Quote:
Originally Posted by ModestMouse View Post
THEY SHOULD BE NEAR THE TOP OF THAT LIST!!!! ILLINOIS IS ONE OF THE BEST WRESTLING STATES IN THE ENTIRE COUNTRY! HELLO!!!

What is the excuse for NIU having 1... you heard me 1 starter on their team from this state. Then everyone scratches their heads as to why they cant compete.

Stop making excuses for these schools. They are getting out recruited. SIUE and NIU are letting good talent leave that they can attract. PERIOD.

Northwestern is in a different boat because of the cost of the school. Even a 50% scholarship which is a ton in wrestling, the school will still cost you some 30K a year!

I like Poeta at U of I, and it looks like they got some good classes coming in, a little heavy on the lower weights but still they are snagging some top talent from OUR STATE!!!





End rant...................................

ModestMouse apparently you didn't read or didn't believe the facts/opinions in my response to your first 'rant'. it is easy to be negative, especially with generalizations.
GoodWrestling had an excellent reply to my post, addressing why ODU has done such a good job recruiting Illinois wrestlers. I had stated that ODU had had some previous IL kids who had done well there and that helped with their recruiting and then I pointed out the their assistant coach Thomas has done an outstanding job for them the last 2 years. As explained by GoodWrestling they have had coaches with Il connections for several years.

You replied to the Joel Karr post (which I thought was well done) with negativity.



You are upset that there was only 1 IL wrestler starting for NIU this past year. By the way there were 2, but one was unable to compete the second semester. This year was not typical of the number of IL wrestlers that start for NIU. Last year we had 5 starters over 4 weights with one being a NCAA qualifier. The year before (2016-2017) there were 3 starters, 2 of which were NCAA qualifiers. I didn't go back any further, but my guess is that 3 - 4 is typical.



You state 'Then everyone scratches their heads as to why they cant compete.' Unfortunately you may be right that a lot of people have that perception. If so, it has a lot to do with unfounded criticism rather than facts. I don't know what your definition of 'compete' is, however I think NIU has done pretty well. We definitely have had up and down years. Last year was the one of the poorest. We had only 1 NCAA qualifier and finished last in the MAC. The previous year we had 5 qualifiers, 3 of which finished in the round of 12. The other 2 won 1 and 2 matches. The year before that we had 4 qualifiers with one in the round of 12. This year we have 2 qualifiers (both RsFr) and finished 6th in the MAC 1.5 points out of 5th and only a few more points out of 4th. Hugh improvement over the previous year. Furthermore, we are only losing 1 starter from this squad and subsequently expecting a stronger year next year. I look at NCAA qualifiers as the biggest measure of success. Our dual meet records may never be stellar because we schedule a lot of top teams to make our wrestlers better. I expect us to become consistent contenders for the top third in the MAC (which will be 15 teams next year).



If your definition of compete is to consistently beat big ten teams, then you got me. I don't see that in our future. We have however on occasion beaten some big 10 teams over the years. More importantly we have battled well on many occasions winning 3 - 4 matches or at least been close in several matches.



I hope you can step back and look at the bigger picture. If you can, it should help you lose some of your anger and frustration. We do have at least one thing we agree on - we both want Il wrestlers and universities to do well.


Smotez
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  #30  
Old 03-20-2019
Nelson*0.5's Avatar
Nelson*0.5 Nelson*0.5 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Smotez View Post
ModestMouse apparently you didn't read or didn't believe the facts/opinions in my response to your first 'rant'. it is easy to be negative, especially with generalizations.
GoodWrestling had an excellent reply to my post, addressing why ODU has done such a good job recruiting Illinois wrestlers. I had stated that ODU had had some previous IL kids who had done well there and that helped with their recruiting and then I pointed out the their assistant coach Thomas has done an outstanding job for them the last 2 years. As explained by GoodWrestling they have had coaches with Il connections for several years.

You replied to the Joel Karr post (which I thought was well done) with negativity.



You are upset that there was only 1 IL wrestler starting for NIU this past year. By the way there were 2, but one was unable to compete the second semester. This year was not typical of the number of IL wrestlers that start for NIU. Last year we had 5 starters over 4 weights with one being a NCAA qualifier. The year before (2016-2017) there were 3 starters, 2 of which were NCAA qualifiers. I didn't go back any further, but my guess is that 3 - 4 is typical.



You state 'Then everyone scratches their heads as to why they cant compete.' Unfortunately you may be right that a lot of people have that perception. If so, it has a lot to do with unfounded criticism rather than facts. I don't know what your definition of 'compete' is, however I think NIU has done pretty well. We definitely have had up and down years. Last year was the one of the poorest. We had only 1 NCAA qualifier and finished last in the MAC. The previous year we had 5 qualifiers, 3 of which finished in the round of 12. The other 2 won 1 and 2 matches. The year before that we had 4 qualifiers with one in the round of 12. This year we have 2 qualifiers (both RsFr) and finished 6th in the MAC 1.5 points out of 5th and only a few more points out of 4th. Hugh improvement over the previous year. Furthermore, we are only losing 1 starter from this squad and subsequently expecting a stronger year next year. I look at NCAA qualifiers as the biggest measure of success. Our dual meet records may never be stellar because we schedule a lot of top teams to make our wrestlers better. I expect us to become consistent contenders for the top third in the MAC (which will be 15 teams next year).



If your definition of compete is to consistently beat big ten teams, then you got me. I don't see that in our future. We have however on occasion beaten some big 10 teams over the years. More importantly we have battled well on many occasions winning 3 - 4 matches or at least been close in several matches.



I hope you can step back and look at the bigger picture. If you can, it should help you lose some of your anger and frustration. We do have at least one thing we agree on - we both want Il wrestlers and universities to do well.


Smotez
Those are some awfully rosey colored glasses that you look at the Huskies through. Your optimism is admirable but a bit befuddling. Personally, I don't think it's wrong to expect a program like NIU to compete on the level of a UNI or a CMU. I hope you can at least admit that at no point in the Ludwig nor Grant regime has NIU ever shown to be at that level. Goeden, Owen, Heizer, Bleise and the 141 pounder from Ohio 7 or 8 years ago (his name escapes me) are tlhe few beacons of upper level talent the program has been able to put forth in the last 22 years. Until NIU can begin to assemble some recruiting classes to be competitive with programs like UNI and CMU consistently, I think you will find many wrestling fans in our state who will find your optimism to be more than a little misplaced. I use programs like UNI and CMU as standards to aspire to because both are the second to the third best D1 programs in states that boast considerably less HS talent than our state. It really is not an unrealistic expectation.
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