Porta Tournament nightmare.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

In my opinion, the Porta tournament was very poorly run this year. I don't know how it is usually run. 450 kids and many were allowed to wrestle in 2 age divisions simultaneously with 5 mats. Some kids were there for over seven hours before wrestling their first match. Many kids left before the tournament was over. Did some have a better experience at Porta?

[cleveland steamer]

It appears as though you are telling the truth Mr. E! Here is video footage of the tournament!

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=6ba076f69480bb1030b820c7d6c7ec2d

[wrestling observer]

The tournament did run long, but there were quality kids all over the place...for the younger kids they made those 5 mats into 10, but you couldnt beat the competiton...There were state champs from missouri, and Illinois that got beat, and qualifiers from A and AA all over the place...There were a few kids(not many) that left, but the real wrestlers stuck around and had battle after battle...One thing I noticed was there were hardly any pins as the matches were really close. Many went into several OT's...I think this really adds to the time of the tournament. I think competition wise for a spring tournament, this was hard to beat. Last year there were the same numbers of kids with one less mat and it was completetly wrapped up by 4 ( including cleanup)...So I apologize for those of you that have horror stories, but I enjoyed watching a day filled with quality wrestlers...

[wrestle21]

It appears as though you are telling the truth Mr. E! Here is video footage of the tournament!

http://www.grapheine.com/bombaytv/index.php?module=see&lang=uk&code=6ba076f69480bb1030b820c7d6c7ec2d

that looked quite similar to the LOCK vs FLASHY match that I found

[THE_ONE]

The tournament was not necessarily run poorly, it was just a bad decision to allow wrestlers to enter multiple divisions. I did talk to the tournament director near the end of the day, and he did acknowledge the same problem, and told me next year he would add to the tournament flyer that wrestlers may only enter one division. He also told me that he may make all of the 10, 11 year old division 4 man brackets. Otherwise, good competition, the mats were rarely empty, good mat space for the appropriate age divisions. My only other complaint might be the quality of the "officials". There were just alot of kids and I felt they did a good job!!!

[Mr.Esterhouse]

One thing I did notice was that the kids entering 2 divisions were mostly (if not all) Porta kids.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

It would have helped if there were about 3-4 more mats. Kids seem to get bored if they sit for 6-7 hours wil no matches. I also saw a couple of state placewinners leave early, so it certainly wasn't a case of (all the real wrestlers sticking around). Maybe the kids that I noticed were the exception and not the rule, but based upon the comments of quite a few other coaches, we probably will go elsewhere next year.

[abelincolnwrestler]

I had one in the midget division and one in the High School. My little son was done by 12:30. My High School son wrestled about 11:00 and than 1:30 and 4:20 or so. I was happy, great competition. I guess I don't understand the negative comments..480 wrestlers that is 150 kids larger than anything down south. keep it in perspective if it was a high school tournament with 14 teams there would be 196 wrestlers and it would get done later than the the open.......How can someone sit for six hours ? the tournament started at 9:00 on the nose and add six hours so your son did not wrestle until 3:00 for the first time????... I bet you think ________ is six inches also.....enough said.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

We arrived at 7:30 for weigh-ins and sat in the bleachers until past 2:00 before his first match was wrestled. Do the math Einstein. That's 6 1/2 hour sitting and waiting. I'm glad your kids had a good experience. Another of mine had a state placewinner whom he was supposed to wrestle, get tired of waiting and leave and go home. It was very disappointing after waiting all day to get a chance to face him and then get a forfeit. If your day was good, then great. But, don't tell me that what I saw, didn't happen.

[Pressure33]

I was there and also had wrestlers waiting excessive amounts of time and we didn't get home until 7:30 at night. If porta folks are not willing to agree that the time was excessive and kids should not have been wrestling in 2-3 different age divisions while others sat and waited for their first match BEWARE NEXT SEASON & LOOK ELSEWHERE.

