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  #11  
Old 07-22-2010
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Jaguar Jaguar is offline
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Originally Posted by Rob Sherrill View Post
Jaguar said it very well. All three styles bring something to the table in terms of making a wrestler well-rounded. Here at Fargo, it's not so much the style as it is wanting to wrestle the best competition. Some kids just like folkstyle and some just want the opportunity to have the time off, and that's fine if that's what they want. But coming here is a measure of whether you really like wrestling or not, want to get better, and want to prove yourself against the best.

I'm stunned at the level of wrestlers Ohio brought here. Horrible...even for the Junior freestyle. In talking to one of their people, he felt like their high school coaches aren't buying into freestyle and Greco. And it's my guess that a lot of them did it themselves. So go figure. It's a good thing we don't seem to have that problem.

I don't know whether three classes, as we have them constructed, are going to result in more accumulations of medals. Look at Barlow McGhee. He didn't even get there. And he just beat an Indiana state champion about half an hour ago. Illinois has a lot of depth.

There are just a lot of wrestling platforms these days, from high school to college to international. The states with the great college traditions aren't going away. And judging from the coaching staff we have, Illinois' domination of this time of year isn't going away, either. How the two will intersect going forward will be interesting to watch.
Although Illinois is a "freestyle and Greco state"; we also have folkstyle tournaments every weekend through the end of June that are available for the wrestlers who don't like or aren't willing to venture into the international styles. In fact, it was not that many years ago that Wisconsin and Illinois wrestlers would come to Illinois for folkstyle competition in the offseason because we had so many tournanents. We still do, but most of the best in the state are wrestling freestyle and Greco this time of year.
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  #12  
Old 07-22-2010
Greenskin Greenskin is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
There is no tournament in the country where more of the best kids are competing. That is why the college coaches go there. It really isn't fair to say that some kids specialize in the international styles. No one on the USA specializes in the international styles in high school (unless your name is Cejudo). Some kids may focus on freestyle and/or Greco in offseason, but that is not the same as specializing. There are many things that translate directly from freestyle and Greco to folkstyle success, and some of those things are better learned wrestling freestyle and Greco. For instance, Greco is all about hand fighting and position. Take away the legs, and you must focus on handfighting and position in a way that you may never have to confront in folkstyle; and thus, Greco will help develop those skills that are important to folsktyle success. Freestyle teaches the need to finish a shot. Take a bad shot or be lazy on the finish, and you pay in freestyle with cheap tilts and throws for back points. To succeed in freestyle, you must take good shots and finish. Freestyle forces a wrestler to focus on those skills in a way that folkstyle does not, and that translates to folkstyle success to all wrestlers who take the time in the offseason to focus on freestyle. College coaches know and appreciate these things. Freestyle and Greco success is an indication of the development of these skills that make a better folkstyle wrestler.
I don't believe that I said we have kids who specialize in these styles and I didn't mean to infer that. What I am saying is that there are kids who spend a lot more time on these styles than others. It is not unreasonable to expect that those kids will do better in these tournaments than those who don't. Put them together in a folkstyle situation and you may get totally different results. For everything that these styles add to a wrestlers development, there is no bottom wrestling whatsoeverand few of the traditional pinning techniques that we see in folkstyle. These are two huge areas that are for the most part ignored in favor of better handfighting skills as well as some of the others that you mentioned.

Once again, I'm just trying to answer a question that was posed earlier. I enjoy the fact that Illinois dominates in the international styles. Even though we have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of I wish we were as dominant in the folkstyle and that was reflected in collegiate success..
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  #13  
Old 07-22-2010
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Grandpa Knows Grandpa Knows is offline
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Thanks

Greenskin, Jag, and Mr. Sherrell,
Thanks discussing this, we have been debating this same topic within our family. Your well educated input has been very informative and helpful.
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  #14  
Old 07-22-2010
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Originally Posted by Greenskin View Post
I don't believe that I said we have kids who specialize in these styles and I didn't mean to infer that. What I am saying is that there are kids who spend a lot more time on these styles than others. It is not unreasonable to expect that those kids will do better in these tournaments than those who don't. Put them together in a folkstyle situation and you may get totally different results. For everything that these styles add to a wrestlers development, there is no bottom wrestling whatsoeverand few of the traditional pinning techniques that we see in folkstyle. These are two huge areas that are for the most part ignored in favor of better handfighting skills as well as some of the others that you mentioned.

Once again, I'm just trying to answer a question that was posed earlier. I enjoy the fact that Illinois dominates in the international styles. Even though we have absolutely nothing to be ashamed of I wish we were as dominant in the folkstyle and that was reflected in collegiate success..
I do agree with you on that.

I will add that there are probably a number of reasons why our high school success has not translated into the same kind of college success. One of them is the emphasis that became prevelant in our state on the neutral position, while at the same time minimizing attention to the top and bottom position (other than escapes) - the takedown and let 'em up style of wrestling. If you go to the east coast, in particular, those guys are tough on top and work for pins. We have not been like that as a whole in Illinois. Maybe that is why we like freestyle and Greco so much.
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Last edited by Jaguar; 07-22-2010 at 05:07 PM.
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Old 07-22-2010
Greenskin Greenskin is offline
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Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
I do agree with you on that.

I will add that there are probably a number of reasons why our high school success has not translated into the same kind of college success. One of them is the emphasis that became prevelant in our state on the neutral position, while at the same time minimizing attention to the top and bottom position (other than escapes) - the takedown and let 'em up style of wrestling. If you go to the east coast, in particular, those guys are tough on top and work for pins. We have not been like that as a whole in Illinois. Maybe that is why we like freestyle and Greco so much.
I can verify that through personal experience. Those guys out East can flat out wrestle down on the mat. We do spend a lot more time on our feet in Illinois and I spend more time teaching takedown technique than top and bottom wrestling combined. Freestyle has a great emphasis on wrestling on your feet, so I would agree that it is a logical transition for Illinois kids. As for Greco, I don't know if it is still true but the Russians used to put their best athletes in Greco.
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Old 07-22-2010
Greenskin Greenskin is offline
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Originally Posted by Grandpa Knows View Post
Greenskin, Jag, and Mr. Sherrell,
Thanks discussing this, we have been debating this same topic within our family. Your well educated input has been very informative and helpful.
It is amazing what can be both shared and learned when people can discuss something sensibly and respect each other's opinions without getting bent out of shape. My thanks to Jag and Mr. Sherill as well.
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