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  #31  
Old 02-18-2020
ctdad ctdad is offline
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[QUOTE=Mencoe;561738]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestle1 View Post

Who do you suggest makes up the committee?
Doubt you get an answer.
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  #32  
Old 02-18-2020
ctdad ctdad is offline
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Originally Posted by 40 Reasons View Post
No, they should do it right. They are the best two wrestlers at the weight, my dog could seed this.

Why do people not want the best two kids in the finals? Don't they deserve to be on opposite sides?

NCAA seeds their tournament 1-33. So do the Big Tens and midlands It's a joke that IL doesn't seed there's. If Joe Williams was 8-0 as a sr should he not be seeded first? This is not hard to fix.
Please tell us what your dog comes up with for 285.
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  #33  
Old 02-18-2020
1st&10 1st&10 is offline
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Originally Posted by DNA View Post
There is no way to seed the top four that eliminates the problem of having the possible top two wretle in semifinals or quarters. If you add head-to-head, it will not always solve the problem, Because a beats b, b beats c and c beats a more often than people think during the year. Also, if the top wrestler on the state weekend dropped a match at sectionals, then someone may get him in the quarters. But remember, the wrestler dropped a match at sectionals, so he wasnt the best on that day, and doesnt deserve a seed.

As I have grown to love the sport, I have realized it doesnt matter where you are seeded. If you think you are the best, you have to beat everyone
you face in the bracket, be it the quarter, semis or finals. And I think thats the way the wrestlers see it. For the top wrestlers, its either first, or they feel they have underachieved. 3rd and second are the same thing... not first.

Who is going to deceide who is better than another? A committee? The coaches vote for seeding. I dont think so. That leaves room for drama. And the coaches will have to align by conferences to get votes for each other, which is what happens at regionals.

I am glad, That in the end, seeding doesnt matter what so ever. The wrestler that wins state is the champ no matter when they faced the other best wrestlers.

I thought the best match last year was the second time Lopez and Zaconni faced off, and it wasnt for first place. Still, two great wrestlers moving like bats out of hell for 6 minutes. It didnt matter that it wasnt the finals.

This is so off. Seeding would keep the best guys on opposite sides period. In a tighter bracket it wouldnít matter because in an abc situation as you stated above theyíre so close you canít get it wrong. Sure the parents of those kids will bitch every time but if theyíre that close then it doesnít matter where they fall.

Glad you donít care about seeing a final in the semis but I promise you it matters to that kid who busts his/her butt every day. Seed the darn tournament and we can go back to arguing about mat side weigh ins, yay.

Totally agree wrestle1
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  #34  
Old 02-18-2020
Crystal Clearly Crystal Clearly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestle1 View Post
Agree, someone will always "bitch" BUT not trying to improve the system just because someone might "bitch" also sounds dumb.

The kids should be ranked on what happened THIS YEAR not LAST YEAR. And sure there will be some disagreements but I guarantee a reasonable seeding committee can get it closer than the archaic system in place now.

Seeding the Sectional would also greatly improve the process if you're not going to mess with the state bracket and that would be easy.

I have no dog in this race, just trying to create a better tournament. I would think that would be everyone's goal.
I don't disagree with you that the system has flaws.
I have seen a couple suggestions that I like on the surface.*
The issues that could arise may not be known until they were implemented, unless they are used in another state with similar circumstances as Illinois high school wrestling.

I don't pretend to know which system would work best, but I would like to see some sort of seeding meeting to eliminate the problem of "best vs best", how that would go or how it could be implemented, I cannot begin to imagine. It's hard enough to get some coaches together to seed a regular tournament, sometimes.
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  #35  
Old 02-18-2020
eazymoney's Avatar
eazymoney eazymoney is offline
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Finals in the semis

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1st&10 View Post
This is so off. Seeding would keep the best guys on opposite sides period. In a tighter bracket it wouldnít matter because in an abc situation as you stated above theyíre so close you canít get it wrong. Sure the parents of those kids will bitch every time but if theyíre that close then it doesnít matter where they fall.

Glad you donít care about seeing a final in the semis but I promise you it matters to that kid who busts his/her butt every day. Seed the darn tournament and we can go back to arguing about mat side weigh ins, yay.

