Montini

[tilt]

yep

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

Lester is also a very legit AA candidate this year so theres no shame in White losing to him. But man is this match an example of how a 4 time Illinois state champ can be dominated at the college level because of the inability to escape and ride.

A couple years ago Twist was willing to take bets on White AA but then White had some injuries. But here is a healthy and mature White that just isnt wrestling on the mat. He needs to turn it around quickly.

[215fan]

1. violence is almost always the answer
2 that doesnt make amy sense. Free ride? Does that mean every public school kid gets a free ride? Again beside Benefiel which kid should have won a title or been an aa? I'll sit down and wait for your aneurysm

Come on... tell me that with all the success that Montini has had that there shouldn't be more college success?.. Martin, Beebe(s), Coletti, Grimes?.. The list goes on for me. Just curious, can you make a short list of Montini placers/champs from the past 10 years that wrestled in college? Maybe that would answer my question.

[Cubs84]

Read my post

I know you didnt just say of all Montini champs ONLY those 4 had a great shot at being a AA?

IMHO a bunch of Montini champs had a great chance to AA before their career is/was done in college.

1. I think Bennefiel will still AA but maybe as a D3?
2.Martin was a star for Montini all 4 years and was a D1 scholarship wrestler.
3.Mcafee after leaving Montini was supposed to be training for the Olympics let alone college.
4.The Fowlers also left early to take advantage of pre-college coaching to prepare for the next level.
5.I thought Foreside had more "upside" to be a great college wrestler than just about anybody at Montini.
6.Saunders was close to AA last year.
7.If Grimes could win Midlands you dont think he had a good chance to AA? Otherwise why mention Midlands?
8. Both Robertson and Rasche are legit and still have time.

And there are a few other guys that I cant think of their names off the top of my head- the one wrestler placed ahead of Morgan at state was also a champ for Montini and at one time was a starter for Mizzou when they were a top 5 college. And there was a great 145 pounder for Montini that was a scholarship wrestler for Northwestern.

But Montini has enjoyed many stars over the years that had very legitimate shots to become a AA during college. Were they all "locks" ,of course not because there is NO such thing as a lock to AA in college. But if any of them AAd even just once in college it would be a surprise to noone.

I said who else was EXPECTED to aa. Vince Hannon was a big match wrestler for us but not a state champ. He wrestled at Mizzou. I dion't think Fowlers were considered threats to be all americans allthough they worked their tails off and were great. I think kids who win multiple state titles are who I would consider favorites to become aa's or at least division 1 aa's.

[55663]

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

Couldn't agree more.

[tilt]

Seiously?

I think when you talk about the best wrestlers they are as follows: not in any order

Goebel=football player
Chase Beebe=fighter
Conor Beebe=multiple qualifier
Benefiel=jury still out


Who else stands out as a wrestler who should have been an all american and wasn't? I think we under appreciate how hard it is to wrestle in div 1 and be an aa. We have had a ton of state champs but again who was it that you would say was a lock to be aa? Obviously Mikey and Goebel.

I know you didnt just say of all Montini champs ONLY those 4 had a great shot at being a AA?

IMHO a bunch of Montini champs had a great chance to AA before their career is/was done in college.

1. I think Bennefiel will still AA but maybe as a D3?
2.Martin was a star for Montini all 4 years and was a D1 scholarship wrestler.
3.Mcafee after leaving Montini was supposed to be training for the Olympics let alone college.
4.The Fowlers also left early to take advantage of pre-college coaching to prepare for the next level.
5.I thought Foreside had more "upside" to be a great college wrestler than just about anybody at Montini.
6.Saunders was close to AA last year.
7.If Grimes could win Midlands you dont think he had a good chance to AA? Otherwise why mention Midlands?
8. Both Robertson and Rasche are legit and still have time.

And there are a few other guys that I cant think of their names off the top of my head- the one wrestler placed ahead of Morgan at state was also a champ for Montini and at one time was a starter for Mizzou when they were a top 5 college. And there was a great 145 pounder for Montini that was a scholarship wrestler for Northwestern.

But Montini has enjoyed many stars over the years that had very legitimate shots to become a AA during college. Were they all "locks" ,of course not because there is NO such thing as a lock to AA in college. But if any of them AAd even just once in college it would be a surprise to noone.

