Stalling in the post-season

[Kurt Angle]

Piggy-backing on the 'refs deciding matches thread' here...
I am confident I speak for the wrestling community when I ask that we enforce stalling the same in the first period as we do in the third period. Officials do not need to take in to account any type of 'feeling out' period for the opening minute of the match. If 2 or 3 attacks earn you a stall in the third period, enforce it that way in the first period as well. We all know that when a wrestler is behind late in matches they MUST attack and take risk. Let's reward those who choose to attack and take risk early in matches. Stalling is subjective, yes we all know, but please lets exercise some common sense in the pivotal matches to come in the next few weeks.

[Nelson*0.5]

Piggy-backing on the 'refs deciding matches thread' here...
I am confident I speak for the wrestling community when I ask that we enforce stalling the same in the first period as we do in the third period. Officials do not need to take in to account any type of 'feeling out' period for the opening minute of the match. If 2 or 3 attacks earn you a stall in the third period, enforce it that way in the first period as well. We all know that when a wrestler is behind late in matches they MUST attack and take risk. Let's reward those who choose to attack and take risk early in matches. Stalling is subjective, yes we all know, but please lets exercise some common sense in the pivotal matches to come in the next few weeks.

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Stalling is and should often be a situational call. For example, I think stalling should be called much differently when you have a guy who gives up an escape with 20 seconds left in the match and is holding onto a 1 point lead. If I'm the ref in that kind of situation, I am going to be extra vigilant in looking for any obvious sign of that guy trying to protect his lead. 2 stall calls in the final 20 seconds is going to be much more likely than 2 calls in the first 20 seconds. In the first 20 seconds, I'm going to allow for setups and some action outside the 10 foot circle. I am more likely to give more time to be sure that a guy is truly avoiding wrestling rather than maybe setting up a shot near the edge of the mat. In the final 20 seconds of a one point match where a guy is likely slowing down and protecting a lead, the same guy will get no such latitude. Call it BS if you will, but that's reality. And until we put rules in place that make stalling a whole lot less subjective, it will always be a situational call.

[Magilla]

Push out rule, end of the problem...

[Nelson*0.5]

Push out rule, end of the problem...

I don't necessarily agree that we need the push-out rule like in the international styles, but if we truly want stalling to be less subjective then NFHS needs to look at putting in rules similar to what NCAA implemented this year. There are clear criteria for what is stalling on the edge, for what is stalling when you are below the waist and for what is stalling when you drop to a single. Until you have a clear set of criteria, stalling will always be the most subjective call in wrestling and people will continue to complain and argue about what is and what is not stalling and how it should or should not be called.

[petersenkid2]

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Stalling is and should often be a situational call. For example, I think stalling should be called much differently when you have a guy who gives up an escape with 20 seconds left in the match and is holding onto a 1 point lead. If I'm the ref in that kind of situation, I am going to be extra vigilant in looking for any obvious sign of that guy trying to protect his lead. 2 stall calls in the final 20 seconds is going to be much more likely than 2 calls in the first 20 seconds. In the first 20 seconds, I'm going to allow for setups and some action outside the 10 foot circle. I am more likely to give more time to be sure that a guy is truly avoiding wrestling rather than maybe setting up a shot near the edge of the mat. In the final 20 seconds of a one point match where a guy is likely slowing down and protecting a lead, the same guy will get no such latitude. Call it BS if you will, but that's reality. And until we put rules in place that make stalling a whole lot less subjective, it will always be a situational call.

I usually agree with you Nelson, but I can't here.

When a referee recognizes stalling occurring at any time and in any position, the offender shall be warned and thereafter violations shall be penalized when stalling recurs. These provisions require the referee to penalize stalling without hesitation.

[Nelson*0.5]

I usually agree with you Nelson, but I can't here.

When a referee recognizes stalling occurring at any time and in any position, the offender shall be warned and thereafter violations shall be penalized when stalling recurs. These provisions require the referee to penalize stalling without hesitation.

I know the rule. I know the spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule. That is not how it is commonly applied. I'm telling you how it is called by virtually all referees. Stalling is more apparent when time is running out and the match is on the line. We have all watched enough big matches to know that is true. Fans see it. Coaches see it. Referees see it and call it as such. This is the hardest thing for die hard wrestling people to admit. Watch the matches at Sectionals and State the next couple weeks for what I am saying. You'll see it is true with even the best officials in the state. Stalling is called differently based on the time, the score, the trend, etc.

[inpain]

I think a push out rule like the international styles would actually cause less points to be scored by takedowns, especially in the upper weights. I agree with Nelson in that until there is adoption of rules similar to or exactly like the current NCAA stalling calls we will continue to have stalling a mainly subjective call.

I do agree with Angle that stalling should be called the same way in the 1st and 2nd period as it is in the third.

