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Old 09-14-2019
ILWrestle ILWrestle is offline
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Proposals: Seeding Dual Team & Individual Sectionals

The two proposals below are follow-ups to the “Items of General Discussion” at the IHSA Boys Wrestling Advisory Committee from April 17, 2019. The Wrestling Advisory Committee simply makes recommendations to the IHSA Board of Directors, who must vote on and approve any rule changes.

It’s come to my attention that the IHSA Board of Directors still does not recognize wrestling as a dual team sport, therefore, will not consider seeding at the Sectional level. However, for the record, the IHSA has structured, changed and tweaked a Dual Team State Series for 35 years now! Coaches… if you want to change the status quo, you’ll need to start by talking to your A.D.s or principals. Only they can influence the Board of Directors.

Proposal #1: Increase the number of Dual Team Sectional Qualifiers from one (1) team per Individual Regional Tournament to two (2) teams, and Seed the Dual Team Sectional.

Rationale:
Presently, only the highest scoring team from the Individual Regional Tournament qualifies for the Dual Team Sectional. However, due to geographic assignment constraints, the likelihood that two or more highly ranked teams getting assigned to the same Individual Regional tournament remains large, particularly in Regionals within the Chicago metro-suburban area. With this proposal, the origination of the Dual Team State Series increases twofold, meaning eight (8) teams are represented at the Dual Team Sectional rather than four. Dual Team Sectional hosts would need to provide four mats, or the number of host schools could increase from four (4) to eight (8) across each class, providing additional revenue opportunities to host schools. Most importantly, two teams from the same Regional could subsequently qualify for the Dual Team State Tournament with no change to current geographic-based IHSA Regional assignments. Seeding the Dual Team Sectional lessens the chance that the two best teams in the Sectional don’t meet again until the State Finals.

Proposed Seeding Method 1 – The four Regional Champion teams are seeded based on voting of the 36 head coaches represented at the Individual Sectional Tournament. Individual Sectional hosts could simply put a ballot in the Coaches’ packets prior to the start of the tournament that head coaches would turn in before the final round. This seeding method is consistent to what the IHSA is already doing for basketball, soccer, and baseball, etc., but is done after the Regionals are completed, instead of before.

Proposed Seeding Method 2 – We go back to scoring the Individual Sectional Tournament (easy to do in Track) and the top four Regional Champs are ultimately seeded based on their tournament placing.

Below is schematic for the Dual Team Sectional Format based on Seeding the four Regional Champs and placing the Regional Runner-ups opposite in the bracket.

DUAL TEAM SECTIONAL FORMAT - ONLY THE FOUR REGIONAL CHAMPIONS ARE SEEDED

Mats 1 & 2 or Site #1

6:00 PM Seed #1 of the Four Regional Champs
vs. Regional Runner-Up to Seed #3
(7:30 PM Winners of these two quarterfinals wrestle for STATE QUALIFER #1)
6:00 PM Regional Runner-Up to Seed #2
vs. Seed #4 of the Four Regional Champs
-----------------------------------------------

Mats 3 & 4 or Site #2

6:00 PM Seed #3 of the Four Regional Champs
vs. Regional Runner-Up to Seed #1
(7:30 PM Winners of these two quarterfinals wrestle for STATE QUALIFER #2)
6:00 PM Regional Runner-Up to Seed #4
vs. Seed #2 of the Four Regional Champs

=============

Proposal #2: Seed the IHSA Individual Sectional Tournament using the same format as the IHSA Individual State.

This recommendation presents no change from Item #4 of the General Discussion at the April 17th IHSA Wrestling Advisory Committee meeting. The four (4) Individual Regional Champions at each weight class are seeded per the same “Chart for Point” system that the IHSA uses for seeding the IHSA Individual State Tournament.

Rationale: The IHSA seeds the Individual Regional and State Tournament, but does not presently seed the Sectional, using a pre-determined schematic instead. As a result, two returning State Place winners at the same weight could easily find themselves on the same side of the bracket. The top two wrestlers should be on opposite sides of the bracket with 2nd and 3rd place finishers from the same Regional placed opposite in order to balance the strength of each bracket accordingly.
Criteria for Seeding can be exactly the same as that used for the Individual State Tournament.


=================

Coaches... if you have better proposals, I'm interested in hearing your recommendations. I hope you agree with me that something should be done. At minimum, we won't be stressing as much as we already do waiting for Regional assignments to come out knowing that even if my school is assigned to a Regional with a top ranked team, I've still got a chance to make it to state. Illinois remains one of the very few states that does not seed their Sectionals. Wrestling is an individual sport AND a dual team sport. To the IHSA Board of Directors... we don't have to be one or the other. We can both!