[admin]

I think this match sums it up. We are not good enough on the mat. Period.

http://www.flowrestling.org/coverage...Matt-Lester-OU

[Cubs84]

Im glad yopu punched him for two reasons

I certainly didn't mean anything rotten when starting this thread. The Benefiel thing just really got me thinking. Also I never really meant anything specific to D1 either. I am just suprised that there haven't been more successful college wrestlers from Montini. In the past 10 (or so) years Montini has had more individual and team success than any other team and it just doesn't seem to be translating to college. I have no idea how many former Montini wrestlers even wrestled in college so maybe the lack of college success isn't really that surprising. LOL... my buddy just said "Maybe 'cause the free ride ended after they walked out of Montini." I punched him for you Cubs84.

1. violence is almost always the answer
2 that doesnt make amy sense. Free ride? Does that mean every public school kid gets a free ride? Again beside Benefiel which kid should have won a title or been an aa? I'll sit down and wait for your aneurysm

[tilt]

did the season already end?

This is actually a statement you could make about a lot of IL wrestlers from top programs, especially at the DI level. While you had Tannenbaum, Poeta, Kennedy, Precin, Fanthorpe to name a few all make it to AA status, none of them won a title, and several others, like White and Benefiel, never had real success. There are still a bunch out there; hope to see Tony Ramos, BJ Futrell, Nick and Chris Dardanes do well.

White is ranked top 10 and has a very legitimate chance to AA this year.

I wouldnt be surprised to see Bennefiel a D3 national champ.

[tilt]

I don't know how many times....

.....that I have brought this subject up? 10 maybe 20 times?

Heres some food for thought and everyone can draw their own conclusions. In my opinion Izzy was the greatest wrestler on his feet that I have ever seen from Illinois! When he wanted to be -he was a takedown machine that could destroy other great wrestlers.Izzy was better on his feet than Williams IMO. Of course both Williams were better mat wrestlers and pinners.

Izzy and Martinez Elite has been the main "technical" influence over Montini in the last 10 years.

There have been great wresters such as Tannenbaum, Fanthorpe and Ramos that were heavily influenced by Izzy but didnt wrestle at Montini but at other high schools.Those non Montini wrestlers will all be multiple AAs and Ramos may be a champ before his college is done.

Now take Twists many comments about mat v. feet wrestling and the importance of better mat wrestling at the college level and draw your own conclusions.

IMO, Bennefiel should be at least a two time AA . But both years he was rode out in critical matches.But iIts still not too late for Bennefiel to be a D3 champ.

[MR TWISTER]

I certainly didn't mean anything rotten when starting this thread. The Benefiel thing just really got me thinking. Also I never really meant anything specific to D1 either. I am just suprised that there haven't been more successful college wrestlers from Montini. In the past 10 (or so) years Montini has had more individual and team success than any other team and it just doesn't seem to be translating to college. I have no idea how many former Montini wrestlers even wrestled in college so maybe the lack of college success isn't really that surprising. LOL... my buddy just said "Maybe 'cause the free ride ended after they walked out of Montini." I punched him for you Cubs84.

I don't think anyone took your question the wrong way. College wrestling as you know is a different mindset. You have to learn a whole new style of wrestling ; i.e. getting off the bottom. Then there is the physical part, it is just brutal out there on the college mat. Plus the season and commitment is much longer and for real.

I would not put it on Montini alone. Pretty much every one that is ranked in any level of college wrestling is talented. Because there are a lot fewer teams than in the past because of all of the programs closing, the talent pool is a lot tighter. Only the strong survive. I would venture to bet a kid that has several hs bracket boards or team titles is not as hungry as the kid that was close but did not get to the top. Now this is not always the case but it has a lot to do with it.

None of us know the specific reason why Montini does not have 10 champs and maybe 15 AA's over the last few years. But some good reasons may of been already outlined in these post.

[215fan]

I think when you talk about the best wrestlers they are as follows: not in any order

Goebel=football player
Chase Beebe=fighter
Conor Beebe=multiple qualifier
Benefiel=jury still out


Who else stands out as a wrestler who should have been an all american and wasn't? I think we under appreciate how hard it is to wrestle in div 1 and be an aa. We have had a ton of state champs but again who was it that you would say was a lock to be aa? Obviously Mikey and Goebel.