[wrestling observer]

I am a porta person and I worked the tournament and had kids of my own wrestling in the tournament...I think the time factor was excessive, and we are working on ways to make it go faster (as it always has in the past). I know the first round was completed by 11am so if your wrestler didnt wrestle until after this he must have had a bye? This is unfortunate, but out of our control as we gave porta kids byes so others could wrestle. I in fact spent most of my day figuring out ways to make sure kids got at least 2 matches. The majority got 3.
As far as a kid not showing up to wrestle, this happens at every tournament every weekend and these wrestlers(or parents) need to inform the tournament officials when they are leaving early so this wont happen to the good people like MR E. (or his kids) that are waiting around to wrestle.
I do apologize if your day didnt meet your expectations, but this is the first time this has happened at our tournament.
I cant think of anything I would rather be doing on a Saturday than sitting in a gym watching great wrestling(not being sarcastic). Come back next year and give us another shot...Inform us next year if you didnt get enough matches or if you want in the toughest bracket...we can make this happen and satisfy the majority of wrestlers...
Again, I do apologize for the long day, but this is not the norm at the PORTA invite...good luck to everyone going to Nationals and dont forget to support the ISU tournament coming up...

[Mr.Esterhouse]

Wrestling Observer, I very much appreciate the insight and the PM. I guess AbeLincoln was at a different tournament, or maybe lost his watch. I'm glad you guys acknowledge that problem and are working on it. Maybe we will try again next year.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

Oh, and he did have a first round bye.

[abelincolnwrestler]

Wrestling was listed to start at 9:00 and it did. As far as you not wrestling until 2:30. Your son must have had a bye or something because they ran through the whole first round and had the little guys out the door bye 1:00. As far as somebody leaving how can the host help the situation.

[portafan1]

One thing I did notice was that the kids entering 2 divisions were mostly (if not all) Porta kids.
That is in correct. I was at the registration table at 6:30 am and had at least a half dozen that wanted to wrestle in 2 divisions. Current PORTA wrestlers registered earlier in the week and I think only 4 wrestled in 2 divisions.

[portafan1]

The tournament did run long, but there were quality kids all over the place...for the younger kids they made those 5 mats into 10, but you couldnt beat the competiton...There were state champs from missouri, and Illinois that got beat, and qualifiers from A and AA all over the place...There were a few kids(not many) that left, but the real wrestlers stuck around and had battle after battle...One thing I noticed was there were hardly any pins as the matches were really close. Many went into several OT's...I think this really adds to the time of the tournament. I think competition wise for a spring tournament, this was hard to beat. Last year there were the same numbers of kids with one less mat and it was completetly wrapped up by 4 ( including cleanup)...So I apologize for those of you that have horror stories, but I enjoyed watching a day filled with quality wrestlers...
Last year there were 385 wrestlers with one less mat. And not as many good competitors as this year. Yes, it was a long day but exciting wrestling.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

Wrestling was listed to start at 9:00 and it did. As far as you not wrestling until 2:30. Your son must have had a bye or something because they ran through the whole first round and had the little guys out the door bye 1:00. As far as somebody leaving how can the host help the situation.

The kids obviously left because they got tired of waiting. More mats would have helped. As for the bye, that is just one more problem. If there was 450 kids, they should have been able to block off every 8 for weight classes. We didn't come all that way for a bye. It sounds to me like the Porta coaches and workers acknowledge a problem and vowed to fix it by next year. Abe, why can't you?

[Pressure33]

Why were any wrestlers allowed to wrestle in more than their own age division? Especially if you are allowing 480+ into the tournament without capping the number of entrants?

[wrestling observer]

there were only about 10 kids max in more than one division, and last year we had the same number of wrestlers (480) not 380 as stated above. We really thought with adding a mat, it would get over even faster than last year...We are already planning on making the 3rd youngest division (10-11year olds) 4 man straight brackets which will eliminate 1 round for this group and making all the 12-13 year olds 1-1-1 periods instead of 2-1-1...We are still brainstorming more ideas of making it go faster. The High school divisions were the biggest divisions by far and we are going to cater to their needs...as far as blocking weights, that is what we did, but sometimes when you block 8 man brackets, there is a kid that just doesnt fit into that group do to being much bigger than the others and this causes a bye(which we tried to give to porta wrestlers so others could wrestle more).
Thanks for all the questions and inputs. We are always looking for ways to improve...