Mick
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Old 09-14-2019
lauden swain lauden swain is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by

[B
DUAL TEAM SECTIONAL FORMAT - ONLY THE FOUR REGIONAL CHAMPIONS ARE SEEDED[/B]

Mats 1 & 2 or Site #1

6:00 PM Seed #1 of the Four Regional Champs
vs. Regional Runner-Up to Seed #3
(7:30 PM Winners of these two quarterfinals wrestle for STATE QUALIFER #1)
6:00 PM Regional Runner-Up to Seed #2
vs. Seed #4 of the Four Regional Champs
-----------------------------------------------

Mats 3 & 4 or Site #2

6:00 PM Seed #3 of the Four Regional Champs
vs. Regional Runner-Up to Seed #1
(7:30 PM Winners of these two quarterfinals wrestle for STATE QUALIFER #2)
6:00 PM Regional Runner-Up to Seed #4
vs. Seed #2 of the Four Regional Champs

=============


Mick

Just curious as to why seed #1 of regional champs isn't bracketed against regional runner-up to seed #4?

A matter of separation I suppose. Keeping runner-ups from being placed on same side of bracket as the champion that defeated them in regionals.

I like advancing top two teams but not sure if I like the seeding protocol. I'd rather find a way that seeds all eight teams in the bracket. It's highly possible that a regional runner-up can be one of the top 2-3 teams in the sectional and should be bracketed as such.

Lauden
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Last edited by lauden swain; 4 Weeks Ago at 10:54 AM.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
SIU Dog SIU Dog is offline
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Wow, do these make sense!

Anything to get the two best teams in the Sectional to state makes sense, even if they are assigned randomly to the same Regional.

Even if the second best team is finishing second to the best team in the Regional, they don't need to be seeded second in the Dual Team Sectional, just that they are in the opposite bracket. Whatever place they are in the opposite bracket doesn't matter. No matter how you slice it, they have to win two meets to make it downstate - but you don't have to go through the team that beat you in the Regional to do it.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
OldVV OldVV is offline
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Yeah, but the best 2 dual teams may not be the best 2 tournament teams. This will make it possible for 2 teams from the same regional to qualify but it still does not guarantee that the 2 best dual teams from a sectional make it to State Duals.
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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will-I-am will-I-am is offline
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If a team is that good they should be able to qualify, if not work harder. Focus on getting better not changing rules
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Old 4 Weeks Ago
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will-I-am will-I-am is offline
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Here’s my suggestion, do away with dual state and score individual tournament. Problem solved. Then the kids don’t have to make weight and compete again after the biggest tournament of the season
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Old 3 Weeks Ago
FoxesFan FoxesFan is offline
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Making Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by ILWrestle View Post

The IHSA Board of Directors, must vote on and approve any rule changes.
. . . . .
Coaches… if you want to change the status quo, you’ll need to start by talking to your A.D.s or principals. Only they can influence the Board of Directors.

==========

[B
Mick, great post and thread. While everyone enjoys discussing the pros an cons, don't miss Mick's admonishment, above. There is a process to make change, and you need to know it to implement change. The calendar for the IHSA legislative changes begins soon. Your focus needs to be on the Town Meetings. From the IHSA Website:

HSA By-law 3.120 requires attendance by the principal or principal’s designee at an annual IHSA Town Meeting/Principals Rules Meeting.
The meetings will begin at 9:00 a.m. with a presentation and review of the current legislative proposals by the Legislative Commission Member representing your District and an IHSA staff member. Following the discussion regarding the new by-law proposals, the agenda items for the Principals Rules Meeting will be presented.
(NOTE: The Town Meetings are held at multiple locations throughout the state from November 7th to November 20th)

So, work with your AD's and Legislative Commission Members to get these proposals into the Town Meetings. The Wrestling Advisory Committee Members should also be able to influence the Town Meeting Agendas.

I love the team aspect of Wrestling, and believe it grows interest. Good Luck.
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  #8  
Old 3 Weeks Ago
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Blonjuan44 Blonjuan44 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by will-I-am View Post
Here’s my suggestion, do away with dual state and score individual tournament. Problem solved. Then the kids don’t have to make weight and compete again after the biggest tournament of the season
If its good enough for the NCAA, I think that is how they do it.
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