I certainly didn't mean anything rotten when starting this thread. The Benefiel thing just really got me thinking. Also I never really meant anything specific to D1 either. I am just suprised that there haven't been more successful college wrestlers from Montini. In the past 10 (or so) years Montini has had more individual and team success than any other team and it just doesn't seem to be translating to college. I have no idea how many former Montini wrestlers even wrestled in college so maybe the lack of college success isn't really that surprising. LOL... my buddy just said "Maybe 'cause the free ride ended after they walked out of Montini." I punched him for you Cubs84.

[MR TWISTER]

Winning a title is really a long shot. I think of your list Ramos is the favorite for sure. I'd like to add Blanton to that short list as well. I think that he's just a step away from where he needs to be this year, in preparation for next year.
As far as Montini goes... I don't get it either. So much talent that just doesn't seem to progress to the 'next' level. Four years ago you would have been pressed to find a fan of IHSA wrestling that wouldn't have thought Benefiel would end up a multiple time AA. It's funny I guess... you just never know. On the flip side there are guys like Terrazas that might AA this year that maybe no one would have ever thought.

Now there is an understatement. I felt blessed that my kid was even in two title matches much less winning one. So much can go wrong. Among the things I learned that can derail a championship laid with the best plans...

1. the bracket Gods
2. the injury bug
3. grades
4. the competition
5. the long season
6. bad coaching
7. giirls
8. your family
9. not getting off the bottom
10. the ref
11. poor conditioning
12. inadequet practice partners
13. laziness
14. lack of technique
15. failure to study film
16. bad luck

I am sure there are more but these come to mind because I think my son experienced most of them over the last five years...

[Cubs84]

Grimes was a midland champ and natl qualifier

Lots of talk lately about Benefiel and it got me wondering... with all the talent Montini has had over the years who has had the most successful wrestling career after high school? Is it a surprise to anyone that there hasn't been more former Bronco wrestlers that have made some serious noise in college? I think Goebel had a great shot at becoming a multiple AA but obviously chose football instead. I am not looking to pick a fight with the Bronco nation, just curious what everyone thought.

I think when you talk about the best wrestlers they are as follows: not in any order

Goebel=football player
Chase Beebe=fighter
Conor Beebe=multiple qualifier
Benefiel=jury still out


Who else stands out as a wrestler who should have been an all american and wasn't? I think we under appreciate how hard it is to wrestle in div 1 and be an aa. We have had a ton of state champs but again who was it that you would say was a lock to be aa? Obviously Mikey and Goebel.

[MR TWISTER]

Very well said

As a state we don't wrestle well enough on the mat to turn out National Champions on a regular basis. Riding, turning and getting off the bottom are necessary to achieve that kind of success. The kids from PA, OH, NJ do a much better job of that in high school and are way ahead when they get to the college level. There are exceptions, but when we start to emphasize these skills you will see more AA's and champs.

I think you are spot on with this point. It took my own son getting rode for 5 minutes in a 7 minute match by the national champ as a red shirt freshman to learn the lesson. That match cost him being a four time AA. He however learned that being athletic on his feet would get him the takedowns he needed to win but getting rode out would not get him to his feet to get the takedown. From that point on in his career he never got rode out again and never gave up over 2 minutes of riding time in the next 100 matches. And that was at the DII level. It is even worse at the DI level.

In college you either get off the bottom or you end up not winning and dropping out the sport. Simple as that IMHO!

[IHSAWrestleFan]

This is actually a statement you could make about a lot of IL wrestlers from top programs, especially at the DI level. While you had Tannenbaum, Poeta, Kennedy, Precin, Fanthorpe to name a few all make it to AA status, none of them won a title, and several others, like White and Benefiel, never had real success. There are still a bunch out there; hope to see Tony Ramos, BJ Futrell, Nick and Chris Dardanes do well.

Winning a title is really a long shot. I think of your list Ramos is the favorite for sure. I'd like to add Blanton to that short list as well. I think that he's just a step away from where he needs to be this year, in preparation for next year.
As far as Montini goes... I don't get it either. So much talent that just doesn't seem to progress to the 'next' level. Four years ago you would have been pressed to find a fan of IHSA wrestling that wouldn't have thought Benefiel would end up a multiple time AA. It's funny I guess... you just never know. On the flip side there are guys like Terrazas that might AA this year that maybe no one would have ever thought.