[rootman]

I thought it was very poorly run also--plus Porta kids wrestled in more
than 1 category--I also noticed along with other families that the brackets
were bias towards Porta--Porta kids getting byes and the brackets set
up to benefit Porta with their most talented kids knocking out less talented kids. Freshman againt 8th graders, they did everything they could to pull
their wrestlers through to 1st or 2nd place--Shamefull!!!!!!!!!!!! Will not be
there next year for sure.

[wrestling observer]

Poorly run? We only had mats not full for about 10 minutes when there was confusion as to whether these kids had been called to the bullpen.
It was announced at the tournament and i said it here that our kids got byes so others could get matches...Most people want to wrestle when they travel long distances, I know i do...I did lots of the bracketing and I separated schools first then randomly placed kids in...I take offense to your comments because its not true...In fact I had porta parents request to be put up against the toughest kids in the first round if it was possible...We do not duck competion and we dont stack brackets in our favor...If your kid had a tough bracket he should be happy...There was competition all over the place at this tournament...by the way, during the season, the best kids (number 1 seeds) do get the lower seeds right off the bat as this is how tournaments that can be seeded are done...In opens you tend to get anyone right off the bat...If you fear competition then i suggest you do go elsewhere..

[mjwrestler]

Although I had to work for once on a Saturday my son and some of his teammates and coach went to the tourney. He did say it was a lot longer than he thought it would be but he was impressed with the quality of the wrestlers there and thought it was well organized. He was at state and saw many of his past competitors there.Had a great time because he only wants to wrestle regardless of the wait.Having that many kids there I am sure was a challenge but I would think more importantly is that they had it at all to allow the dedicated wrestlers another opportunity to compete.Hopefully We will be there next year. I hope to see you all at the ISU open...

[Southdad]

Been there last 6 years but didn't go this year. They have run a good one all those years can't figure every year to run smooth. One way to help may be to run the one early and let the rest show up at a later time. That way no one is there all day. Hi Mr Hill didn't make it to Clinton this year to give you a hard time.

[rootman]

I am not against competition--but it appeared the brackets were stacked in Porta's favor---I am not the only one who noticed it--numerous parents
around me were making the same comment. Go back and analize your
brackets at 145 and 155--you will see the bias in those brackets, guaranteed.
You can be offended all you want--but it appeared bias.

[DawgeatDawg2]

I am not against competition--but it appeared the brackets were stacked in Porta's favor---I am not the only one who noticed it--numerous parents
around me were making the same comment. Go back and analize your
brackets at 145 and 155--you will see the bias in those brackets, guaranteed.
You can be offended all you want--but it appeared bias.

How do you stack a bracket in someones favor. Are you saying the Porta guys got put in brackets with the easy competition. Or the easy guys were put on the same side of the bracket with the Porta wrsetler. Please explain.

[wrestling observer]

ive not looked back at them, but i know that several(4) of our kids got their butts handed to them in these weights(14-15year olds and 16-18) and one of them won a bracket...when you do as many brackets as we randomly put together, there are bound to be some that appear stacked in someones favor...there are more that appear in others favors also...in the spring, its all about gettin mat time and improving...not winning or losing ...at least thats our philosophy

[wrestler mama]

My son was in a open once for the lil kids. He was only 4 years old and he unintentionally got left out of the brackets as did 3 other kids. So they put those 4 kids in a lone bracket, imagine my horror when my little tot got put in with 3 1st graders. Needless to say he got he got his butt kicked and it truly was a "nightmare" but I saw it as a over sight, I was upset at the time but I also realized the parents that were running this did not mean for it to happen.
Running a big tournament your bound not to please 100 percent of the people, And it is a learning experience for the organizers as well as the wrestlers, as I think wrestler observer has been trying to say.

