Montini

[Cubs84]

Im glad yopu punched him for two reasons

I certainly didn't mean anything rotten when starting this thread. The Benefiel thing just really got me thinking. Also I never really meant anything specific to D1 either. I am just suprised that there haven't been more successful college wrestlers from Montini. In the past 10 (or so) years Montini has had more individual and team success than any other team and it just doesn't seem to be translating to college. I have no idea how many former Montini wrestlers even wrestled in college so maybe the lack of college success isn't really that surprising. LOL... my buddy just said "Maybe 'cause the free ride ended after they walked out of Montini." I punched him for you Cubs84.

1. violence is almost always the answer
2 that doesnt make amy sense. Free ride? Does that mean every public school kid gets a free ride? Again beside Benefiel which kid should have won a title or been an aa? I'll sit down and wait for your aneurysm

[admin]

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

[tilt]

Seiously?

I think when you talk about the best wrestlers they are as follows: not in any order

Goebel=football player
Chase Beebe=fighter
Conor Beebe=multiple qualifier
Benefiel=jury still out


Who else stands out as a wrestler who should have been an all american and wasn't? I think we under appreciate how hard it is to wrestle in div 1 and be an aa. We have had a ton of state champs but again who was it that you would say was a lock to be aa? Obviously Mikey and Goebel.

I know you didnt just say of all Montini champs ONLY those 4 had a great shot at being a AA?

IMHO a bunch of Montini champs had a great chance to AA before their career is/was done in college.

1. I think Bennefiel will still AA but maybe as a D3?
2.Martin was a star for Montini all 4 years and was a D1 scholarship wrestler.
3.Mcafee after leaving Montini was supposed to be training for the Olympics let alone college.
4.The Fowlers also left early to take advantage of pre-college coaching to prepare for the next level.
5.I thought Foreside had more "upside" to be a great college wrestler than just about anybody at Montini.
6.Saunders was close to AA last year.
7.If Grimes could win Midlands you dont think he had a good chance to AA? Otherwise why mention Midlands?
8. Both Robertson and Rasche are legit and still have time.

And there are a few other guys that I cant think of their names off the top of my head- the one wrestler placed ahead of Morgan at state was also a champ for Montini and at one time was a starter for Mizzou when they were a top 5 college. And there was a great 145 pounder for Montini that was a scholarship wrestler for Northwestern.

But Montini has enjoyed many stars over the years that had very legitimate shots to become a AA during college. Were they all "locks" ,of course not because there is NO such thing as a lock to AA in college. But if any of them AAd even just once in college it would be a surprise to noone.

[55663]

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

Couldn't agree more.

[Cubs84]

Read my post

I know you didnt just say of all Montini champs ONLY those 4 had a great shot at being a AA?

IMHO a bunch of Montini champs had a great chance to AA before their career is/was done in college.

1. I think Bennefiel will still AA but maybe as a D3?
2.Martin was a star for Montini all 4 years and was a D1 scholarship wrestler.
3.Mcafee after leaving Montini was supposed to be training for the Olympics let alone college.
4.The Fowlers also left early to take advantage of pre-college coaching to prepare for the next level.
5.I thought Foreside had more "upside" to be a great college wrestler than just about anybody at Montini.
6.Saunders was close to AA last year.
7.If Grimes could win Midlands you dont think he had a good chance to AA? Otherwise why mention Midlands?
8. Both Robertson and Rasche are legit and still have time.

And there are a few other guys that I cant think of their names off the top of my head- the one wrestler placed ahead of Morgan at state was also a champ for Montini and at one time was a starter for Mizzou when they were a top 5 college. And there was a great 145 pounder for Montini that was a scholarship wrestler for Northwestern.

But Montini has enjoyed many stars over the years that had very legitimate shots to become a AA during college. Were they all "locks" ,of course not because there is NO such thing as a lock to AA in college. But if any of them AAd even just once in college it would be a surprise to noone.

I said who else was EXPECTED to aa. Vince Hannon was a big match wrestler for us but not a state champ. He wrestled at Mizzou. I dion't think Fowlers were considered threats to be all americans allthough they worked their tails off and were great. I think kids who win multiple state titles are who I would consider favorites to become aa's or at least division 1 aa's.

[215fan]

1. violence is almost always the answer
2 that doesnt make amy sense. Free ride? Does that mean every public school kid gets a free ride? Again beside Benefiel which kid should have won a title or been an aa? I'll sit down and wait for your aneurysm

Come on... tell me that with all the success that Montini has had that there shouldn't be more college success?.. Martin, Beebe(s), Coletti, Grimes?.. The list goes on for me. Just curious, can you make a short list of Montini placers/champs from the past 10 years that wrestled in college? Maybe that would answer my question.

[tilt]

yep

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

Lester is also a very legit AA candidate this year so theres no shame in White losing to him. But man is this match an example of how a 4 time Illinois state champ can be dominated at the college level because of the inability to escape and ride.

A couple years ago Twist was willing to take bets on White AA but then White had some injuries. But here is a healthy and mature White that just isnt wrestling on the mat. He needs to turn it around quickly.

[nmhawk]

1. violence is almost always the answer
2 that doesnt make amy sense. Free ride? Does that mean every public school kid gets a free ride? Again beside Benefiel which kid should have won a title or been an aa? I'll sit down and wait for your aneurysm

Unless something has changed since last August, there is nothing free about sending you kid to public school.

[mckbln]

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

Actually that does not surprise me; Albert White never impressed me as a great wrestler. Great athlete, yes. He was physically gifted and mature as a high school wrestler. As far as wrestling ability...Benefiel had no problem handling him at Dvorak. In DI wrestling, Albert had none of those athletic advantages so he gets beat by guys who are just better wrestlers. I think Fanthorpe, Kennedy, Precin, Poeta, Tannenbaum adapted well to the DI level of competition, and all of them were very good mat wrestlers.

