Illinois Matmen Forums Illinois Matmen Forums

Go Back   Illinois Matmen Forums > Statewide > Illinois Matmen News

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #11  
Old 12-20-2011
myopia myopia is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pecatonica
Posts: 35
from an outsider's perspective...
it seems that IKWF is feeling threatened by competition and is lashing out like a petulant child. They should be introspective and trying to improve their product. Instead, they are attacking the competition. Historically, this is usually how bloated monopolies behave.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 12-20-2011
Jaguar's Avatar
Jaguar Jaguar is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Posts: 6,918
Quote:
Originally Posted by myopia View Post
from an outsider's perspective...
it seems that IKWF is feeling threatened by competition and is lashing out like a petulant child. They should be introspective and trying to improve their product. Instead, they are attacking the competition. Historically, this is usually how bloated monopolies behave.
Actually, the only response from the IKWF (as opposed to posters who may or may not be members of the IKWF) has been to explain rules that have been in place for years and to indicate that they will be enforced, but not in any punitive way. In fact, as I read the rules, and as I read how they will be enforced, I take it as fairly soft enforcement. I do not see them responding in any "threatened" way. I have not seen any attacks from the IKWF, unless you want to consider personal opinions that have been expressed by individual members of the IKWF as "official" IKWF statements. I think you would be wrong to consider them that way.
__________________
"Boys freestyle. Real men Greco."
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 12-20-2011
Truth is Out There's Avatar
Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by myopia View Post
from an outsider's perspective...
it seems that IKWF is feeling threatened by competition and is lashing out like a petulant child. They should be introspective and trying to improve their product. Instead, they are attacking the competition. Historically, this is usually how bloated monopolies behave.
Are the Boy Scouts of America a "bloated monopoly" too?

See, it's quite funny when you start applying business-related terms to non-profit situations.

Some people actually consider non-profits something more than just a way for businesses to avoid paying taxes.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 12-20-2011
myopia myopia is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pecatonica
Posts: 35
ikwf

@Jaguar:
After reading a little more, I agree that their enforcement policy is softer than it could be... But the fact remains, their approach is anti-competitive and monopolistic. Is their something wrong with nu-way that i don't know about? Why should ikwf care where else their customers wrestle?
The only answer that makes sense is: They're attempting to thwart competition.

Don't get me wrong. They have a right to control their product, but to do so punitively by limiting the eligibility of kids is suspect in my book. If this is how they run their organization, I'd definitely be looking for an alternative.

@Truth is out There:
If the boyscouts established a by law that I'd be ruled ineligible for participating in the local 4H club, I'd have the same response.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 12-20-2011
TappedOut TappedOut is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Plainfield
Posts: 1,668
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaguar View Post
Actually, the only response from the IKWF (as opposed to posters who may or may not be members of the IKWF) has been to explain rules that have been in place for years and to indicate that they will be enforced, but not in any punitive way. In fact, as I read the rules, and as I read how they will be enforced, I take it as fairly soft enforcement. I do not see them responding in any "threatened" way. I have not seen any attacks from the IKWF, unless you want to consider personal opinions that have been expressed by individual members of the IKWF as "official" IKWF statements. I think you would be wrong to consider them that way.

Jag, you saw the email sent out from atleast 1 sectional director......that wasn't threatening?

The IKWF did the right thing when they clarified the rule and ended all speculation and rumor.

Nuway did the right thing by moving the event...which for now, saves kids from making a choose or decision they might have regretted.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 12-20-2011
Truth is Out There's Avatar
Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by myopia View Post
@Jaguar:
After reading a little more, I agree that their enforcement policy is softer than it could be... But the fact remains, their approach is anti-competitive and monopolistic. Is their something wrong with nu-way that i don't know about? Why should ikwf care where else their customers wrestle?
The only answer that makes sense is: They're attempting to thwart competition.

Don't get me wrong. They have a right to control their product, but to do so punitively by limiting the eligibility of kids is suspect in my book. If this is how they run their organization, I'd definitely be looking for an alternative.

@Truth is out There:
If the boyscouts established a by law that I'd be ruled ineligible for participating in the local 4H club, I'd have the same response.
Your response was to ignore the question...

Talking about a true non-profit "thwarting competition" demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about. Non-profits are exempt from monopolistic practices.

Non-profits -- by law and defintion -- are allowed to provide services tax-free without a "for-profit" motive. It's typically to a community that a special intesrest group would be better able to provide those services than the government trying to organize a group and provide those services. It's essentially letting the experts give the people what they want and keeping government streamlined. It doesn't always work this way I know.

You don't have two US governments do you? Seems like we actually do sometimes. Extreme example. Still nice to have choices. Try registering for both Republican AND Democratic parties then. They disallow that.

Same as here. Try playing Pop Warner and middle school the same season. Or better yet, try playing Pop Warner and Bill George. You're not allowed to. Any group has the right to limit their member's participation in other similar intestests and all of their members have the right to choose not to align themselves with that group if they don't like it.