[DawgeatDawg2]

ive not looked back at them, but i know that several(4) of our kids got their butts handed to them in these weights(14-15year olds and 16-18) and one of them won a bracket...when you do as many brackets as we randomly put together, there are bound to be some that appear stacked in someones favor...there are more that appear in others favors also...in the spring, its all about gettin mat time and improving...not winning or losing ...at least thats our philosophy

That's where I'm confused, Porta went threw all that work to put a tournament on an someone thinks they would then put there kids against the weakest comp. Doesn't make sense.

[DawgeatDawg2]

Where you at Rootman, back that up.

[rootman]

What I noticed was this. If you have 2 porta kids wrestling in a certain
weight class--they both get byes the first round--then they take the
toughest of the 2 and have him wrestle the other tougher competition.
Then they take the porta kid that's not near as qualified and put him in a
bracket with kids of his level or less. This way they try and get both
Porta wrestlers in the top 2 or 3. I noticed this pattern more than once or twice.
If you go to many tournaments or follow wrestling you pretty much
know who is on what level of ability. You always look for a Stormy Hild just
to see him wrestle for example. Watching the top wrestlers is exciting
along with watching your own kid.

[wrestling observer]

fyi...Hild went 1-3 on the day...I guess he was in a weak bracket..the byes has been explained over and over...I toldyou how our kids at this weight faired....There are no team points so what you are saying is ridiculous

[rootman]

Didn't he also wrestle in the cafeteria room against older kids?
He is 1 awesome wrestler with alot of promise. There is really no need arguing
these points--you feel like you feel and I have a different opinion.

[wrestler mama]

You both have your own opinions but if someone basically called me a cheater I think I would be arging the points also.

[wrestling observer]

I think I figured it out by reading Rootmans's other posts...he has a wrestler(or is the wrestler) that took 3rd in state this year (iesa)...He wrestled a porta freshman that took 3rd last year in iesa before the championship round and was beaten...You need to realize places dont mean anything in spring tournaments...be glad the matchup happened...people that know wrestling know this was truly the championship round(more than likely)...My own kid that placed in iesa wrestled a placer from the IKWF in the semi-finals...it happens....

[DawgeatDawg2]

I'm still confused, so you think they gave there kid a bye so they could place at Porta. How much more counter productive could you get.

[rootman]

I've never hidden my identity--you can look up my other posts and I even stated that my grandson would come to the Porta tournament. He has been there the last couple years. I'm not making a statement for just my
grandsons case--I am relaying statements to you that were expressed by numerous other parents around me that felt as though the brackets were bias. I welcome the competition as does my grandson--When we went to state this year he was hoping he got to wrestle Abel again--that was his only loss for the year. I hope you understand what I am saying, lots of
people around me were complaining of how the brackets were set up--whether it was the luck of the draw or whatever. They were upset.

[rootman]

I take it your kid is Jim Stanleys grandson?

[rootman]

I did not call him a cheater--I am just relaying to him the way numerous
families looked at the bracket alignments.

[DawgeatDawg2]

If the brackets were setup the way you contest rootman, the the non porta kids got the best part of the deal. What's the complaint, their kids didn't place high enough in Porta.

[wrestling observer]

I take it your kid is Jim Stanleys grandson?
No im not coach Standley...Boy did his kid have some tough competition though! Luke wrestled Eller- vandalia, Mango-Team stlouis, I think he wrestled surber-o'fallon also? Another good example of our kids hittin the tough kids though...That was one tough group of boys...dont forget Chance Davidson too...wow...

Im glad your grandson was at the tournament, but are you only mad because he got beat by a tough Porta kid that is a freshman?? I know that Kelton who won that bracket didnt wrestle a Porta kid in the final either...Im just assuring you that none of the brackets were stacked on purpose in anyone's favor...To get ready for the 8th grade to high school transition, these kids need to wrestle quality kids and get beaten from time to time...When we were in the IKWF we traveled all over the country to get the competion we needed...Come back next year and step back in the bracketing room if you want to see whats going on(I am not being sarcastic or rude)....

[rootman]

Are you a coach? Kenny's nephew?

[rootman]

I will take you up on your offer to see how bracketing is done. No I'm upset
at all that my grandson got beat--he needs to know defeat as well as success in life. I hope you understand my expression of feelings are not
just from me, but from numerous complainers that day at Porta. My grandson
needs stiff competition to succeed--he didn't complain or even shead a tear
that day--he understood he was wrestling up in class.

