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Old 05-26-2009
FanoftheMats FanoftheMats is offline
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Question Dual Teams - Team Illinois

How are the Cadet Dual Teams selected for Team Illinois? What does a wrestler need to accomplish to be selected? Is it just the top 2 from the state meets? Who does the selecting? We've heard there are some politics involved...if you have any information, would appreciate hearing from you.
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Old 05-26-2009
Get A Grip Get A Grip is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FanoftheMats View Post
How are the Cadet Dual Teams selected for Team Illinois? What does a wrestler need to accomplish to be selected? Is it just the top 2 from the state meets? Who does the selecting? We've heard there are some politics involved...if you have any information, would appreciate hearing from you.

they should change the name from wrestling to politics...they might as well have no standards because they pic who they want no matter what place they took at state or if they even wrestled
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Old 05-26-2009
Greenskin Greenskin is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Get A Grip View Post
they should change the name from wrestling to politics...they might as well have no standards because they pic who they want no matter what place they took at state or if they even wrestled
It seems like this is a real problem. I would like to point out a few things.....if there is no set criteria and you would like to wrestle on one of these teams or have your son wrestle on one of these teams you had better become proactive. There are a ton of factors involved in getting people to wrestle in these tournaments. There is a financial commitment that some families just can't or won't make. Time off work is required to go to a lot of these events. Injuries can play a big part. Wrestlers may not be cutting weight and individual success at one weight in a state tournament may not mean success two weight classes up when someone else is there. There is team chemistry to consider. How reliable is the wrestler or the family that has "committed". Has the wrestler provided some kind of proven track record with past involvement. Who was the first to commit? Has the coach ever coached him before or seen him wrestle?

Coaches want winning teams....don't kid yourself. But, putting a team together and coordinating the process is a lot of work for these guys. Most coaches want to coach, not play politics and be organizers. It's a thankless job. Somebody is always going to be unhappy and the last thing a coach wants or needs is a pushy or problem parent.

Try a humble inquiry and ask what can be done to show your worthiness. Understand that this is about a team not an individual. Be willing to fit in however and wherever the team can best use you. Find out ASAP who is making the decisions and be the first to step up. Don't be insulted if you are a second or third choice. Make things easy for the coach, not hard. If you aren't selected thank the coach for the opportunity and tell him you want to be considered in the future. Remember bad news travels faster than good news. If you're a jerk everyone will know about it. Followup after the match and congratulate the coach and the wrestlers on their efforts. Not only do they deserve it, but it shows you have a genuine interest beyond what you can get out of it.

Hope this helps!
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  #4  
Old 05-26-2009
FanoftheMats FanoftheMats is offline
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[quote=Greenskin;237072]It seems like this is a real problem. I would like to point out a few things.....if there is no set criteria and you would like to wrestle on one of these teams or have your son wrestle on one of these teams you had better become proactive.

Great points...couple of questions...how do you know whom to contact? Being fairly new to the sport, it's a pretty tight circle. We've mostly had nothing but positive experiences so far (especially with coaches) but even on the IL/USAW site, the qualifying events link just lists the dual meet events...doesn't give any information on whom to contact, how teams are selected, when they're selected, etc.

I did get some info on themat.com about seeding which makes sense and I can see how the coaches would like to have the best combination for seeding purposes but in general, it's hard to know where to start asking the questions. This site is usually pretty good for that kind of info. Thanks for any info you can give.
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Old 05-26-2009
ouch ouch is offline
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The coaches will contact the wrestlers if they are selected for the team.

[quote=FanoftheMats;237080]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Greenskin View Post
It seems like this is a real problem. I would like to point out a few things.....if there is no set criteria and you would like to wrestle on one of these teams or have your son wrestle on one of these teams you had better become proactive.

Great points...couple of questions...how do you know whom to contact? Being fairly new to the sport, it's a pretty tight circle. We've mostly had nothing but positive experiences so far (especially with coaches) but even on the IL/USAW site, the qualifying events link just lists the dual meet events...doesn't give any information on whom to contact, how teams are selected, when they're selected, etc.