Please note: nowhere did I say that this is what the IKWF is doing either.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 12-20-2011
myopia myopia is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pecatonica
Posts: 35
@The truth is out there

I tried to answer the question with the 4H analogy.

Whether non-profits are motivated by bottom-line profit or not is irrelevant. They are motivated by self-interest, money, and growth. If you look at their mission statement, they are primarily a sanctioning body, and their revenue is mostly (75%) through memberships. I'd guess that local ikwf clubs felt threatened by the encroachment of nu-way clubs and ran complaints up the ikwf hierarchy. They responded by limiting the behavior of it members.

I couldn't care less what the perceived role of non-profits in society at-large is. I was simply pointing out that ikwf's response was myopic and protectionist, instead of looking at what was best for the growth of wrestling as a sport and its participation.

Last edited by myopia; 12-20-2011 at 01:33 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 12-20-2011
saveca saveca is offline
Banned
 
Join Date: Feb 2010
Posts: 279
Quote:
Originally Posted by Truth is Out There View Post
Your response was to ignore the question...

Talking about a true non-profit "thwarting competition" demonstrates you don't know what you're talking about. Non-profits are exempt from monopolistic practices.

Non-profits -- by law and defintion -- are allowed to provide services tax-free without a "for-profit" motive. It's typically to a community that a special intesrest group would be better able to provide those services than the government trying to organize a group and provide those services. It's essentially letting the experts give the people what they want and keeping government streamlined. It doesn't always work this way I know.

You don't have two US governments do you? Seems like we actually do sometimes. Extreme example. Still nice to have choices. Try registering for both Republican AND Democratic parties then. They disallow that.

Same as here. Try playing Pop Warner and middle school the same season. Or better yet, try playing Pop Warner and Bill George. You're not allowed to. Any group has the right to limit their member's participation in other similar intestests and all of their members have the right to choose not to align themselves with that group if they don't like it.

Please note: nowhere did I say that this is what the IKWF is doing either.
However you can register as an unaffiliated or independent voter. FYI many of our countries largest think tanks and lobbyist firms are non-profits. Like I have said before, I sit as head of the board on a non-profit, and have been on the boards of a few ten figure non-profits and I can tell you there is plenty of money paid in salaries, bonuses and other incentives. In addition there are current legal suits in the system at the federal level pertaining to monopolies and non-profits our corporate attorney actually believes that the IKWF is liable but we are choosing to not file suit as wrestling doesnt need anymore negative press. Below are some interesting articles on non profits such as the NCAA, a non profit land holding company, and a member based library catalogue services not for profit.

http://www.dispatch.com/content/stor...-monopoly.html

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/colle...lawsuits_N.htm

http://www.yalelawjournal.org/the-ya...springs,-inc./
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 12-20-2011
Truth is Out There's Avatar
Truth is Out There Truth is Out There is offline
Olympian
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Posts: 2,403
Quote:
Originally Posted by myopia View Post
I tried to answer the question with the 4H analogy.

Whether non-profits are motivated by bottom-line profit or not is irrelevant. They are motivated by self-interest, money, and growth. If you look at their mission statement, they are primarily a sanctioning body, and their revenue is mostly (75%) through memberships. I'd guess that local ikwf clubs felt threatened by the encroachment of nu-way clubs and ran complaints up the ikwf hierarchy. They responded by limiting the behavior of it members.

I couldn't care less what the perceived role of non-profits in society at-large is. I was simply pointing out that ikwf's response was myopic and protectionist, instead of looking at what was best for the growth of wrestling as a sport and its participation.
Protectionist? Quite possibly. Myopic? You're dreaming.

The big picture is ALL that's being addressed here.

No one is getting rich from the financial working of the IKWF -- I know, I've looked at their Form 990. People are fairly compensated for their work and there is no "bloat" whatsoever to speak of in their management and administration. Your approach has been to imply that there IS, albeit in a "read-between-lines" style -- not cool, not fair.

If the IKWF needs X members to sign up in order to cover their expenses (remember 75% of revenue is memeberships) and someone is threatening to lessen their membership numbers to X - 10% or some number less than X then that will inhibit their ability to deliver their mission because their "operating budget" will get reduced.

IF the IKWF is being protectionist -- and I am not saying they are -- it could easily be assumed that they are doing so to protect their ability to deliver their mission the way they did last year.

That's why non-profits are put together the way they are. They see the misssion as most important. Nuway sees the dollars they can gain as most important. Go to states like California which was a wreck I'm told and needing new leadership. We don't need new leadership. Nuway knows this. All they see is our numbers and the resultant drool stains on their bibs.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 12-20-2011
myopia myopia is offline
Junior Varsity
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: pecatonica
Posts: 35
thanks saveca

I'm vaguely aware of the criticisms and legal issues around the non-profits, but i didn't want to get into the larger political issues and power struggles.

I just wanted to point out that we, as wrestling fans, need to be aware that what's best for IKWF is not necessarily best for youth wrestling as a sport. We need to judge their behavior at a higher level and call them to the carpet when they appear to making self-interested decisions.
Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is On

Forum Jump


All times are GMT -5. The time now is 08:58 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.