[Armadillo]

I agree with Peterson here. Why should a stall call only be subjective in the third period anyway? I see stalling in periods 1-3 on occasion

[petersenkid2]

I know the rule. I know the spirit of the rule and the letter of the rule. That is not how it is commonly applied. I'm telling you how it is called by virtually all referees. Stalling is more apparent when time is running out and the match is on the line. We have all watched enough big matches to know that is true. Fans see it. Coaches see it. Referees see it and call it as such. This is the hardest thing for die hard wrestling people to admit. Watch the matches at Sectionals and State the next couple weeks for what I am saying. You'll see it is true with even the best officials in the state. Stalling is called differently based on the time, the score, the trend, etc.

I call stalling in the first period when I see it so that it means something if it happens with 20 seconds left in the third. I don't think it's fair to the wrestlers to let them wrestle one way in the first period but require a different level of activity in the third.

I feel I owe it to the competitors to be consistent throughout the match. It is known that consistency in stalling calls from one official to another is impossible. The least I can do is be consistent from the start of the match to the finish, and from one match to the next.

Additionally, if I see one competitor being the aggressor in the first period and I call stalling when I see it, without hesitation, it encourages a more aggressive match overall by both wrestlers because they know that this ref isn't afraid to call stalling when he sees it.

Also - when I warn a wrestler for stalling early in the match, I always tell him why he's being warned.... "You have to work to turn, you can't just ride the hips", or "You cant just keep going out of bounds backwards" or "You can't play the edge like that".

Just my $.02.

[Kurt Angle]

This is the problem!

I'm going to have to disagree with you. Stalling is and should often be a situational call. For example, I think stalling should be called much differently when you have a guy who gives up an escape with 20 seconds left in the match and is holding onto a 1 point lead. If I'm the ref in that kind of situation, I am going to be extra vigilant in looking for any obvious sign of that guy trying to protect his lead. 2 stall calls in the final 20 seconds is going to be much more likely than 2 calls in the first 20 seconds. In the first 20 seconds, I'm going to allow for setups and some action outside the 10 foot circle. I am more likely to give more time to be sure that a guy is truly avoiding wrestling rather than maybe setting up a shot near the edge of the mat. In the final 20 seconds of a one point match where a guy is likely slowing down and protecting a lead, the same guy will get no such latitude. Call it BS if you will, but that's reality. And until we put rules in place that make stalling a whole lot less subjective, it will always be a situational call.

That is the problem among other things. How can the official decide that the last 20 seconds is more important than the first minute? Maybe Wrestler B excels on the mat and his game plan is to stall his butt off in the first period on his feet. If wrestler A is attacking, stalling should be called.
Common sense needs to be used and refs need to separate themselves from:
The emotion of the gym
Favoring "more elite team's wrestlers"
The coach yelling from the corner
etc...
wtc...

[Tiger Pride]

Broken Record

One point for push out. Put people on their feet when nothing is happening on the mat. Forget about stalling altogether. And please don't adopt the college stalling rules. What a mess that would be. Might be doable for high level officials at the college level, but for the average high school official, this level of specificity on stalling would be an utter nightmare.

[AntiochWhistleBlower]

New Officials

The IHSA is looking for good wrestling officials. Seems like we have a lot here with good insight(s).

[Fockerized152]

I just wish officials would call stalling at state the same way they would during the regular season. I've seen officials during meets not call a single stall call. Then they get down state and those same officials are throwing their fist up every 10 seconds. Just try and be consistent is what I ask for with it.

[inpain]

I call stalling in the first period when I see it so that it means something if it happens with 20 seconds left in the third. I don't think it's fair to the wrestlers to let them wrestle one way in the first period but require a different level of activity in the third.

I feel I owe it to the competitors to be consistent throughout the match. It is known that consistency in stalling calls from one official to another is impossible. The least I can do is be consistent from the start of the match to the finish, and from one match to the next.

Additionally, if I see one competitor being the aggressor in the first period and I call stalling when I see it, without hesitation, it encourages a more aggressive match overall by both wrestlers because they know that this ref isn't afraid to call stalling when he sees it.

Also - when I warn a wrestler for stalling early in the match, I always tell him why he's being warned.... "You have to work to turn, you can't just ride the hips", or "You cant just keep going out of bounds backwards" or "You can't play the edge like that".

Just my $.02.

If more refs would call matches like u do we would have less problems. Communicating with the wrestlers is especially important I believe.

[inpain]

I just wish officials would call stalling at state the same way they would during the regular season. I've seen officials during meets not call a single stall call. Then they get down state and those same officials are throwing their fist up every 10 seconds. Just try and be consistent is what I ask for with it.

I agree I have seen the same thing. Essentially the kids are trained all year what is acceptable and then all of a sudden the rules change.