I did get some info on themat.com about seeding which makes sense and I can see how the coaches would like to have the best combination for seeding purposes but in general, it's hard to know where to start asking the questions. This site is usually pretty good for that kind of info. Thanks for any info you can give.
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  #6  
Old 05-27-2009
Armspin Armspin is offline
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There needs to be a written selection system that will be adhered to. Having a bunch of guys simply pick the kids they like is unacceptable, and using seeding criteria at the tournament as a selection tool is idiotic. The only sensible way is to start with the state champions and work your way down. If a kid can't or doesn't want to go for any reason, move down to the next guy until the spot is filled. The state champions earned that consideration at the state tournament.

When will the teams be picked? We have two state champions that have not been offered spots.
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  #7  
Old 05-28-2009
Williams+2 Williams+2 is offline
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Seems to be working!

The team selection process seems to be working...why try and change it?

I disagree that we should start with the state champion and then move down. Where do Regional or National placers fall?
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  #8  
Old 05-29-2009
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Central guy Central guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armspin View Post
There needs to be a written selection system that will be adhered to. Having a bunch of guys simply pick the kids they like is unacceptable, and using seeding criteria at the tournament as a selection tool is idiotic. The only sensible way is to start with the state champions and work your way down. If a kid can't or doesn't want to go for any reason, move down to the next guy until the spot is filled. The state champions earned that consideration at the state tournament.

When will the teams be picked? We have two state champions that have not been offered spots.
Sorry, but I don't think you get the big picture. These coaches know who the kids are and what they have achieved. Some state champs don't get picked because the top wrestler already qualified at a much tougher tournament. That would be called a regional, or a fila event. So some of these kids don't even wrestle at state. These coaches are doing Illinois a favor. They are taking time away from there family, and there own time. They are not new to this sport, so they know what, and who it takes to put the best team together. So as far as politics go I would have to laugh at that. These guys want to win, and in years past that is what they have been doing. So I would have to say keep doing what you are doing. Pick them as you see it and keep putting Illinois a level above everyone else...
You can find the years past results at www.ilusaw.com.
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  #9  
Old 06-01-2009
Armspin Armspin is offline
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I completely understand the big picture. A selection process instead of tryouts allows the good old boy system to flourish. Picking wrestlers for Freestyle and Greco duals based on Folkstyle accomplishments is not appropriate. That is what Freshman-Senior Nationals are for.

It is easy enough to set up a wrestle off tournament, like was done for second chance, that will include regional qualifiers, state champions, state placers, and previous team members. The wrestlers actually competing at these events should be able to earn their way to the duals, like they do for Fargo. Any other system looks shady and biased.
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  #10  
Old 06-01-2009
Central IL Guy Central IL Guy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armspin View Post
I completely understand the big picture. A selection process instead of tryouts allows the good old boy system to flourish. Picking wrestlers for Freestyle and Greco duals based on Folkstyle accomplishments is not appropriate. That is what Freshman-Senior Nationals are for.

It is easy enough to set up a wrestle off tournament, like was done for second chance, that will include regional qualifiers, state champions, state placers, and previous team members. The wrestlers actually competing at these events should be able to earn their way to the duals, like they do for Fargo. Any other system looks shady and biased.

Jimmy Chase did not wrestle in the Greco State tournament the last couple years nor the second chance, so are you saying if you were the coach of the team, you wouldn't take him on your team, cause he didn't qualify?? The men that coach these teams are winning at a pretty good rate:
Home of the:
2006, 2007, 2008 Junior Freestyle National Dual Team Champion
2007, 2008 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2007 Cadet Greco-Roman National Dual Team Champion
2006 Junior Greco-Roman National Dual Team Runner-up

Straight from ILUSAW.com

So whether it is fair to little johnny or not doesn't matter. If you are worried about participation, become a boy scout or something, but the coaches of these teams are charged with the job of winning, and whether their selecting "their guys" or not doesn't matter because the have been achieving their objective pretty well.

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