Stalling in the post-season

[Assembly of Dust]

I wrestled freestyle. Made a fargo team.

I hate Greco, The push out, and freestyle wrestling.

I love todays funk. I love watching two guys rolling around like they are in a dryer. (Look at the Delgado match at the NCAA qtrs. his freshman year against the Kent State guy)

The push creates more problems than it solves.

[Tiger Pride]

Agree on Some Things

PWPanther I agree with you except for the riding time. Riding time will create even less action than we have now. I want to see more action, not more riding. AssemblyofDust if you think the push out rule makes people focused on pushing people out instead of scoring, you must not have wrestled freestyle or Greco. You just take your push out point when your opponent is backing up and stopping the action. Attacking wrestlers would rather get more points than one by finishing the action if possible. Push outs would be no more subjective than line calls are now. So I don't see this as any problem.

To be honest, it probably all comes down to what a person knows and/or likes. Everyone likes to see a different type of match, I guess. It also comes down to the type of wrestling you value the most. I appreciate the discussion. I guess we will all have to agree to disagree on certain points.

With that said, the push out point is receiving serious consideration at the national level whether we like it or not.

[PWPanther]

Adopt NCAA rules including riding time and one foot in bounds. The value of the additional point for riding makes working on bottom more urgent. The one foot inbounds rule eliminates wrestlers from feeling secure playing the edge. More wrestling is always going to be the better option rather than more rules.

[Assembly of Dust]

The push out rule get's wrestlers more focused on pushing people out of bounds than wrestling.

What we need is to have more mats at the edge of the Mat. So we can have the one foot in bounds rule like in college.

[inpain]

This would not necessarily be the case. I'd rather see us wrestle freestyle and Greco Roman anyway like the rest of the world. However, I know that I don't represent the majority with that thought process. I do believe that adding a push out and a stand up rule could work in folkstyle. You could even give them a bit more time to work on the mat than you would in the International Styles.

Folkstyle is all about control versus exposure and initiating offense. You could still maintain that focus without adding moves using locked hands and moves used to expose the back rather than holding one's back to the mat for a set amount of time. I honestly think this would improve folkstyle. I just took a national survey as an official looking at potential issues and concerns and one of the questions dealt with the addition of a push out rule. I'm not saying that they are going that direction, but they are seeking input regarding this. I think people are sick of watching wrestlers play the edge and ride parallel to the hips.

If stalling was called for lack of action on the edge and riding parallel we would not need what you want which is the push out and stand up. Even in fs and gr refs have different views on when to stand wrestlers up. Also who gets the push out? Making that call can be just as subjective as stalling. I think you are just trading one set of problems for another

[MetroEastDude]

For what it's worth, stalling was called often and very consistently at the Quincy regional Saturday. Like others have already said, stalling is somewhat subjective, so I highly doubt they were perfect all day, but quite possibly the best I've ever seen over the course of a full day. Hoping these next two weekends will be similar.

[Tiger Pride]

Please Explain

Please explain why a push out rule would be horrible to stop edge wrestling. I would like to understand your point of view.

[Assembly of Dust]

Push out rule is horrible.

[Tiger Pride]

Not Necessarily

If you are going to adopt those rules we might as well just go to freestyle and let folkstyle go by the wayside.

This would not necessarily be the case. I'd rather see us wrestle freestyle and Greco Roman anyway like the rest of the world. However, I know that I don't represent the majority with that thought process. I do believe that adding a push out and a stand up rule could work in folkstyle. You could even give them a bit more time to work on the mat than you would in the International Styles.

Folkstyle is all about control versus exposure and initiating offense. You could still maintain that focus without adding moves using locked hands and moves used to expose the back rather than holding one's back to the mat for a set amount of time. I honestly think this would improve folkstyle. I just took a national survey as an official looking at potential issues and concerns and one of the questions dealt with the addition of a push out rule. I'm not saying that they are going that direction, but they are seeking input regarding this. I think people are sick of watching wrestlers play the edge and ride parallel to the hips.

[TP4LssPC]

Sorenson was very consistent at the regional calling stalling thru all periods. The only one of the 3. Jeff was great and one of the best we got here in IL

[inpain]

One point for push out. Put people on their feet when nothing is happening on the mat. Forget about stalling altogether. And please don't adopt the college stalling rules. What a mess that would be. Might be doable for high level officials at the college level, but for the average high school official, this level of specificity on stalling would be an utter nightmare.

If you are going to adopt those rules we might as well just go to freestyle and let folkstyle go by the wayside.

[inpain]

I just wish officials would call stalling at state the same way they would during the regular season. I've seen officials during meets not call a single stall call. Then they get down state and those same officials are throwing their fist up every 10 seconds. Just try and be consistent is what I ask for with it.

I agree I have seen the same thing. Essentially the kids are trained all year what is acceptable and then all of a sudden the rules change.

[inpain]

I call stalling in the first period when I see it so that it means something if it happens with 20 seconds left in the third. I don't think it's fair to the wrestlers to let them wrestle one way in the first period but require a different level of activity in the third.

I feel I owe it to the competitors to be consistent throughout the match. It is known that consistency in stalling calls from one official to another is impossible. The least I can do is be consistent from the start of the match to the finish, and from one match to the next.

Additionally, if I see one competitor being the aggressor in the first period and I call stalling when I see it, without hesitation, it encourages a more aggressive match overall by both wrestlers because they know that this ref isn't afraid to call stalling when he sees it.

Also - when I warn a wrestler for stalling early in the match, I always tell him why he's being warned.... "You have to work to turn, you can't just ride the hips", or "You cant just keep going out of bounds backwards" or "You can't play the edge like that".

Just my $.02.

If more refs would call matches like u do we would have less problems. Communicating with the wrestlers is especially important I believe.

[Fockerized152]

I just wish officials would call stalling at state the same way they would during the regular season. I've seen officials during meets not call a single stall call. Then they get down state and those same officials are throwing their fist up every 10 seconds. Just try and be consistent is what I ask for with it.

[AntiochWhistleBlower]

New Officials

The IHSA is looking for good wrestling officials. Seems like we have a lot here with good insight(s).