If you want to factor in the Olympics, that's a whole different animal and that's not just an Illinois thing; Joe WIlliams...great high school and college wrestler, never medaled in the Olympics. Askren as well...shined in high school and college...laid an egg in Beijing.

[tilt]

multiple state titles

I said who else was EXPECTED to aa. Vince Hannon was a big match wrestler for us but not a state champ. He wrestled at Mizzou. I dion't think Fowlers were considered threats to be all americans allthough they worked their tails off and were great. I think kids who win multiple state titles are who I would consider favorites to become aa's or at least division 1 aa's.

I don't agree with your statement that multiple state titles gives a better chance to AA because its all about the brackets and whos in them in any given year.

Foreside would be a 2 timer if not for Blanton. Dennis AAd without ever being a state champ.

But if you are right about multiple state champs then Montini still has a long list a two time state champs.

Colletti,Rasche Martin Baer Robertson, Gonzalez, Grimes Clay and wasnt Mucha a two time runnerup? Maybe 1 or 2 of these guys were 1 time champ and runnerup but the point is that Montini lists are long with potential AA candidates according to your criteria.

[tilt]

mostly agreed but

Actually that does not surprise me; Albert White never impressed me as a great wrestler. Great athlete, yes. He was physically gifted and mature as a high school wrestler. As far as wrestling ability...Benefiel had no problem handling him at Dvorak. In DI wrestling, Albert had none of those athletic advantages so he gets beat by guys who are just better wrestlers. I think Fanthorpe, Kennedy, Precin, Poeta, Tannenbaum adapted well to the DI level of competition, and all of them were very good mat wrestlers.

If you want to factor in the Olympics, that's a whole different animal and that's not just an Illinois thing; Joe WIlliams...great high school and college wrestler, never medaled in the Olympics. Askren as well...shined in high school and college...laid an egg in Beijing.

Benefiel DID NOT handle him without problem. It was like a two point close match. At one time it was posted on this site.

Yes White is more athletic than most competition. But he is also a pretty darn good wrestler. Just not as good a mat wrestler as his competition is these days. He will see a few more great wrestlers in the next few weeks and then we should have a better idea if AA is in the cards this year.

[mckbln]

Benefiel DID NOT handle him without problem. It was like a two point close match. At one time it was posted on this site.

Yes White is more athletic than most competition. But he is also a pretty darn good wrestler. Just not as good a mat wrestler as his competition is these days. He will see a few more great wrestlers in the next few weeks and then we should have a better idea if AA is in the cards this year.

No, I sat right there and watched the match; Benefiel was in complete control, scored two TDs and White had zero offense...all his points came when Mikey let him go.

White is not a great wrestler; he succeeded in high school because he was athletic...fast, powerful, but at the DI level all of these guys are. By this time in his DI career, I HOPE he can AA...and OSU is a great program for him to succeed at. Had he been a Juco or NCAA DIII/DII wrestler he would probably already have won multiple titles, but as I said before...at the DI level he doesn't have those athletic advantages...he has to actually wrestle. Case in point: Deneen was a very good wrestler; he wasn't particularly athletic...just a solid kid, hard worker, grinder, but...developed the skills. He had a momentary lapse of concentration that cost him a title...but as pure wrestling skills go he was WAY beyond White in his college career.

[promartinez]

Wow what an enlightening eye opening thread on how a hyped H.S. Team is just that.
Never would of thought of it.
I guess i just thought Montini = College Success...

[IlliniFan92]

I agree with mr. twister and radical. you have to be a good mat wrestler at the next level. I have always hated wrestling on the mat and never worked on getting off bottom and it cost me a state title. i then went on to wrestle DI for a year and had no success simply because i could not wrestle on the mat. needless to say i am not wrestling anymore.

[tilt]

nope

No, I sat right there and watched the match; Benefiel was in complete control, scored two TDs and White had zero offense...all his points came when Mikey let him go.

White is not a great wrestler; he succeeded in high school because he was athletic...fast, powerful, but at the DI level all of these guys are. By this time in his DI career, I HOPE he can AA...and OSU is a great program for him to succeed at. Had he been a Juco or NCAA DIII/DII wrestler he would probably already have won multiple titles, but as I said before...at the DI level he doesn't have those athletic advantages...he has to actually wrestle. Case in point: Deneen was a very good wrestler; he wasn't particularly athletic...just a solid kid, hard worker, grinder, but...developed the skills. He had a momentary lapse of concentration that cost him a title...but as pure wrestling skills go he was WAY beyond White in his college career.

It was not a" handling". And it is on IM website.

Appropriate for this thread, both wrestlers ONLY made attempts at takedowns and Bennefiel came out on top . Neither wrestler did anything from the top .

!st period. Bennefiel gets a takedown at about 1:17 at edge of mat.
White gets immediate escape. 2-1

2nd period. White top,Bennefiel escapes/cut. Bennefiel in deep on leg,White tries a reverse throw and misses,Bennefiel td. White immediate escape. 5-2

3rd period. Bennefiel on top, White immediate escape. Match 5-3 White picks up pace and gets in deep on shot, Bennefiel fights it off. White chases and tries a couple more shots. Time runs out with score 5-3.

And I assume you are talking about Daniel Dennis and not Deneen.

Finally, its just wrong to say a 4 time champ was not a good wrestler. Yes he was faster and better on his feet . Yes he didnt get to the 3rd period that often to have to mat wrestle because he teched guys so often. Yes at the college level his mat skills need improvement.

But NO he was not just a good athlete who also happened to wrestle.