Totally agree wrestle1
So if you win in the semis you are guaranteed a state championship so they know what is at stake regardless of the round.
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  #36  
Old 02-18-2020
Mencoe Mencoe is offline
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[QUOTE=wrestle1;561691]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Clearly View Post
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say that no matter how it is done, no matter what seeding criteria is used, no matter if it is exclusively a point system, a seeding meeting amongst every coach in the state (regardless if they have a kid in the tournament) or some of the various combinations explained by others....
Someone will bitch about it.


Agree, someone will always "bitch" BUT not trying to improve the system just because someone might "bitch" also sounds dumb.

The kids should be ranked on what happened THIS YEAR not LAST YEAR. And sure there will be some disagreements but I guarantee a reasonable seeding committee can get it closer than the archaic system in place now.

Seeding the Sectional would also greatly improve the process if you're not going to mess with the state bracket and that would be easy.

I have no dog in this race, just trying to create a better tournament. I would think that would be everyone's goal.
OK you have an idea
explain how wrestlers are to "be ranked on what happened THIS YEAR"

Before you answer. Keep in mind many top wrestlers only wrestled 50% or less of the season. And many wrestlers default out of tournaments. Plus some tournaments have tough teams with some weak weight classes and vice versa. oh ya did you know a lot of wrestlers wrestle different weight classes through out the season. Good luck

Last edited by Mencoe; 02-18-2020 at 08:24 PM.
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  #37  
Old 02-18-2020
Crystal Clearly Crystal Clearly is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mencoe View Post

OK you have an idea
explain how wrestlers are to "be ranked on what happened THIS YEAR"

Before you answer. Keep in mind many top wrestlers only wrestled 50% or less of the season. And many wrestlers default out of tournaments. Plus some tournaments have tough teams with some weak weight classes and vice versa. oh ya did you know a lot of wrestlers wrestle different weight classes through out the season. Good luck
You are directing this at Wrestle1 right?
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  #38  
Old 02-18-2020
Mencoe Mencoe is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crystal Clearly View Post
You are directing this at Wrestle1 right?
yes
I didn't realize yours was attached
its not easy to base any seeding on this season. For example how does someones more wins make them better. And that's in the criteria...

the fact is the seeding is not based on whos better. It wont be unless you make a huge mess trying to it

Last edited by Mencoe; 02-18-2020 at 08:39 PM.
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  #39  
Old 02-18-2020
wrestle1 wrestle1 is offline
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[QUOTE=Mencoe;561804]
Quote:
Originally Posted by wrestle1 View Post

OK you have an idea
explain how wrestlers are to "be ranked on what happened THIS YEAR"

Before you answer. Keep in mind many top wrestlers only wrestled 50% or less of the season. And many wrestlers default out of tournaments. Plus some tournaments have tough teams with some weak weight classes and vice versa. oh ya did you know a lot of wrestlers wrestle different weight classes through out the season. Good luck
This year results only. I donít think because Rundell had a skin issue or Odom got hurt last year, they should be penalized. Matmen and IWCOA have rankings that are pretty darn close to being accurate. A committee could do it and I just canít believe they would have bad intentions. Other states fully seed bigger state tournaments, I think we can handle it.
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  #40  
Old 02-19-2020
DNA DNA is offline
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[QUOTE=wrestle1;561819]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mencoe View Post

This year results only. I donít think because Rundell had a skin issue or Odom got hurt last year, they should be penalized. Matmen and IWCOA have rankings that are pretty darn close to being accurate. A committee could do it and I just canít believe they would have bad intentions. Other states fully seed bigger state tournaments, I think we can handle it.
The rankings are for fans. There is no way to know who will be better this weekend. The seeding is a waste of time and always will be. Just because we think the top two wrestlers are in the semis, doesnt make it so. Before you think you are so correct, lets wait until after state and see.

For now, why dont you list every semi that you think should be a final. I think the only clear one is Rundell vs Ragusin. As far as 106 goes, before you jump to the conclusion that it should be another, you better watch Sammy Hayes wrestle. I am looking for to my son wrestle in the semi, and I hope in the final. It doesnt matter to me who he faces. To be champ, you have to beat them all.
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