[wrestling observer]

Rootman...check your private messages...hope to see you around the wrestling arenas...

[Mr.Esterhouse]

Wow...some can of worms. My only complaint was the time factor, and anything that led to the long delays and kids leaving the tournament. You wrestle who you wrestle, win or lose. We had only hoped that we would have wrestled sooner and NOT received so many byes and forfeits. I have no complaints with the level of competition or the bracketing.

[Southdad]

If you think it is that easy to put one of these on then do it and then you have the right to bitch. To put this on take hours to do and a long day. Until then go with the flow and stop bitching.

[Mr.Esterhouse]

I've probably done it 30-40 times. I know what it's like. It's not Rocket science. I always like to know what problems people have with the tournaments so they can be improved. You should welcome criticism. Your coach seems to be determined to address the problems that existed and fix them. What else can you ask for? He certainly isn't telling people to stop bitching and 'go with the flow'. When people pay money to attend the tournament, and put in a 'long day' of their own (understatement), then they DO have the right to bitch if they choose. Fix the problems and you won't have to deal with it.

[Pressure33]

Southdad... why so defensive? If you attended a tournament and sat and waited for seven hours for your son to wrestle his first match you would be bitching too. What is go with the flow... have you never had expectations for anything before? If you want something to change or run more smoothly you need to address the problem in the hopes that it doesn't happen the next time around or at other tournaments. Go with the flow is a copout excuse for anything that fails.

[wrestle21]

Southdad... why so defensive? If you attended a tournament and sat and waited for seven hours for your son to wrestle his first match you would be bitching too. What is go with the flow... have you never had expectations for anything before? If you want something to change or run more smoothly you need to address the problem in the hopes that it doesn't happen the next time around or at other tournaments. Go with the flow is a copout excuse for anything that fails.

THERE HE IS!! Pressure33 always the voice of reason!!

[THE_ONE]

Southdad... why so defensive? If you attended a tournament and sat and waited for seven hours for your son to wrestle his first match you would be bitching too. What is go with the flow... have you never had expectations for anything before? If you want something to change or run more smoothly you need to address the problem in the hopes that it doesn't happen the next time around or at other tournaments. Go with the flow is a copout excuse for anything that fails.
Except for one problem... You're not trying to help the tournament run more smoothly. You are trying to drive people away from it. In your exact Words "BEWARE NEXT SEASON & LOOK ELSEWHERE". I agree there were problems, so I went and made suggestions to Jeff Hill. What I did not do and would not do, is get on here and tell people not to go back to this tournament. It was a quality tournament that ran slowly due to some mistakes, and PORTA has acknowledged they are trying to remedy them for next year!! SO PLEASE LET THIS THING DIE!!!

[Southdad]

You hit it right. This board has become a place were people bitch but don't do nothing. Yes i have sat in off season tourn. all day. Also drove 2.5 hours to it( thats a close one for us). I am not from Porta and not defending just them. Anyone that buts on a tourn. in the off season I will not bitch about. I have been runing all over for 10 years. Bleachers get hard by the end of the day. But were not there for US we there for the kids. So but a touny on or try to help don't just set back and bitch.

[Pressure33]

THE ONE --- If you read my posting BEWARE was only thrown out when others would not admit that some items needed to be addressed to make the tournament better next season. It was in response to the attempt to sweep the issues under the rug. You know South Dad Go with the flow.

[Pressure33]

Wrestle21 good to see you borrowed a set and rejoined the message board community...

[cleveland steamer]

Southdad-
You're right, we are there for the kids. But when the tournament runs so slowly that half of the matches end up being forfeits because kids left there is limited benefit for the kids. To sit all day and wrestle once or twice is very frustrating to the kids. It makes them not want to go to a tournament the next weekend because they feel like they wasted the last weekend. A tournament that runs this slowly is not good for the promotion of the sport. And I don't know if it was some kind of Freudian slip or not, but people "put" on a tournament, not "but" on a tournament.